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deb1
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The same can be said of fairy tales and ancient mythology. I myself like reading the Norse myths. Do people who don’t like reading the Potter series not read fairy tales or myths?
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David_Oatney
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The only thing I need to hear is the Holy Father calling Harry Potter dangerous…which he has done.
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Shiann
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David Oatney said:
Please cite your source.
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HpyCatholic
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I couldn’t find much about the pope condemning Harry Potter on google. I did find this though:
home.swipnet.se/corbie/English/Potter/kuby.html
Not sure how good the source is it was just the only thing I could find on the subject. Maybe I need to learn how to search better
home.swipnet.se/corbie/English/Potter/kuby.html
Not sure how good the source is it was just the only thing I could find on the subject. Maybe I need to learn how to search better
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Shiann
Guest
…you’d think if there was a papal declaration, there would be a lot more sources…I couldn’t find much about the pope condemning Harry Potter on google. I did find this though:
home.swipnet.se/corbie/English/Potter/kuby.html
Not sure how good the source is it was just the only thing I could find on the subject. Maybe I need to learn how to search better
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Lissla_Lissar
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I did say in my post that I’ve only read the first four. I am aware that Sirius dies- too bad, because he and Snape are the only characters I liked. I’ll probably read the fifth and sixth this summer sometime.
I probably shouldn’t bew debating this, because I haven’t read the books in at least two or three years, and they mostly bored me, but I can, if you like, go and dig up quotes to support my point- which is that there doesn’t seem to be much moral follow-through, and that Harry gets consistently praised and rewarded for doing nothing terribly heroic. He also gets away with lying and disobeying adults quite often.
As I think I said before, I have no problem with magic in books. I love fairy tales, I’m an avid reader of YA fantasy. Personally, I think that Harry Potter is not great reading, both in terms of tacit morality and writing, and would be far happier with my children (when and if God blesses me with them) reading Narnia, LOTR, The Neverending Story, A Wrinkle In Time, or any other really good children’s fiction.
That said, they’re not terrible- there’s some bloody awful kid’s books out right now (anyone else seen the Gossip Girls series? Shudder.).
I probably shouldn’t bew debating this, because I haven’t read the books in at least two or three years, and they mostly bored me, but I can, if you like, go and dig up quotes to support my point- which is that there doesn’t seem to be much moral follow-through, and that Harry gets consistently praised and rewarded for doing nothing terribly heroic. He also gets away with lying and disobeying adults quite often.
As I think I said before, I have no problem with magic in books. I love fairy tales, I’m an avid reader of YA fantasy. Personally, I think that Harry Potter is not great reading, both in terms of tacit morality and writing, and would be far happier with my children (when and if God blesses me with them) reading Narnia, LOTR, The Neverending Story, A Wrinkle In Time, or any other really good children’s fiction.
That said, they’re not terrible- there’s some bloody awful kid’s books out right now (anyone else seen the Gossip Girls series? Shudder.).
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sanpablo
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Lissla Lissar:
*The people who say this have not read the books carefully and have read them with a very biased-yuck Harry Potter is evil- mindset.
Honestly, I don’t know how you can say that, as that thought that Harry’s actions don’t have consequences hasn’t even crossed my mind. I have read each book an average of about 5 or 6 times, and Harry’s actions do indeed have consequences. Like all the times he gets detention, or all the times that soneone is hurt, or sent to jail, because of actions, and he does realize that those things are consequences.
And have you people who think Harry Potter is evil because they use “magic” ever thought that that is the same kind of good “magic” that is in *The Lord of the Rings, C.S. Lewis, The Lost Years of Merlin, King Arthur, *and tons of fairy tales that have been around for centuries. “Magic” is simply a term used to descirbe supernatural-by that I mean something not like noraml people, not evil “magic”- abilities, and things from the Force in *Star Wars *to Gandalf’s power in Tolkien to the One Power in *The Wheel of Time *by Robert Jordan could be, and are sometimes described as “magic”. There is a big difference between fairy tale and Merlin-like wizard magic that is present in Harry Potter and the evil black satanic “magic” that is outlawed in the Bible. Does Harry ever once, when saying a spell or anything like that, call upon the devil ot help him? NO HE DOES NOT! He is simply using a power that is inside him, much like the power to move things with her mind that Matilda has in Roald Dahl’s book, to do something other people can’t do. And don’t use what I just said to say, “oh, well, what about Voldemort? He’s evil.” Well, guess what, some humans, whether they have supernatural powers or not, turn out to be evil. Sorry, but unless you’re going to condemn the works of Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, T.A. Barron, and George Lucas, among others, you can’t use the " all magic is evil" argument when saying Harry Potter is bad.
