Harry Potter 7 and Faith (Spoilers)

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Much of book 7 centers on Harry’s faith in Dumbledore and whether or not he should trust him.

More than once he is told to just choose what he wants to believe about Dumbledore, which Harry finds very frustrating. He doesn’t want to pick for himself what to believe, he wants to know the TRUTH.

In this age of “believe whatever works for you”, I found that very refreshing.

Eventually, he has to make a choice, to trust or not to trust (“Hallows or Horcruxes”).

Although he still doesn’t know the answers to all of his questions, he makes his choice to trust (while digging Dobby’s grave). He still has doubts but makes a decision to act on his faith in Dumbledore which he follows through to the end.

Anyone else see parallels to our faith in God?
 
Much of book 7 centers on Harry’s faith in Dumbledore and whether or not he should trust him.

More than once he is told to just choose what he wants to believe about Dumbledore, which Harry finds very frustrating. He doesn’t want to pick for himself what to believe, he wants to know the TRUTH.

In this age of “believe whatever works for you”, I found that very refreshing.

Eventually, he has to make a choice, to trust or not to trust (“Hallows or Horcruxes”).

Although he still doesn’t know the answers to all of his questions, he makes his choice to trust (while digging Dobby’s grave). He still has doubts but makes a decision to act on his faith in Dumbledore which he follows through to the end.

Anyone else see parallels to our faith in God?
I found this last book very interesting in that way. She seemed to add a lot of Christian themes in it, even if you have to look hard. I hadn’t noticed what you pointed out. It makes sense though.
 
Not to mention the entire King’s Cross scene, in which Harry basically forgives Dumbledore and chooses to go back (at least in some sense be “resurrected”) and continue fighting Voldemort.

And did anyone else notice that both of the inscriptions on the Dumbledore and Potter tombstones in Godric’s Hollow are from the New Testament?
Dumbledore: “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” (Matthew 6:21)
Potter: “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:26)
 
How about the four founders modeled on the archangels?

Gryffindor : Michael (courage, chivalry, and boldness), that is to say, battle.
Hufflepuff : Gabriel (hardworking, loyal, and honest), that is to say, the messenger.
Ravenclaw : Raphael (intelligence, creativity, wit, and wisdom), that is to say, look at how the Tobit book is written and how Raphael is constantly giving clues as to who he is.
Slytherin : Lucifer (ambition, cunning, resourcefulness, and pure blood heritage), or, more to say, Pride, and all Slytherins, whether they are before or after Riddle are only willing lend themselves to a situation if it will benefit or glorify them.
 
How about the four founders modeled on the archangels?

Gryffindor : Michael (courage, chivalry, and boldness), that is to say, battle.
Hufflepuff : Gabriel (hardworking, loyal, and honest), that is to say, the messenger.
Ravenclaw : Raphael (intelligence, creativity, wit, and wisdom), that is to say, look at how the Tobit book is written and how Raphael is constantly giving clues as to who he is.
Slytherin : Lucifer (ambition, cunning, resourcefulness, and pure blood heritage), or, more to say, Pride, and all Slytherins, whether they are before or after Riddle are only willing lend themselves to a situation if it will benefit or glorify them.
What cool observation! I love it!
 
Did anyone else notice that when Harry went to meet Voldemort that he walked with a “cloud of witnesses” surrounding him?

As far as I’m concerned if anyone still thinks JK Rowlings is a satanist after reading this last book than your wishing. There were so many Christian themes in that last book it was incredible! Many of them reached out and slapped me in the face. Awesome book! 👍
 
I also noticed that at the end of the book in the big “showdown” when Harry went willingly to Voldement to allow Voldemort to kill him for the sake of all the others. “for no greater love hath this, then to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”. Harry was very Christ like. By allowing Voldemort to kill him Harry saved them all and came back from the died. Christ died to save us all and came back from the dead. “I willingly lay down my life and will pick it up again”. Of course Harry wasn’t sure he’d be coming back.
 
