Hard to respect Mormonism

[TexanKnight]

The ex-Mormons have the most vitriolic hatred against Mormons, quite like how ex-Catholics disparage the Catholic Church more than anyone else.

What I’ve noticed is that a majority of the time, embittered ex-Mormons have to express their hatred and so open threads* ad infinitum* on Mormonism.

I’m opposed to Mormonism because I also feel its a false religion, but all these threads on Mormonism make me very sympathetic to Mormons.

Wow. I am not sure what you are talking about.

Anyone who leaves the LDS Church is going to feel more cheated and mislead than someone who leaves Baptists or Lutherans, (for example)…but I have seen no hatred here. Perhaps you choose to see what does not exist.

 

[Seira]

Wow. I am not sure what you are talking about.

Anyone who leaves the LDS Church is going to feel more cheated and mislead than someone who leaves Baptists or Lutherans, (for example)…but I have seen no hatred here. Perhaps you choose to see what does not exist.

Really? Have you ever known any ex-Catholics? There are some that are rather indifferent or some that just kinda fell out of it. However, there are some that are passionately anti-Catholic Church. I’ve personally known plenty. Perhaps you choose not to see what does indeed exist.

 

[Jerusha]

there are some that are passionately anti-Catholic Church. I’ve personally known plenty.

From what I have seen and heard of ex-Catholics who are anti-Catholic, their description of the Catholic Church is a caricature of the one I know. It resembles Mormonism more than it resembles Catholicism.

 

[TexanKnight]

Really? Have you ever known any ex-Catholics? There are some that are rather indifferent or some that just kinda fell out of it. However, there are some that are passionately anti-Catholic Church. I’ve personally known plenty. Perhaps you choose not to see what does indeed exist.

Yes, I have kn own quite a few. And I have never seen what I have seen with EX-LDS.

The reason is simple…one usually has to give up quite a bit to be LDS. When I became LDS, my girlfriend left me and my parents, for a time, disowned me. All because I was joining a cult. You buy it…hook line and sinker. If you are like me, you give up everything and serve a mission.

When you realize it is all a lie…you feel deceived, cheated and you gave up everything…for NOTHING.

It is a hard pill to swallow. It is not like that leaving your protestant denomonation, or even your Catholic Church.

Yes, at first I was really angry. But, I left it in 1989 and a lot has passed. I no longer feel anger or even dislike. I simply feel the need to warn others of the danger.

 

[Neofight]

When my faith was weak, I too was preoccupied with the weaknesses in the faith of others instead of concentrating on strengthening my own!

 

[BListon]

Given all these anti-Mormon threads here, I’m not really sure why people then complain that Catholics are persecuted in America.

I agree. Perhaps we are getting a taste of our own medicine. We must not be so quick to judge others. I can’t help but think of the story in the Bible where the woman was about to get stoned to death, and Jesus came along and told them “let he among you who lives without sin cast the first stone at her.”

 

[Jerusha]

Jesus came along and told them “let he among you who lives without sin cast the first stone at her.”

There are some things we can learn from a study of Mormonism.

Prosperity theology, extreme homophobia, pressuring all to marry, extreme political conservatism, racism, subjugation of women, judgmental attitudes, obsession with sexual sin, whitewashing negative aspects of our history, shunning, downgrading the rights of workers, associating only with Catholics, all do not belong in Catholicism.

Yet, they are present among some Catholics, and they think they are being good Catholics.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I just met a wonderful person who happens to be Mormon. She is intelligent, wise and logical. What I can’t reconcile is how anyone can be Mormon, knowing the origins (which are filled with disturbing acts) and beliefs (many of which have been proven to be false). I guess the same could be said of Islam but that religion preys on the hopeless, Mormons are routinely affluent. Doesn’t logic mean anything? If I were raised Mormon, I would be angry at the religion once I learned they were glossing over these issues. Strange how they are embarrassed by their leaders teachings isn’t it? I know our religion has many horrible acts in our history, but the difference is, they were acts of men, not Jesus.

