Harry Potter anyone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lillith
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Gee, I can’t believe how this debate never dies. For what it’s worth:
  1. There is not now, nor will there ever be, HP in my house.
  2. God can be found in the darkest places. He goes there to bring back sinners
  3. I like bucking the culture. I like to walk in the opposite direction of the world.
  4. I think my children’s minds are better filled with other things. I can think of hundreds of other books that are both more fulfilling, and better literature.
  5. Why take a chance?
    You are free to do what you want. I’m not convinced that the whole HP phenomenon is good for kids. I have been very disheartened by the lack of prudence on the part of many Catholics when it comes to such topics as magic, the occult, psychics, the “New Age”, etc. These should not be so readily dismissed out of hand as “harmless”. We, as a culture in general, are always so eager to find justification for indulging in the things we want. Beware of the frog in the boiling water effect. But please understand that I am not being some overzealous Bible beater. Do I look down on people who buy into the HP craze? Of course not. It is something each parent needs to decide for themselves. For me and mine, however, I think a better lesson can be found in having the courage to take the road less traveled.
 
40.png
legeorge:
Gee, I can’t believe how this debate never dies. For what it’s worth:
  1. There is not now, nor will there ever be, HP in my house.
  2. God can be found in the darkest places. He goes there to bring back sinners
  3. I like bucking the culture. I like to walk in the opposite direction of the world.
  4. I think my children’s minds are better filled with other things. I can think of hundreds of other books that are both more fulfilling, and better literature.
  5. Why take a chance?
    You are free to do what you want. I’m not convinced that the whole HP phenomenon is good for kids. I have been very disheartened by the lack of prudence on the part of many Catholics when it comes to such topics as magic, the occult, psychics, the “New Age”, etc. These should not be so readily dismissed out of hand as “harmless”. We, as a culture in general, are always so eager to find justification for indulging in the things we want. Beware of the frog in the boiling water effect. But please understand that I am not being some overzealous Bible beater. Do I look down on people who buy into the HP craze? Of course not. It is something each parent needs to decide for themselves. For me and mine, however, I think a better lesson can be found in having the courage to take the road less traveled.
Click to expand...
What a wonderful post!

:blessyou:
 
40.png
Lillith:
O.K…so what do you really think about these movies/books?
Click to expand...
I can’t wait for the release of book #6! (I think it’s July 16th?)
And I can’t wait for the release of movie #4! :cool:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong w/ HP as long as whoever reads/watches it understands that it’s only fiction.
 
I have read all the Harry Potter series and enjoyed them. I think the hype coming from the Protestant objection is like a bandwagon that has permeated our culture. Parents feel pressured to “dislike or ban” Harry Potter from their family because they dont’ want to be judged as bad parents and they want to fit in with the Mommy crowd or fellow church families.

Many of the same people who Ban Harry Potter from their family, enjoy Star Wars, Lord of the Rings etc. LOR has majic, creatures, wizards and witchcraft. Star Wars has Jedis (much like wizards, but unique characters) and they don’t talk about “God” but refer to “The Force”

The Harry Potter series doesn’t hide danger and death from children, it has themes of self sacrifice for one’s friends and the greater good. It has some very dark images, but also bravery against evil, it has creative imagery and I personally think the writing is great because JKR doesn’t “talk down” to kids, but uses vocabulary, themes, symbolism, and a writing style full of fun details and a sense of humor which appeals, not only to children, but to many adults as well.

My children have a good balance of reading materials which far outweighs the witchcraft in Harry Potter. We read about the saints, the Bible and I make sure to explain that those miracles are real and Harry Potter and Star Wars, Disney movies, are fantasy. I am also careful to explain that Santa Clause is a fantasy, and that Jesus being born into the world is REAL. They read the classics, as well as Shakespere.

Many of the themes in the Harry Potter series can be dark, it is a battle between good and evil in the wizard world, as long as a child understands that the wizard world is fantasy, and that we are never to dabble in witchcraft and why, it is OK to watch or read the Harry Potter series as a family. I often interject that "we don’t practice witchcraft, or divination, etc. It goes against the Bible, the Word of God, the Catholic Church, but we can have fun with a make believe story. The only thing that comes close to magic in this world are the miracles of God, adn they are far greater than any “magic” in Harry Potter.

My kids seem to do well with this, but only a parent know’s his or her child. If a child seems to obsess over Harry Potter, I would remove it from their lives.

I think the hype is way overblown with the Anti-Harry-Potter crowd, but I respect other parent’s decisions, I just find it annoying when a parent decides to judge* me* for allowing my kids to read Harry Potter, when they are totally fine with their children being obsessed with Star Wars, and go out of their way to keep the magic of santa alive, to the point of lying to their children, yet think it’s awful that we tell our kids that Santa is a tradition based on ST. Nicholas and he can pray for us, but doesn’t bring us sacks full of toys down the chimney with elves and flying reindeer. I think it distracts far too much from Jesus and the reason for the season.