And also, the writing is also very good.
*and that Harry gets consistently praised and rewarded for doing nothing terribly heroic.
*The people who say this have not read the books carefully and have read them with a very biased-yuck Harry Potter is evil- mindset.
Honestly, I don’t know how you can say that, as that thought that Harry’s actions don’t have consequences hasn’t even crossed my mind. I have read each book an average of about 5 or 6 times, and Harry’s actions do indeed have consequences. Like all the times he gets detention, or all the times that soneone is hurt, or sent to jail, because of actions, and he does realize that those things are consequences.
And have you people who think Harry Potter is evil because they use “magic” ever thought that that is the same kind of good “magic” that is in *The Lord of the Rings, C.S. Lewis, The Lost Years of Merlin, King Arthur, *and tons of fairy tales that have been around for centuries. “Magic” is simply a term used to descirbe supernatural-by that I mean something not like noraml people, not evil “magic”- abilities, and things from the Force in *Star Wars *to Gandalf’s power in Tolkien to the One Power in *The Wheel of Time *by Robert Jordan could be, and are sometimes described as “magic”. There is a big difference between fairy tale and Merlin-like wizard magic that is present in Harry Potter and the evil black satanic “magic” that is outlawed in the Bible. Does Harry ever once, when saying a spell or anything like that, call upon the devil ot help him? NO HE DOES NOT! He is simply using a power that is inside him, much like the power to move things with her mind that Matilda has in Roald Dahl’s book, to do something other people can’t do. And don’t use what I just said to say, “oh, well, what about Voldemort? He’s evil.” Well, guess what, some humans, whether they have supernatural powers or not, turn out to be evil. Sorry, but unless you’re going to condemn the works of Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, T.A. Barron, and George Lucas, among others, you can’t use the " all magic is evil" argument when saying Harry Potter is bad.
And also, the writing is also very good.
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deaconswife
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I’m doing the same thing too, if that makes you are freak then at least know that you are not alone.PS. I’m re-reading book 5 for the third time in anticipation of book 6 in July…Yes I’m a freak.
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CheesusPowerKid
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A: They’re FICTION If you or your child are not mature enough to realize that, then yes, you probably shouldn’t read them…but for the rest of us, they’re absolutely awesome!!!
B: Freaks? I promise that my college sister, mom, and I will be standing in line at midnight, fully outfitted (cape, ties, glasses, scars and all!) with all those little kids waiting for the sixth book…and I have read each of them AT LEAST three-four times…so yeah, we’re not freaks, everyone else is
In Him,
Britty
If you or your child are not mature enough to realize that, then yes, you probably shouldn’t read them…but for the rest of us, they’re absolutely awesome!!!B: Freaks? I promise that my college sister, mom, and I will be standing in line at midnight, fully outfitted (cape, ties, glasses, scars and all!) with all those little kids waiting for the sixth book…and I have read each of them AT LEAST three-four times…so yeah, we’re not freaks, everyone else is
In Him,
Britty
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Nan_S
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You identify yourself as a Catholic. Please explain how you justify your reasoning in light of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: *“2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future… ****2117 ***All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. … Wearing charms is also reprehensible. …” See post #32.
sanpablo said:
- George Lucas is a New Age practitioner. Lucas truly believes the “Force” is real. He revealed this in a 1980 Time Magazine interview when The Empire Strikes Back was released. And he uses the movies to gift-wrap his non-Christian “magic power” beliefs for us. Are you suggesting that exposing our kids to unchallenged New Age thinking is a good idea?
- Robert Jordan’s “One Power” world is one of, at best, deists. Maybe we should encourage our kids to abandon Christianity for deism. Jordan’s “creator-god” puts his world of perpetual reincarnation in motion, gives certain people the ability to access the “Force,” then abandons them to fight evil on their own. Oh, yes, what a nice message to give our kids. Not to worry, though. Jordan’s Wheel of Time books are so long and slow moving that most kids lose interest. He published the first part of the story in the late 1980’s, and more than 16 years later he is still several books away from the conclusion.
- J. K. Rowling is no Christian. When asked, point-blank, “Are you a Christian?” the most she would ever admit to is “If that means, do I believe in god, yes.” If she belongs to a church of any kind, I’ve yet to hear of it. Oh my, yes, let’s just endorse this woman’s ideas about “magic” for our children. Which spell shall we learn today?