JoeNJ, I had an Angry period, where I couldn’t be around my family without feeling nothing but disgust about how incredibly gullible and stupid they were. They are all, Mormons. I wanted to grab them all and shake the stupidity out of them.

Not such a good way to feel about the ones who you love,no? I had to let it go, or let them go. I just love them for who they are, pray for them and trust that God holds them.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I think we’re jealous of the Mormons - their sense of community and their support for families, and so we do some research and find things that make us go, “Ick!”

But we still wish our parish communities were as alive and active.

I think that’s why there are so many threads on the LDS.

Well I ended up on things LDS because of two sets of arrogant pugnacious missionaries who basically told me what I believe and what kind of person I was because of my beliefs. Encounters that left me pale and trembling, but in the end, like encounters with other proselytizers (8 months of truly ugly treatment in high school) it made me turn to and learn about my faith. Finding in it all the joy, hope, and delight that I felt all along but had no words to articulate. As for the lovely qualities attributed to the LDS, in my real life the only “confirmed” LDS I’ve met are those missionaries. On line though, I’ve read the postings of quite a few LDS here and on other boards, the results are mixed, though generally they don’t reflect as well on the LDS as people describe their personal interactions with LDS members. I’d bet people would feel the same way about their interactions with Catholics here in many cases.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I really feel bad for the Mormons of this forum - the ones that are left, anyway - because they are always the target here. The reason you see Mormonism as illogical and stupid and impossible for anyone to understand is because you look at it through one lens (specifically yours, Catholic-oriented) and simply do not see it through the other lenses there are out there.

You say there are a lot of points that make Mormonism completely bogus. That may be, but how many people say the same thing about the Catholic Church? How many people can easily say that the practice of indulgences discredits the Church? People say the same about Purgatory. And many others say that the Catholic Church is influenced by paganism and claim they have “irrefutable” evidence to sustain that.

What’s the average Catholic response to that? Either to ignore it or to give an explanation on why that issue is either misunderstood or factually incorrect. Why would the Mormons act any differently?

Given all these anti-Mormon threads here, I’m not really sure why people then complain that Catholics are persecuted in America.

A Catholic lens? How about an accurate Historic lens which then gives way to archaelology? There is my issue.

Unless your speaking to someone specific I’d say your generalization is a very large assumption. The average Catholic response, don’t know, but heres mine.

Obviously you need to work out your own dilemma with the Catholic Church to start.

Here allow me to let help you along.

Obviously some people will do as they please anyway to seek what they conceived in their perfect mind as “correct” according to their conscious. Our prayers are with them.

And no Fab, its Love Your Neighbor. Sometimes this includes reality therapy. Here’s the difference, you can’t prove Purgatory doesn’t exit, actually today this appears very much the opposite. You can’t prove the IC didn’t happen, actually this appears very much the opposite. Can you prove Peters Chair doesn’t hold the Key to the Kingdom, very much the opposite in all these realities. Guess that would make the “indulgence” just fine with God then. You have evidence otherwise, aside from the usual noise here at CAF, like about what John Doe said that nobody really cares about?

Id say everyone else ought worry about “they” are doing. You might become the next… Use To Be, as we see happening daily in this ever changing US of A. Thus I have every resaon to believe what was and is will continue in Catholicism. Vatican, still their 2000 years later. Biblically speaking against every evil manifested on earth it has “prevailed”. Not so for these other over night sensations who quickly become one-hit wonders… Use to Be’s. And for sure the USA is not “infallible” though they would like to believe this drival. Every temporal empire ever constructed though this theory is gone.

