Hard times for everyone

[BartBurk]

As I watch the back and forth between Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, etc. in this forum, I wonder if we really see what’s happening in the real world. For almost 30 years it seems as if various stripes of Christians have had their fingers stuck in the dike keeping the flood at bay. I am originally from Iowa and spent several years in Cedar Rapids. Last week the first three homes I lived in in Cedar Rapids were under water. Cedar Rapids was prepared for a 20 foot crest, but the 32 foot crest overwhelmed it.

It seems to me we are in the same position right now. We’ve been able to protect marriage, chip away at abortion rights, espouse a Christian response to poverty, war, etc., but perhaps we are entering a time when the flood is about to overwhelm us. It won’t matter whether we are conservative Catholics, evangelicals, Mormons, etc. Anyone who defends Christian values will be on the defensive at a time when most people have accepted a world view in which everything is permissable. In Canada priests are getting brought in front of the “Human Rights Commission” for taking a Biblical position on homosexuality. One author is being brought before the same body for writing things critical of Islamic Jihad.

So what in the end is more important for those who are attempting to follow Christ? Are theological arguments more important than defending values? Are we reaching the point that if we don’t all hang together we will all hang separately? Does our work to convert other Christians to our brand of Christianity get in the way of defending the traditional values we hold dear? Or are the Christian traditions of others than our own so damning that we are willing to allow the flood of secular humanism to overwhelm us while we are fighting each other?

At the rate we are going I can’t see Christian values surviving in the developed world without direct divine intervention. I can imagine 90 percent of this generation of youth in Europe and the United States simply rejecting Christian values altogether. It doesn’t seem to matter where I look – only a small minority of youth of any religious background seems to be ready to pick up the torch. Many of those who do are impressive, but they seem to be even a smaller minority than they were even 10 years ago.

I hope I’m wrong, but it seems to me five years from now we could see the same thing happening in the U.S. that we are seeing happen in Canada today.

 

[Tonks40]

I agree with you. I’m fearful of what our society is heading towards. The lack of Christian values and their attacks on such makes the call to stand up evermoreso important.

We need to pray…and to not be silent.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have one thing to say.
when Noah was building the Ark, people were doing their own thing, Noah warned them, but they did not listen. we know what happened then.
Moses was forced to allow divorce due to the insistence of the people.

Our time is no different. these things will happen no matter what we do. but those who support the sinfull ways of man will be accounted for it. this is my consolation. that God still in charge of the World.

I see few churches supporting gays rights. this should tell us something.

we need to keep on praying for ourselves and for our children and family. that Our God protects us from these abominations until the end.

The CC has spoke to the world against the abominations to the Our Lord, people continue to ignore her warnings. just like the times of Noah.

Perhaps we should pray to Our Lord to rise up and His enemies be scattered. Amen.

 

[Swan]

The problem is that none of these things is new. They’ve always gone on. But if you look back at periods of history where a strict moral code was enforced you’ll generally find that the people who engaged in these behaviors you find so distasteful (homosexuality, sex before marriage, babies born out of wedlock, divorce, etc.) were generally shunned, persecuted discriminated against, and, in extreme cases, murdered. All of these things were done in the name of “God”, yet I, in my personal understanding of God (admit I could be wrong on this), is that God loves us all unconditionally. We’re all sinners, all make mistakes. Jesus didn’t make anyone wear a scarlet letter, yet this seems to be the type of thing that many folks on this forum advocate.

Then there is the fact that this is a secular society, a pluralistic society, which by its very nature must protect the rights of all, regardless of their religious beliefs and the morality they entail (it should go without saying that these rights become limited at the point where they interfere on the rights of others. I’m not talking about the freedom to be a serial killer).