- Tolkein was a Catholic, although he created Middle Earth as a pre-Christian mythological world. Gandalf does not teach “magic” to anyone, nor does he use his magical abilities except in extreme circumstances, and when he does he exposes the group to dire peril. Tolkien’s message about “magic” is that it is dangerous and not be used. I like that message better than the one I get from Lucas, Jordan, or Rowling.
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sarcophagus
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C’mon guys…they’re just books. Books can be evil, but Harry Potter is hardly that. Now if you were talking about the Satanic Bible, well then I’d understand the contraversy. A lot of people have said so far that there are better books ie. LOTR. Sorry, must disagree. You’d rather have your children read about war and death (most of the books are about war and death) and yet Harry Potter is out of the question??? Makes no sense to me.
To be perfectly honest here, it’s not the children’s responsibility to discern evil. It’s the parents. I’m sure these books would not hold such a mystical evil captivity on childrens brains if the parents would teach them proper morality.
I credit Rowling and her books for teaching my sister (who suffers from severe ADD) how to read. I’m buying her the new one for her 18th birthday. Not to mention that after learning to read when she was 12 because of these books, my sister has since tackled LOTR and Narnia. Harry Potter was a stepping stone for her and should be for all children because they are enjoyable for them. Don’t give a 10 year old a 1000 page book about some boring subject because they won’t read it. Start with something they can identify with.
Just my 2 cents
To be perfectly honest here, it’s not the children’s responsibility to discern evil. It’s the parents. I’m sure these books would not hold such a mystical evil captivity on childrens brains if the parents would teach them proper morality.
I credit Rowling and her books for teaching my sister (who suffers from severe ADD) how to read. I’m buying her the new one for her 18th birthday. Not to mention that after learning to read when she was 12 because of these books, my sister has since tackled LOTR and Narnia. Harry Potter was a stepping stone for her and should be for all children because they are enjoyable for them. Don’t give a 10 year old a 1000 page book about some boring subject because they won’t read it. Start with something they can identify with.
Just my 2 cents
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puzzleannie
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the prisoner of Aser whatever is on DSS now, saw the first 15-30 minutes or so, too dark, too confusing, too much special effects and not enough story, have no interest in watching the rest, I will ask my grandson to explain the plot to me, or stick to the books (if ever there was an author desperately in need of an editor, JKR is it)
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Monarchy
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Nan S:
He DOES NOT summon the spirits of his dead parents. Harry’s and Voldemort’s wands have the same core from the same animal (Dumbledore’s Pheonix), and their spells were cast at the same time, causing a strugle (which harry wins) and this causes Voldemorts wand to start showing all the spells performed starting with the most recent. As Voldemort used the wand to kill Harry’s parents, A rememberance of his parents comes out of Voldemort’s wand.
It took three years because J.K.Rowling had just had a baby, and wanted time with the tyke.
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Nan_S
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They were pulled out by Harry’s wand. There were the actual spirits, not rememberances. Harry used them to fight for him and give him a chance to escape. He didn’t set out to summon the spirits, but he still achieved it, and when he did he used them. Now, before you start denying that he WANTED to summon his dead parents, you need to remember that he spent, literally, hours and days being enthralled by the Mirror of Erised, wishing for his parents to be able to talk to him.
You might make that statement about the soon-to-be-released Book #6. I’m talking about the delay in publishing Book #5, and how the occult usage was considerably toned down from Book #4.
Books #1-4 were published in 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000. Book #5 was anounced for 2001, then postponed until 2002, then postponed again until 2003, when it was finally published immediately after the baby was born. Funny, I thought pregnancy only lasted 9 months.
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Shiann
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Nan S:
She married her second husband also in 2001.
Her son David was as you said a few months before the 5th book was released.
I’m not sure what your point is, and why you bring up the delay in the books of 2000 to 2003. But any number of things could explain the delay. Maybe she was busy writing and rewriting the other two books and getting married? Maybe her publishers refused to release it- in favor of creating a marketing fervor for the book when it was released (which if this was the case it worked brilliantly).
JK Rowling could sell a sentence written on a single piece of paper, for thousands of dollars let alone the millions of dollars that are made on one of her novels. I’m not sure her editors have a lot of control of what she writes… They don’t really need to. The Harry Potter books sell regardless.
Are the books top notch literary masterpieces? Nay. But they are fun, and frivolous, and a good summer read.
Those who insist on throwing the “magik” card into the mix will continue to get my request to PLEASE read “Finding God in Harry Potter”. There are many reflections of Christianity in these novels if you dare to explore it.