We take our religious life very seriously in this house but I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon to ban a book I see as an imaginative fantasy story. Everything a child reads or watches should be under the supervision of a parent. The biggest kid’s movie purchase I regret is “National Treasure” because it glorifies the Masons and clouds history. When my Harry Potter hating sister in law recommended this movie, I had no idea it was a glorification of the order of the Masons.

In the end, only a parent can decide whether their children are mature enough to handle Harry Potter. I respect their decisions for their children.
 
40.png
Peace-bwu:
I think the hype is way overblown with the Anti-Harry-Potter crowd, but I respect other parent’s decisions, I just find it annoying when a parent decides to judge* me* for allowing my kids to read Harry Potter, when they are totally fine with their children being obsessed with Star Wars, and go out of their way to keep the magic of santa alive, to the point of lying to their children, yet think it’s awful that we tell our kids that Santa is a tradition based on ST. Nicholas and he can pray for us, but doesn’t bring us sacks full of toys down the chimney with elves and flying reindeer. I think it distracts far too much from Jesus and the reason for the season.

We take our religious life very seriously in this house but I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon to ban a book I see as an imaginative fantasy story. Everything a child reads or watches should be under the supervision of a parent. The biggest kid’s movie purchase I regret is “National Treasure” because it glorifies the Masons and clouds history. When my Harry Potter hating sister in law recommended this movie, I had no idea it was a glorification of the order of the Masons.

In the end, only a parent can decide whether their children are mature enough to handle Harry Potter. I respect their decisions for their children.
Click to expand...
What a great post!

I completely agree with you!

:blessyou:
 
Here is an interesting view that Chamber of Secrets is a Morality Play:
Chamber as Morality Play

Christian morality plays were the first theater in Western Europe. They were almost without exception either portrayals of Bible stories or ‘Everyman’ allegories of the soul’s journey to salvation through thick and thin.

Harry, our ‘Every Man’, enters the Chamber of Secrets to find and rescue Ginny. He finds her but she is unconscious and Harry cannot revive her. He meets Tom Riddle. He had thought Riddle was a friend and asks for his help in restoring Ginny. No deal.

He learns then that Riddle is anything but his friend; Tom Riddle is the young Lord Voldemort, Satan’s ‘stand in’ in the Harry Potter books, the Dark Lord or Evil One. Far from helping him revive Ginny, Riddle has been the cause of her near death. Harry boldly confesses his loyalty to Albus Dumbledore and his belief that Dumbledore’s power is greater than Voldemort’s.

The Chamber is filled with Phoenix song at this point, heralding the arrival of Fawkes, Dumbledore’s Phoenix, who brings Harry the Sorting Hat of Godric Gryffyndor. The Dark Lord laughs at “what Dumbledore sends his defender” and offers to teach Harry a “little lesson”. He releases the giant Basilisk from his reservoir.

The look of the Basilisk is death so Harry, eyes closed, runs from it. The Phoenix attacks the charging Basilisk and punctures its deadly eyes. Harry cries for help to “someone - anyone -” as the Phoenix and blind Basilisk continue to battle; he is given the Sorting Hat-.Harry throws himself to the ground, rams the hat over his head, and begs for help again. A “gleaming silver sword” comes through the hat.

The Evil One directs the blind Basilisk to leave the Phoenix and attack the boy. Harry drives the sword “to the hilt into the roof of the serpent’s mouth” when it lunges for him - but one poisonous fang enters Harry’s arm as the Basilisk falls to its death. Harry, mortally wounded, falls beside it. Phoenix weeps into Harry’s wound as Riddle laughs at Harry’s death.

Too late, Riddle remembers the healing powers of Phoenix tears and chases away the Phoenix. He then confronts the prostrate Harry and raises Harry’s wand to murder him. The Phoenix gives Harry the diary and Harry drives the splintered Basilisk fang into it. Riddle dies and disappears as ink pours from the diary. Ginny revives and they escape. Holding the tail feathers of the Phoenix, they fly from the cavern “miles beneath Hogwarts” to safety and freedom above. Harry celebrates with Dumbledore.
 
Part two:
Now let’s translate this Morality Play. First, the cast of characters, the dramatis personae:
  • Code: 
            Harry is 'Every Man'
  • Code: 
            Ginny is 'Virgin Innocence, Purity'
  • Code: 
            Riddle/Voldemort is 'Satan, the Deceiver'
  • Code: 
            The Basilisk is 'Sin'
  • Code: 
            Dumbledore is 'God the Father'
  • Code: 
            Fawkes the Phoenix is 'Christ'
  • Code: 
            Phoenix Song is 'Holy Spirit'
  • Code: 
            Gryffyndor's Sword is 'the Sword of Faith/Spirit' (Ephesians 6:17)
  • Code: 
            The Chamber is 'the World' and
  • Code: 
            Hogwarts is 'Heaven'
The action of the drama, then, goes like this: man, alone and afraid in the World, loses his innocence. He tries to regain it but is prevented by Satan, who feeds on his fallen, lost innocence. Man confesses and calls on God the Father before Satan and is graced immediately by the Holy Spirit and the protective presence of Christ.