Did anyone else notice that when Harry went to meet Voldemort that he walked with a “cloud of witnesses” surrounding him?

As far as I’m concerned if anyone still thinks JK Rowlings is a satanist after reading this last book than your wishing. There were so many Christian themes in that last book it was incredible! Many of them reached out and slapped me in the face. Awesome book! 👍
You took the words out of my mouth. I think anyone who says that Harry potter books are evil and satanic have obviously not read the books.
 
I also noticed that at the end of the book in the big “showdown” when Harry went willingly to Voldement to allow Voldemort to kill him for the sake of all the others. “for no greater love hath this, then to lay down one’s life for one’s friends”. Harry was very Christ like. By allowing Voldemort to kill him Harry saved them all and came back from the died. Christ died to save us all and came back from the dead. “I willingly lay down my life and will pick it up again”. Of course Harry wasn’t sure he’d be coming back.
And don’t forget that after Harry came back LV’s spells couldn’t last/hurt his friends. Where is thy sting O death?
 
What I find most distressing is the current lack of Church support for the arts. To begin to remedy the problem, I suggest that the Church establish a Christian Literature Award if for no other reason than to have something to give Rowlings as thanks for a great series of books of such obviously Christian content.
The Horcross that Harry carried may be viewed as the trace of Original Sin that we all carry. In the other objects it may be the temptation to misuse the gifts of creation. The scene at Kingscross was a wonderful way to show Dumbledore (like all great men) as a person with clay feet. A lot of people criticized Harry for not being perfect (rule breaking) in previous books in the series, but aren’t we all imperfect? Best of all is the fact that we finally see Professor Snape as the noble and courageous man he really was. A warning to all of us who look at the surface and see only sin and never find the heart within which struggles toward sainthood.
Although Rowlings has said that she has no immediate plans for additional books based on this imaginary world, notice that the end of the last volume leaves multiple threads open for exploration: Do we get to see how Harry and Ron’s children progress through Hogwarts? What was the eventual solution to the problem of house-elf enslavement? Have they worked out better relations with Goblins and Giants? Who is raising Lupin’s son? Who is now Headmaster at Hogwarts? What does the Ministry of Magic look like? What became of the dementors? Why did the centaurs come to the aid of the school during the final battle?
There is certainly a goldmine of material out there to be explored.
Give the lady an award for Christian literature; it’s the least we can do.

Matthew
 
Give the lady an award for Christian literature; it’s the least we can do.
I don’t know… I certainly do agree that some awards are in order, but referring to the Harry Potter series as “Christian Literature” seems to me a different question entirely, and I’m not really sure that I would agree with that description. I just don’t see it as on quite the same level of “Christian Literature” as Tolkein or Lewis. It seemed to me that Christian parallels throughout the series, though they do exist, are much fewer and often much deeper within the text than their Middle-Earth or Narnia counterparts. I can simply see most people out there missing them entirely, because they’re not nearly as “out there” or “in your face” as the constant symbolism of Frodo or Aslan as Christ figures are: the focus simply seemed to me much more upon creating a good story than it was on creating a Christian allegory from beginning to end.

And then there’s also the fact that so many of the main characters have significant character flaws… they’re much less further from sainthood than many of Lewis’s and Tolkein’s characters (Aslan, Peter, Lucy, Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli) are. Every single major character in the Harry Potter series that I can think of (with the notable exception of Lily Potter), on the other hand, seemed to have several less-than-stellar moments all the way up to the end: Harry, Ron, and Hermione never completely outgrow the lying-under-certain-circumstances habit (however close to being justifiable it might be); foul language (while not often problematic) is still certainly much more present and realistically used than in either Narnia or Lord of the Rings; and Dumbledore, who started out as perhaps one of Harry’s best father figures, drops like a rock (in my opinion) back down to earth from his near-saint-like status on at least two occasions: when he out-and-out lies to save Harry in Book 5, and when we see that he had asked Snape to murder him in Book 7, both of which left a sort of sour taste in my mouth, especially since neither action is particularly denounced as a bad decision in the books.