Now heres the point, we can prove No Horse’s were in North America 4-6AD. There is no arguement through archaeology. Where’s the chariots, shields. sword etc etc from this fantasy battle? We can prove Joe Smith was a common criminal its factual, Gods Prophets are not murderous, lying, swindling, adultrous criminals, who happen to start a church. Prophets correctly point men back to the Narrow Path etc etc etc. Next of all in theology private prophecy has never superceeded the Apostolic Church, Its the Apostles first. They hold the succession, should one accept it or reject it.

This is theology not a court of law. we don’t need evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, we only need a preponderance of evidence. An I do believe it exists. For the Catholic Church and against the Mormon church.

And personally I never take part in Mormon debates threads simple because there is no answer to the history or archaeology questions.

 

[GaryTaylor]

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa6/witchbrow/Decorated images/3811055786_b51d292cde.jpg

I thought the same thing when I read your post.

 

[Angelina5]

I really feel bad for the Mormons of this forum - the ones that are left, anyway - because they are always the target here. The reason you see Mormonism as illogical and stupid and impossible for anyone to understand is because you look at it through one lens (specifically yours, Catholic-oriented) and simply do not see it through the other lenses there are out there.

You say there are a lot of points that make Mormonism completely bogus. That may be, but how many people say the same thing about the Catholic Church? How many people can easily say that the practice of indulgences discredits the Church? People say the same about Purgatory. And many others say that the Catholic Church is influenced by paganism and claim they have “irrefutable” evidence to sustain that.

What’s the average Catholic response to that? Either to ignore it or to give an explanation on why that issue is either misunderstood or factually incorrect. Why would the Mormons act any differently?

Given all these anti-Mormon threads here, I’m not really sure why people then complain that Catholics are persecuted in America.

I was LDS for ten years. And while I try to be respectful & Christ-like towards Mormonism, it remains challenging not to be angry at the lies, deceitful & hidden historical fallacies, and the un-Christian facets of Mormonism. Brigham Young taught that the Blood of Christ was not sufficient for certain sins, see “Blood Atonement” doctrine. Yet, he is respected today as an Apostle & Prophet of Jesus Christ and that’s upsetting. The false prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Masonry origins of the supposed “Holy Temple”. Most LDS people don’t know about many damning elements of their faith. The majority of them remains a very kind-hearted, charitable people. But the lies in the name of my Savior Jesus Christ do tend to make me want to be angry.

 

[joeNJ]

I really feel bad for the Mormons of this forum - the ones that are left, anyway - because they are always the target here. The reason you see Mormonism as illogical and stupid and impossible for anyone to understand is because you look at it through one lens (specifically yours, Catholic-oriented) and simply do not see it through the other lenses there are out there.

You say there are a lot of points that make Mormonism completely bogus. That may be, but how many people say the same thing about the Catholic Church? How many people can easily say that the practice of indulgences discredits the Church? People say the same about Purgatory. And many others say that the Catholic Church is influenced by paganism and claim they have “irrefutable” evidence to sustain that.

What’s the average Catholic response to that? Either to ignore it or to give an explanation on why that issue is either misunderstood or factually incorrect. Why would the Mormons act any differently?

Given all these anti-Mormon threads here, I’m not really sure why people then complain that Catholics are persecuted in America.

While I agree I must be looking at this through a “Catholic Lens”, I realize the life of Jesus was so far above the surrounding attitudes of the times and there is not one instance of scandal in his life, unlike Joseph Smith. I know the teachings of family values is wonderful, but following Joseph Smith and his teachings? I totally get following the good values, but some of the other teachings? They are just plain bizarre!

 

[Pepband_Mom]

I think we’re jealous of the Mormons - their sense of community and their support for families, and so we do some research and find things that make us go, “Ick!”

But we still wish our parish communities were as alive and active.

I think that’s why there are so many threads on the LDS.

That “sense of community” is not what you think.