Satan confronts man with the greatness of his sins but Christ battles on Man’s side for Man’s salvation from his sins. God sends Man the Sword of Faith which he ‘works’ to slay his Christ-weakened enemy. His sins are absolved but the weight of them still mean Man’s death. Satan rejoices.

But, wait, the voluntary suffering of Christ heals Man! Man rises from the dead, and, with Christ’s help, Man destroys Satan. Man’s innocence is restored and he leaves the World for Heaven by means of the Ascension of Christ. Man, risen with Christ, lives with God the Father in joyful thanksgiving.

Rowling illustrates here that her books are Christian and in bold opposition to the spiritually dangerous books our children are often given. Chamber of Secrets is an example in the genre of an engaging, enlightening, and edifying reading experience for children - and a powerful rebuke and wake-up call to her Christian critics.
Code: 
       What is *Chamber of Secrets about*? Rowling, perhaps in response to the absence of intelligent discussion of Stone's meaning, in her second book clearly reveals to the discerning reader that she is writing Inkling fiction, i.e., stories that will prepare children for Christian spiritual life and combat with evil. Talk about baptizing the imagination with Christian symbols and doctrine!
She also points out to her Christian critics that their real enemies are not her counter-materialist magic but both the dark magic hidden in their children’s textbooks and the ‘good children’s books’ written by atheists and the worldly minded. Chamber of Secrets is a tour de force operating on at least three levels of meaning simultaneously. I can understand, consequently, Rowling’s struggle in writing it and I agree with her that it is the best single volume of the series.

ev90481.dial.pipex.com/harry_potter_granger.htm
 
We take our religious life very seriously in this house but I’m not going to jump on the bandwagon to ban a book I see as an imaginative fantasy story. Everything a child reads or watches should be under the supervision of a parent. The biggest kid’s movie purchase I regret is “National Treasure” because it glorifies the Masons and clouds history. When my Harry Potter hating sister in law recommended this movie, I had no idea it was a glorification of the order of the Masons.
Click to expand...
In the end, only a parent can decide whether their children are mature enough to handle Harry Potter. I respect their decisions for their children.
Click to expand...
Great post!!! I am careful about what my kids read and watch but I allow HP novels and movies. They are both very well grounded in their faith and balance their reading with lives of the saints, non-fiction (mostly history and science) and classics along with some of the more popular childrens lit.

As for National Treasure, I too was shocked at how the movie treated the Masons. My kids, however, knowing that Masons were anti-Catholic and that Masons are excommunicated, gleefully pointed that out and then settled in to watch the movie as “just” an adventure story. The fact that that Mason fallacy was made so early in the movie made it clear to them that this was just a fictional tale and they didn’t take the rest too seriously either.
 
Well… In fact, there is a problem with Harry Potter books… Unfortunately, it’s something more than plain fantasy novels… The problem is that, much to my surprise, I have discovered that the rituals described in these novels are not ficticious - they are real rituals used by Wiccans, etc. If it’s gonna hurt your children spiritually, that’s up to you to answer… It’s like with a Satanic music or hymns - you don’t have to be a Satanist to be influenced badly by this… So, be careful…
 
duskyjewel said:
Source please… back up this claim.
Click to expand...
I would like to back this up… I have no Harry Potter books at my disposal at the time so I cannot pick them up and fulfill your curiosity… But, you know, for many years I was a practitioner of ceremonial magick, wicca, santeria, demonology… so I simply know what I’m talking about… My source is my experience… Not just books or overheard information…
 
trichocereus said:
Well… In fact, there is a problem with Harry Potter books… Unfortunately, it’s something more than plain fantasy novels… The problem is that, much to my surprise, I have discovered that the rituals described in these novels are not ficticious - they are real rituals used by Wiccans, etc. If it’s gonna hurt your children spiritually, that’s up to you to answer… It’s like with a Satanic music or hymns - you don’t have to be a Satanist to be influenced badly by this… So, be careful…
Click to expand...
Okay everyone, please don’t attack me for this…I loved the books. I actually read them last summer as my grandkids love the movies and books. This is just my opinion but to me they were almost an allegory of WWII…mud bloods, pure bloods, not accepting others (house elves, giants, etc.)…the horrible prison of Azkaban and on and on. And in the end, love is the defining force that conquers all. And after all, God is love. I grew up on fairy tales which I loved and I survived and I don’t think it warped me.
 