So overall, it just seemed to me that, although there are certainly many stong points and benefits to the Harry Potter series it still has its (forgivable) imperfections. But it is, for lack of a better word, more realistic when it comes to the existence of flawed and fallen characters. And because of that fact, it is therefore confined to being less of a pure Christian allegory on the same level as Lewis and Tolkein. I don’t know if that makes sense, or if I’m pretty much alone in feeling that way about the books, but while I can certainly see the similarities and appreciate the positive Christian themes (I beleive intentionally) buried throughout the series, I don’t quite feel that the term “Christian Literature” can apply, at least not on the same level that it does to Narnia and Lord of the Rings. I guess I just see Harry Potter much more as an enjoyable work of fiction (with Christian elements) than I do as spiritual allegory disguised as fiction. :rolleyes:
 
I don’t know… I certainly do agree that some awards are in order, but referring to the Harry Potter series as “Christian Literature” seems to me a different question entirely, and I’m not really sure that I would agree with that description. I just don’t see it as on quite the same level of “Christian Literature” as Tolkein or Lewis. It seemed to me that Christian parallels throughout the series, though they do exist, are much fewer and often much deeper within the text than their Middle-Earth or Narnia counterparts. I can simply see most people out there missing them entirely, because they’re not nearly as “out there” or “in your face” as the constant symbolism of Frodo or Aslan as Christ figures are: the focus simply seemed to me much more upon creating a good story than it was on creating a Christian allegory from beginning to end.

And then there’s also the fact that so many of the main characters have significant character flaws… they’re much less further from sainthood than many of Lewis’s and Tolkein’s characters (Aslan, Peter, Lucy, Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli) are. Every single major character in the Harry Potter series that I can think of (with the notable exception of Lily Potter), on the other hand, seemed to have several less-than-stellar moments all the way up to the end: Harry, Ron, and Hermione never completely outgrow the lying-under-certain-circumstances habit (however close to being justifiable it might be); foul language (while not often problematic) is still certainly much more present and realistically used than in either Narnia or Lord of the Rings; and Dumbledore, who started out as perhaps one of Harry’s best father figures, drops like a rock (in my opinion) back down to earth from his near-saint-like status on at least two occasions: when he out-and-out lies to save Harry in Book 5, and when we see that he had asked Snape to murder him in Book 7, both of which left a sort of sour taste in my mouth, especially since neither action is particularly denounced as a bad decision in the books.

So overall, it just seemed to me that, although there are certainly many stong points and benefits to the Harry Potter series it still has its (forgivable) imperfections. But it is, for lack of a better word, more realistic when it comes to the existence of flawed and fallen characters. And because of that fact, it is therefore confined to being less of a pure Christian allegory on the same level as Lewis and Tolkein. I don’t know if that makes sense, or if I’m pretty much alone in feeling that way about the books, but while I can certainly see the similarities and appreciate the positive Christian themes (I beleive intentionally) buried throughout the series, I don’t quite feel that the term “Christian Literature” can apply, at least not on the same level that it does to Narnia and Lord of the Rings. I guess I just see Harry Potter much more as an enjoyable work of fiction (with Christian elements) than I do as spiritual allegory disguised as fiction. :rolleyes:
I actually like that many of the charactors (including Dumbledore) had major flaws. It shows more of a struggle like the everyday Christian.
 
I find that the chapter King’s Cross has some very powerful messages in it. I don’t know how people can back up their opinion that HP series are evil if they read every word that Dumbledore has said in the series.

I can’t wait to see when the 7th movie comes out and Molly Weasley battles Bellatrix.