 

[elvisman]

Jesus states explicitly in Matt. 16:17-19 the following:

**Jesus said to him in reply, *"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. ***
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it."
That gives me great comfort. It should give is ALL comfort.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

The problem is that none of these things is new. They’ve always gone on. But if you look back at periods of history where a strict moral code was enforced you’ll generally find that the people who engaged in these behaviors you find so distasteful (homosexuality, sex before marriage, babies born out of wedlock, divorce, etc.) were generally shunned, persecuted discriminated against, and, in extreme cases, murdered. All of these things were done in the name of “God”, yet I, in my personal understanding of God (admit I could be wrong on this), is that God loves us all unconditionally. We’re all sinners, all make mistakes. Jesus didn’t make anyone wear a scarlet letter, yet this seems to be the type of thing that many folks on this forum advocate.

Then there is the fact that this is a secular society, a pluralistic society, which by its very nature must protect the rights of all, regardless of their religious beliefs and the morality they entail (it should go without saying that these rights become limited at the point where they interfere on the rights of others. I’m not talking about the freedom to be a serial killer).

What about the freedom of Christians to espouse their views?

I don’t think anyone is talking about America having enacted 613 commandments for all people to follow. The OP is talking about our country losing its Christian values and Christians being brought before government officials to answer for their right to express their opinion.

There’s a big difference between God loving people and Him giving us moral standards to live by. He expects us to live up to them and if we fail to live by them He understands and is ready to forgive us.

This world is not about everybody doing as they please with no consequences for their immoral behavior. God has given us universal moral laws to live by. And that’s nothing that society or governments or individuals can get away with and not be held accountable for.

Peace…

MW

 

[Valke2]

I have one thing to say.
when Noah was building the Ark, people were doing their own thing, Noah warned them, but they did not listen. we know what happened then.

Actually, I doin’t think there is anything in Genesis to suggest that Noah warned them. In fact, Moses does not even speak until after the flood.

Moses was forced to allow divorce due to the insistence of the people.

Where did the people insist on the right to divorce? I don’t recall reading anything that suggested Moses reluctantly allowed divorce (or that law of divorce was not from God).

I see few churches supporting gays rights. this should tell us something.

what?

 

[exoflare]

Where did the people insist on the right to divorce? I don’t recall reading anything that suggested Moses reluctantly allowed divorce (or that law of divorce was not from God).

This is the way Jesus explained Moses’ law of divorce. I don’t think you can find it explicitly mentioned in the Old Testament. It’s not that the allowance for divorce was “not from God”, but it just wasn’t Gods final plan for mankind as a whole.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Actually, I doin’t think there is anything in Genesis to suggest that Noah warned them. In fact, Moses does not even speak until after the flood.

when Noah built the Ark was because of the flood that would come and Noah told the people to get in did he not?

Where did the people insist on the right to divorce? I don’t recall reading anything that suggested Moses reluctantly allowed divorce (or that law of divorce was not from God).

Jesus said when asked about marriage. Moses allowed the divorce because of the hardness of your hearts but I tell you whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. What God has joined together let no man separates.

what?

may be you need to get informed about this.

 

[Valke2]

when Noah built the Ark was because of the flood that would come and Noah told the people to get in did he not?

No. He did not. He perhaps said something to his family but certainly there is nothing in the story that states he warned the people. He doesn’t utter a single recorded word while he is building the ark.

 

[wisdomseeker]

No. He did not. He perhaps said something to his family but certainly there is nothing in the story that states he warned the people. He doesn’t utter a single recorded word while he is building the ark.

i cant remember exactly where i read this. but i will look for it.

:byzsoc: :knight1:

 

[Valke2]

Perhaps because Noah is referred to as a Preacher in Jerimiah, one might conclude that he did speak to people. But that’s an assumption and is not set forth in the story.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Perhaps because Noah is referred to as a Preacher in Jerimiah, one might conclude that he did speak to people. But that’s an assumption and is not set forth in the story.

even so. it only make sense that he would warn the people if he was a preacher. he would not be a preacher only to his family, would he?

Peace!