Aren’t LDS mandated to go to various meetings every week: Mutual, Fireside, Primary, Sacrament & hold “Family Home Evenings” on & on; if you no show or suspend activities, they send people over to YOUR HOUSE to see what the matter is & report back to the “bishop”. They keep a good eye on people & if you are there on a weekly basis, wouldn’t you feel the strong, mandatory tug to part with 10% of your gross income into their clutches. You’re not a “temple worthy” Mormon without giving them every red cent they impose on you to give in order to build the man-made kingdom of Smith & Young?

So Lds judge one’s “worthiness” -
As long as you part with the greenbacks, you’re “worthy”
you avoid alcohol (St Paul said wine is good for your stomach)
coffee & tea (which are beneficial to one’s health)
& then you’re ok to baptize dead people (who have already been dead & judged?*!)
& attend “sacred” events parodies that attack Christians & wear pseudo Masonic garb in secret “temple” ceremonies :hypno:

See book “What’s Going On In There?”

I walked into a ward for a talk on a subject I had studied in college one cold snowy Saturday at the invitation of a co worker. The speaker approached ME at the break. Why? I was the only person out of several hundred women wearing jeans & NOT WEARING A DRESS & she KNEW I wasn’t LDS so marched right up to me. Astonishing.

I was very distressed when I heard later in talk her mention of “Mother God” Boy, did that EVER CREEP me out - I nearly ran out right there & should have as it so disturbed my spirit I almost couldn’t stomach that piece of theology, that made me literally dizzy.

Now that I think about it, the whole thing reminds me of the movie “The Stepford Wives” :juggle: ; a cookie cutter, mandatory compulsion, a conformity to be the ideal LDS woman complete with pioneer grit & “pioneer spirit” they’re so big on & in the end seems problematic: stressful, feigned; a contrived ideal to be sure. That’s NOT ME - I COULDN’T, WOULDN’T do it.

Like I said, that “sense of community” is NOT what you think it is.

 

[truthsave]

Being christians is not easy. Following Jesus is not easy. This is the major poit.
Chrsitianity is a religion of being not doing. But this simple statement is difficult for many of us since for common man doing is being. What Jesus said about fasting, about sabath day, about family about our life about marriage about money about how we should behave with who still something from us or with who is violent with us? What we do from His word? We just try to save us and His teaching at the same time. But He said we cannot serve two masters at the same time!
Of course is not easy. At the best of our effort we would feel unworthy. And this is the way most of saint felt.
Mormonism is doing. Doing is a work that have to be paid.
Is almost impossible to find a mormon that does what he has been asked that feels unworthy.
Being worthy is an extremely comfortable feeling.

The message of Christ is not so we feel confortable in this world.
He said to whom he would follow Him that He does not have a place to be confortable even though animals have this place He and His follower doesn’t have it.

When we get mad at mormons we don’t get mad at them but at their doctrine that is so easily a fraud that it is difficult to accept that for the “hell” of a well being and well feeling they make thing that are in the name of Satan in the name of God.

As with most of the doctrinal sects with christian denomination their goal is just to take people out from the right doctrine that comes only from direct apostolic succession in the name of good humanity.
They use the confusion of the suggestion of many faulses analogies that not prepared people generally tend to do.
This is the kind: a criminal is in a spiritual fight and asks the Lord to protect him from his weakness but he keep on falling in his weakness even when trying doing his best.
Another men is a good men. He follows all the society rules and has a good family. He is not in a struggle just pray since praying is good since it is another good thing to do among the other good things he does.

For outside spectator the criminal is the product of a bad faith or doctrine, the second of a good one. At least this is whatmormons and many sects thinks.
What about Jesus? Just read the parabole of the Publican and Pharisean.

A lot of people want a religion for a better material and interational life.
A religion that can have good output. A religion that “works” for what they want.

People want good people.They don’t want to be tested to be aware just not to be Christian at all even though they profess this belif.
.

 

[Bran_Stark]

The fundamental fault of Mormonism is the fundamental fault of many protestant heresies. It teaches that Christ was too weak to keep His Church from error. If so, then He was most certainly too weak to save any of us.

