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SlightlyConfused
Guest
Many Protestant denominations place the Catholic church as the Harlot of Babylon. How plausible could this be? And if it’s false, why is it false?
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po18guy
Well-known member
Is Christ a liar? He founded a Church and gave a divine promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against her. He did not say that it would indeed fail and that European men waving bibles would restore the church.
The assertion is false since it appeared nowhere on earth until 16th century Europe. Demand proof from the accusers.
The assertion is false since it appeared nowhere on earth until 16th century Europe. Demand proof from the accusers.
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bobperk
Guest
Perhaps very fundamentalist Protestants in the US but not worldwide.
Not plausible at all. None of the early Church Fathers held this view. And most who hold this view take the Book of Revelation as completely future prophecy without any actual historical background.
Traditional thought holds the whore of Babylon to be Jerusalem. Some hold it to be the Roman Empire. But Jerusalem fits better.
Not plausible at all. None of the early Church Fathers held this view. And most who hold this view take the Book of Revelation as completely future prophecy without any actual historical background.
Traditional thought holds the whore of Babylon to be Jerusalem. Some hold it to be the Roman Empire. But Jerusalem fits better.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
‘In her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and all who have been slain on the earth.’ - Rev 18:24
Tell your Protestant friends Old Testament prophets could not have been killed by the Catholic Church. Enough said.
Tell your Protestant friends Old Testament prophets could not have been killed by the Catholic Church. Enough said.
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SlightlyConfused
Guest
Well, the Vatican is built on a hill and there’s theories that Babylon is the ancient name for rome.
Theres also the idea that the Harlot wears Purple and Scarlet and numerous other accusations. I try not to believe it but what place in Jerusalem could it,be referring to?
Theres also the idea that the Harlot wears Purple and Scarlet and numerous other accusations. I try not to believe it but what place in Jerusalem could it,be referring to?
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Fauken
Guest
It’s seven hills. And so is Jerusalem.
Jesus also wore purple during His Passion. Purple does not a Harlot make.
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stpurl
Guest
Implausible. If one argues that the WOB is part of Scriptural teaching, may one remind the questioner exactly what group GAVE the canon of Scripture to the world?
I can just imagine people like St. Jerome saying, "Hey guys, look here, in Rev. it says that the WOB is responsible for the deaths of saints and prophets. You know, we were pretty harsh on backsliders once Constantine ‘made us’. and once EVERYBODY can read, they’ll realize we’re the WOB. . .so maybe we better take out this passage and put in something about unicorns. Everybody loves unicorns. "
I can just imagine people like St. Jerome saying, "Hey guys, look here, in Rev. it says that the WOB is responsible for the deaths of saints and prophets. You know, we were pretty harsh on backsliders once Constantine ‘made us’. and once EVERYBODY can read, they’ll realize we’re the WOB. . .so maybe we better take out this passage and put in something about unicorns. Everybody loves unicorns. "
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SlightlyConfused
Guest
Hmmm…ok. That makes sense. It saddens me a little how people could speak so maliciously about our faith. Then again, people have been through worse.
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Zaccheus
Guest
Where does this come from? Babylon was an empire that fell before Rome gained any power.
Purple and scarlet have been the colors of kings for thousands of years. It’s not like the Church is the only institution that used those colors.
In fact the reason the Harlot is described as wearing purple and scarlet is because those are the colors of kings.
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Fauken
Guest
But we’re Catholic! We hate knowledge and letting people read the Bible! Then they’ll know the TRUTH! And we wouldn’t want that, now would we?
No problem! And yes, it is sad. Any perversion of truth is sad.
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Irishmom2
Guest
IF it is false?
Since you brought it up, why don’t you start? You tell us why many Protestant denominations say that. Then maybe someone can address your real question.
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bobperk
Guest
One must ask, why would the Catholic Church place Revelation in the Bible, study and comment on it for centuries, but then choose to wear the very same colors as the harlot, if the harlot were indeed the Catholic Church? It makes no sense.
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fredystairs
Guest
Dear @SlightlyConfused
During and after the Protestant Revolt, the Protestants slung much mud at the Church, accusing her of many terrible things in order to discredit her. While some of the accusations were true, that the Church is the Harlot is false. And the Church will survive to the end, we have Christ’s promise of that.
Here is a Catholic Answers tract that explains why the Church is not the Harlot.
Blessings
During and after the Protestant Revolt, the Protestants slung much mud at the Church, accusing her of many terrible things in order to discredit her. While some of the accusations were true, that the Church is the Harlot is false. And the Church will survive to the end, we have Christ’s promise of that.
Here is a Catholic Answers tract that explains why the Church is not the Harlot.
Blessings
po18guy
Well-known member
Not inside the 7 hills area that Rome was when the Apocalypse was written.
This is a hate-filled post-reformation claim - made in a feeble attempt to justify division in the Body of Christ.
It is so utterly ludicrous as to be laughable.
All of this man-made bilge makes Jesus a liar.
Let us ponder that one…
This is a hate-filled post-reformation claim - made in a feeble attempt to justify division in the Body of Christ.
It is so utterly ludicrous as to be laughable.
All of this man-made bilge makes Jesus a liar.
Let us ponder that one…
po18guy
Well-known member
And, our Lord condemned the Pharisees and teachers of the law, seeing that their fathers killed the prophets - in Jerusalem!
What I find shocking is the sometimes utter ignorance of scripture that “bible” Christians display.
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jcrichton
Guest
Jesus made it clear that not even the gates of hades would prevail against the Church; anyone who teaches differently teaches error or corrects Christ’s error (get it?).