GET OFF MY DAUGHTER YOU WITCH!😃 (I used a W instead of a B)
 
I actually like that many of the charactors (including Dumbledore) had major flaws. It shows more of a struggle like the everyday Christian.
Oh, I agree. But at the same time I think that element kind of prevents the series from being “Christian literature” in the same way that other famous series are. There is really no one main character in Harry Potter (the exception being, as I said, Lily Potter, in the little we see of her) that you can really hold up as a consistently great role model. Every character has their own personal flaws, and for the most part they never completely face them and overcome them. More realistic, yes, but simply not the same kind as characters we find in Narnia and Lord of the Rings: the ones that are always a good moral figure, or the ones that face their flaws and ultimately reject them. We don’t find characters like that in Harry Potter… and I don’t think that we necessarily should. But it does prevent me from looking at this series as something on quite the same level as Narnia or Lord of the Rings. Certainly there are many Christian messages, and even several scenes that might be directly allegorical to aspects of the Christian faith… but as a whole I think it supposed to be taken as entertaining fiction that contains elements of Christian symbolism, not the other way around. (If that makes sense. Maybe it’s just me. :rolleyes:)
 
GET OFF MY DAUGHTER YOU WITCH!😃 (I used a W instead of a B)
Stolen from Aliens but a great line nonetheless

Even in the final showdown Harry was trying to save Voldermorts soul-asking him again and again tp show remorse.
 
You all might be interested in John Granger’s website. He has an essay on the Christian Content of Deathly Hallows:
hogwartsprofessor.com/?p=160#more-160

In this part he talks mostly about Harry’s “Faith Journey” where he goes through doubt & disillusionment, a dark night of the soul, though he doesn’t mention that phrase. He explores the idea of DD being an allegory for God or the Church and Harry’s struggle to trust DD in light of DD’s not so perfect past.

He mentions Dobby (the elf) as the model Christian of the series and explains why. So we really can’t say that there aren’t any perfect Christian role models and there may be more. Its subtle, but I think that it registers on the subconscience.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading it and look forward to the next installment.
 
MasterJedi747,
In order to get a better understanding of Christian (Catholic) literature it would be well if you could read James Joyce, William Faulkner, Flannery O’Connor and other Catholic authors. Not every Christian work of literature is as transparent as many would like. In fact the best literature is often extremely deep and the surface story seems to have nothing whatever to do with Christianity.

Matthew
 
MasterJedi747,
In order to get a better understanding of Christian (Catholic) literature it would be well if you could read James Joyce, William Faulkner, Flannery O’Connor and other Catholic authors. Not every Christian work of literature is as transparent as many would like. In fact the best literature is often extremely deep and the surface story seems to have nothing whatever to do with Christianity.

Matthew
I agree-I now more think Harry Potter was intended to be Chrisian Literature than I do that is the work of Satan trying to seduce our children. Having said that the Chrisitan themes in the books are apparent.
 
OOOH!! Did we all go to Mass on Sunday & Wednesday (or even Saturday &/or Tuesday vigil)!!! BOTH OF THE BIBLE QUOTES WERE READ!!! …BOTH IN ONE WEEK!!! 😃

I’m not a loser with misappropriated priorities. 😦
 
Oh, I agree. But at the same time I think that element kind of prevents the series from being “Christian literature” in the same way that other famous series are. There is really no one main character in Harry Potter (the exception being, as I said, Lily Potter, in the little we see of her) that you can really hold up as a consistently great role model. Every character has their own personal flaws, and for the most part they never completely face them and overcome them. More realistic, yes, but simply not the same kind as characters we find in Narnia and Lord of the Rings: the ones that are always a good moral figure, or the ones that face their flaws and ultimately reject them. We don’t find characters like that in Harry Potter… and I don’t think that we necessarily should. But it does prevent me from looking at this series as something on quite the same level as Narnia or Lord of the Rings. Certainly there are many Christian messages, and even several scenes that might be directly allegorical to aspects of the Christian faith… but as a whole I think it supposed to be taken as entertaining fiction that contains elements of Christian symbolism, not the other way around. (If that makes sense. Maybe it’s just me. :rolleyes:)
I can think of one in the Narnia series. In the book A Horse and His Boy, remember the princess was sort of punished towards the end of the book for allowing her servant to be whipped. Aslan scatches her on the back to show her what happened to her servant. In the Tolkien books there are characters with major flaws. In The Silmarillion a lot of the elves were very selfish.
 
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