trichocereus said:
I would like to back this up… I have no Harry Potter books at my disposal at the time so I cannot pick them up and fulfill your curiosity… But, you know, for many years I was a practitioner of ceremonial magick, wicca, santeria, demonology… so I simply know what I’m talking about… My source is my experience… Not just books or overheard information…
Click to expand...
So you practiced Wicca? So what? Wicca, santeria, demonology… None of it has anything to do with Harry Potter! Have you even read the books? What exactly in HP corresponds to any of the practices you mentioned? I’ve read all 7, so just cite me an event or scene, and I will be familiar enough with it to be able to follow your point.
 
trichocereus said:
I would like to back this up… I have no Harry Potter books at my disposal at the time so I cannot pick them up and fulfill your curiosity… But, you know, for many years I was a practitioner of ceremonial magick, wicca, santeria, demonology… so I simply know what I’m talking about… My source is my experience… Not just books or overheard information…
Click to expand...
I’m not really sure why such an ancient topic is being revived, but …

The magic in the Harry Potter books is a mechanical alternate science. It has no relation to “real rituals”.

For proof: what are the ingredients and process for producing a potion to cure boils?

Where can we obtain unicorn hair, powdered horn of bicorn, dragon heartstrings, and phoenix feathers?

Has one person ever been saved from poison by use of a bezoar?
 
I recall listening to a knowledgeable priest give a sermon that mentioned those books.

He said that some of the witchcraft and names of demons used in the books were in fact, from real sources and the real things.

He also said that in general, save in the case of an exorcism, every time a demon’s name is mentioned it glorifies to a certain extent, that demon.

Therefor, one would not read the books.

I however, read some of them before I listened to the sermon. I found them incredibly boring and poorly written. There’s a lot better in the fantasy and children’s novels series out there. Waste of time to read these. Very generic and copying from previous and better written works.
 
I’ve read all the books. Once. And had no desire to reread them. Lots of action, but not a whole lot of emotion or depth.

So “Harry Potter” is sort of the “Hardy Boys” of magic. 😉
 
biandblessed said:
Harry Potter, love it, hate it? Good, bad, wrong, right?
Click to expand...
My, oh my, let’s open up that can of worms again! 😉

There have been many threads discussing Harry Potter on this forum. If you do a search, you’ll see a lot of…er, “lively” discussion on the subject.

There are many good Catholics here and elsewhere that have opposite opinions on the subject, and that’s okay. So long as we don’t cross the line into demonizing those who like the books or ridiculing those who have issues with it.

Myself, I initially dismissed it after reading an article in Envoy magazine a number of years ago. As I am always one who is initially suspicious of the wildly popular, I was more than happy to accept the article’s assertions and dismiss the series. However, when a priest friend of mine who is extremely orthodox started talking about how great the series was, I thought it beared further investigation. When I actually started reading the books for myself (and watched the movies), I began to move over to the other camp.

Masterpieces of literature, they certainly are not. I find “Lord of the Rings” and the “Chronicles of Narnia” to be much more well-written. However, Rowling has created a very immersive world in her books, and one that I do not think is antithetical to Christianity.

Of all the articles I have come across, these two are my favorite:
They say things better than I can. I particularly like Welborn’s observation that the emergence of Wicca in the past 30 years is what has most Christians on guard. If not for that pseudo-religion, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.
 
theistgal said:
I’ve read all the books. Once. And had no desire to reread them. Lots of action, but not a whole lot of emotion or depth.

So “Harry Potter” is sort of the “Hardy Boys” of magic. 😉
Click to expand...
Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

I learned to read at an early age, mainly because of the Hardy Boys. Eventually I graduated to bigger and better things – Tolkien, Lewis, Chesterton, Poe, Twain, etc – but I still have a soft spot for “FW Dixon” (who was a Canuck, to boot!).

If someone had stuck Dickens in my hands when I was six, I might have been turned off literature (and reading) altogether. I don’t force-feed well. Which is why I hated Dickens and most poetry until recently (bad experiences with English Lit classes).

So if something grabs kids’ attentions and gets 'em reading, I’m all for it (provided the subject matter is appropriate and parental-approved). Mediocre lit is better than no lit. Plus, you can gradually introduce the “better stuff” into their diet. Because of the Hardys, I liked mystery/adventure stuff: I first went through the Grosset & Dunlap library (Christopher Cool, Rick Brant), which led me to Tom Swift, which led me to science-fiction in general. My liking of mystery novels went into abeyance until I discovered Agatha Christie’s Poirot, which led to GK Chesterton’s Father Brown and Ellis Peters Father Cadfael.

Now I’ve never read War & Peace or Summa Theologica, and I’m obviously not nearly as erudite as many of the posters here – but I do read, consider myself a fairly good writer, and what skills I do have I can ultimately trace back to Frank, Joe, Chet, and Biff.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top