Those who reject the Church’s Authority must construct tents of “Church apostasy” (which runs the gambit from the true church being forced underground to true Christians surviving through 1500 of persecution, in secret, and being liberated (both states) by Luther and his minions), it must ignore that Jesus stated that He would remain with the Church till the end of times, it must also ignore that Jesus stated that He would Send the other Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, to abide with and in the Church, it must reject Apostolic Succession (which includes Apostolic Teaching and all of the Church history, including the Unfolding of the Truth and the organization of the Body of Christ through Practice and Doctrine). Finally, it must set itself up as the “valid”/“true” church of Christ/God (a feat that over 30 thousand denominations claim).
Further proof? What is Jesus Command that we splinter His Body or that we Love and be one in Him as He is One in the Father?
Then there’s the reality of text and content:
Have you ever wonder why only the Church has remained steadfast against pornography, abortion, contraception, adultery, fornication, divorce, homosexuality while other entities have lapped up everything that society deems as “correct” and “just?”
Did you know that the only thing that actually prevents stds and unwanted pregnancies is abstinence and that the Church has been removed from any program that would assist the nations of the world im battling these because she Teaches abstinence, fidelity, and monogamy?
While it is true that contraception may somewhat reduce risks, it is also true that the false “safe-sex” that is promoted through its use has increased promiscuity and high-risk sex–leading to the various stds, pregnancy, and abortion epidemics with the age gaps widening to engulf both older and younger citizens who view “safe sex” as as a fashionable statement.
Maran atha!
Angel
Those who reject the Church’s Authority must construct tents of “Church apostasy” (which runs the gambit from the true church being forced underground to true Christians surviving through 1500 of persecution, in secret, and being liberated (both states) by Luther and his minions), it must ignore that Jesus stated that He would remain with the Church till the end of times, it must also ignore that Jesus stated that He would Send the other Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, to abide with and in the Church, it must reject Apostolic Succession (which includes Apostolic Teaching and all of the Church history, including the Unfolding of the Truth and the organization of the Body of Christ through Practice and Doctrine). Finally, it must set itself up as the “valid”/“true” church of Christ/God (a feat that over 30 thousand denominations claim).
Further proof? What is Jesus Command that we splinter His Body or that we Love and be one in Him as He is One in the Father?
Then there’s the reality of text and content:
While the Catholic Church has Taught that contraception, divorce and remarriage, adultery, fornication, abortion, and homosexuality are wrong, outside of the Church there’s a great divide as “Christians” support all sorts of unions and activities which leads one to know that the source of fornications and abominations on earth are fully supported through the guise of “liberty” or “justice” or “mercy” or “love/kindness/generosity.”
Have you ever wonder why it is that the March for life is seldom televised, as the World Youth Day?
Have you ever wonder why only the Church has remained steadfast against pornography, abortion, contraception, adultery, fornication, divorce, homosexuality while other entities have lapped up everything that society deems as “correct” and “just?”
Did you know that the only thing that actually prevents stds and unwanted pregnancies is abstinence and that the Church has been removed from any program that would assist the nations of the world im battling these because she Teaches abstinence, fidelity, and monogamy?
While it is true that contraception may somewhat reduce risks, it is also true that the false “safe-sex” that is promoted through its use has increased promiscuity and high-risk sex–leading to the various stds, pregnancy, and abortion epidemics with the age gaps widening to engulf both older and younger citizens who view “safe sex” as as a fashionable statement.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Do you know what the colors purple and scarlet mean?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
Ignorance and anti-Catholic propaganda still goes a long long way today (this active propaganda began when the printing press was first invented–not being able to raze the Catholic Church out of existence an active anti-Catholic tract mechanism was created–we still have these both in the print form (paper and internet) and in the abstract (passed from protestant mind to protestant mind). Here’s the reality of the seven hills:
As the depiction shows, the Vatican is on the other side of the Tiber River–away from the Seven Hills; yet, anti-Catholic propaganda continues to sell the unsuspecting on the “proof” that the Catholic Church is what they claim it is.
Reality bites, don’t it?
Sadly, 100 years from now there will be those (less the Parousia beats them to it) who will continue to “teach” about the seven hills and the Catholic Church.
Maran atha!
Angel
As the depiction shows, the Vatican is on the other side of the Tiber River–away from the Seven Hills; yet, anti-Catholic propaganda continues to sell the unsuspecting on the “proof” that the Catholic Church is what they claim it is.
Reality bites, don’t it?
Sadly, 100 years from now there will be those (less the Parousia beats them to it) who will continue to “teach” about the seven hills and the Catholic Church.
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
It is because many do not use exegesis but eisegesis; they go to Scriptures seeking Revelation but they adapt what they read to their personal (their own or their founder’s) preconception: Catholic Church bad – whore of Babylon bad = ergo, Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.
Their reasoning does not require commonsense, reason, nor facts… and forget Scriptures, they just confuse the conclusion that they have constructed.
Maran atha!
Angel
po18guy
Well-known member
By the same token, God is pure spirit and cannot be measured or proved in any physical sense. So, do we disbelieve because of that?
Bear in mind that, once division occurs, those who have rebelled and separated must justify their separation. So, creative minds get to work. Notice that they never arrive at the conclusion that they found something better - No! It is always that the Catholic Church is filled with demons and idol worshipers, is satanic and leading souls to hell.
The severity of the accusation reflects its falsity.
Bear in mind that, once division occurs, those who have rebelled and separated must justify their separation. So, creative minds get to work. Notice that they never arrive at the conclusion that they found something better - No! It is always that the Catholic Church is filled with demons and idol worshipers, is satanic and leading souls to hell.
The severity of the accusation reflects its falsity.
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