I don’t think that’s a very fair assessment; there’s a huge difference between Protestants “reforming” the Church and Mormons “restoring” her.

 

[Jerusha]

I don’t think that’s a very fair assessment; there’s a huge difference between Protestants “reforming” the Church and Mormons “restoring” her.

There is a misconception among some Catholics that all Protestants are Restorationists. Many Protestants have great respect for the 1500 years of Catholicism before the split. It isn’t our fault that illiteracy ran rampant and the printing press was developed so late.

And with those things, plus the Bubonic Plague and other factors, the Church was swimming in imperfection.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t think that’s a very fair assessment; there’s a huge difference between Protestants “reforming” the Church and Mormons “restoring” her.

They are both based on the idea that Christ’s Church failed. They only differ as to when. Restorationists as early a Jesus’ death, Reformationists sometime after the first council of Ephesus.

 

[Janderich]

Why is it hard to respect Mormonism? Are our believes so different that we can’t even be respected? We worship God. We know that we are only saved through Christ’s atonement. We try our best to follow Christ’s teachings. This is what we preach, this is what concerns us. I respect all men be they Catholic, Lutheran, Baptists, or whatever for there efforts to follow the Master.

On this site Ex-Mormon’s in many instances take fringe statements and parade them as core doctrine. They exaggerate or twist our beliefs into something I hardly recognize. If I were a Catholic with little understanding of Mormonism I would not have a clear picture after reading these types of threads. Perhaps I would also say I don’t respect Mormons.

I have found that almost whatever I say is met with disagreement and suspicion. Of course no one need agree with all I say but doesn’t someone at least agree that as Carlyle once said of Paganism, “That there was a kind of fact at the heart of them; that they too were not mendacious and distracted, but in their own poor way true and sane!” Until there is at least some respect for what makes a person tick there can be no real dialog.

Why do I hear so many posters say that Mormon’s are good people but then comment on how impossible, incredibly wrong and in some cases even satanic our beliefs are. Can’t it be seen that beliefs make the man? Hence a good person’s beliefs cannot be all bad.

I came here seeking to clarify our beliefs and perhaps understand more of what is at the heart of a practicing Catholic. It’s been hard in both respects.

Sorry if this comes off as a bit of a rant. I do not mean to direct to anyone specifically. It has simply been very difficult to share thoughts. In some ways I believe followers of Christ are becoming a rare breed. All the more precious then to reach across the table and understand.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Janderich, I can see where you are coming from, and realize there is cause for frustration. I think that frustration is on both “sides”.

For Catholics in particular, there is a 2000 year history of defending the faith against error. Mormonism is, in our eyes, just one more error in a long line of errors. More particular to Mormonism is the recasting of Christian teaching into not something it was never meant to be.

Good and bad people exist everywhere. There is a tendency to reduce faith to “being nice”, but it is much more than that. Faith is not required to live a good life, be a good person or live ethically. I have a husband, and good friends who are completely Godless. One hundred percent atheists. Including one who thinks Jesus had a lot of nice ideas that are good to emulate. I wouldn’t call an atheist a Christian, but one of your Mormon sisters that used to post here, told me she would. (I found that a reduction to absurdity.)

All that being said, there was a time the Apostles came to Jesus, complaining that others were going about healing in His name.they wanted Him to do something about it. If you will recall, He told them, they weren’t against Him.

I view Mormons in the same way, but at the same time as Catholics, we have an obligation to our faith, of which Mormonism is in complete opposition to. Actively proselyting Catholics. Recasting Christian terms with new meaning. Sowing confusion among the faithful. Preying on those who are weak of faith, and instead of seeking to strengthen them in their faith, seeking to remove them from it.

I don’t in any way view these as barriers to working together in charitable acts, or even political cause where our beliefs and practices align. But in matters of faith, we are at opposite ends.

We profess Christ’s Church has never failed.
You profess that it has.

It is a difference that is impossible to ignore.