I’m not asking you to read Harry Potter itself, only the books by John Granger. If you still feel compelled to avoid Harry Potter, you have my respect and admiration for sticking to your word. I applaud any parent that is willing to stand up for their convictions when it comes to raising their kids. I myself refuse to have certain books in my home as well. But Harry Potter will always be welcome.
JK Rowling published two books in 2001 both for charities: Quidditch Through the Ages and Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them.
She married her second husband also in 2001.
Her son David was as you said a few months before the 5th book was released.
I’m not sure what your point is, and why you bring up the delay in the books of 2000 to 2003. But any number of things could explain the delay. Maybe she was busy writing and rewriting the other two books and getting married? Maybe her publishers refused to release it- in favor of creating a marketing fervor for the book when it was released (which if this was the case it worked brilliantly).
JK Rowling could sell a sentence written on a single piece of paper, for thousands of dollars let alone the millions of dollars that are made on one of her novels. I’m not sure her editors have a lot of control of what she writes… They don’t really need to. The Harry Potter books sell regardless.
Are the books top notch literary masterpieces? Nay. But they are fun, and frivolous, and a good summer read.
Those who insist on throwing the “magik” card into the mix will continue to get my request to PLEASE read “Finding God in Harry Potter”. There are many reflections of Christianity in these novels if you dare to explore it.
I’m not asking you to read Harry Potter itself, only the books by John Granger. If you still feel compelled to avoid Harry Potter, you have my respect and admiration for sticking to your word. I applaud any parent that is willing to stand up for their convictions when it comes to raising their kids. I myself refuse to have certain books in my home as well. But Harry Potter will always be welcome.
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Nan_S
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My speculation here has to do with the fact that J. K. Rowling announced the Book #5 final draft was sent to the publisher in time for the 2001 release date, then unexplained delays started happening. And I wondered whether they had to do with the publisher responsing to Christian uproar, by asking her to tone down the occult imagery.
Certainly there is a significant difference in the occult tone of Books #4 and 5. Book #4 gets heavily into detailed graphic descriptions of the dark arts: the Death Eater coven, cemetery setting, senseless murders, human sacrifice, unholy resurrection spells… Book #5 reads much more like a straight adventure tale.
My kids were given Harry Potter books as gifts, raved about them, and read them up myself - every word - to do what any good parent does - find out what my kids are up to. Knowing I couldn’t keep the books out I turned the tables a bit, and used their interest in Harry Potter magic as a means to teach them what the Bible and the Catechism say: All practices of magic or sorcery and all forms of divination are to be rejected. The Catholic Church has no exception for fantasy “magick.”
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Dandilion
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2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future… 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. … Wearing charms is also reprehensible.
.You are correct Nan Catholics need to be on guard for subtle attacks on the faith. Sometimes attacks can be in the form of movies or books offered by pop culture
.You are correct Nan Catholics need to be on guard for subtle attacks on the faith. Sometimes attacks can be in the form of movies or books offered by pop culture
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Monarchy
Guest
Nan S:
They were pulled out of Voldemorts wand. READ the book. I am paraphrasing, but in the book when two wands with cores from the same single animal are forced to be used against each other a Prior Incantatem occurs and causes the wand to replay it’s last spells cast in reverse order. Which wand does this depends on the willpower of the two wizards. Harry wins and Voldemort’s wand starts replaying it’s spells. He killed Harry’s parents and so a ‘shadow’ of them appears out of his wand
They were ‘shadows’ or remberences from Voldemort’s (LV) wand. That’s why you see the form of a hand when it happens, because he had given wormtail a hand to replace the one he took.
WRONG!!!
They were pulled out of Voldemorts wand. READ the book. I am paraphrasing, but in the book when two wands with cores from the same single animal are forced to be used against each other a Prior Incantatem occurs and causes the wand to replay it’s last spells cast in reverse order. Which wand does this depends on the willpower of the two wizards. Harry wins and Voldemort’s wand starts replaying it’s spells. He killed Harry’s parents and so a ‘shadow’ of them appears out of his wand
WRONG!!!
They were ‘shadows’ or remberences from Voldemort’s (LV) wand. That’s why you see the form of a hand when it happens, because he had given wormtail a hand to replace the one he took.
HE didn’t summon them. READ the book.
See above.
From what I have read, the pause was because she had gotten married and had a baby, and wanted some time.
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Shiann
Guest
Nan S:
You are correct that our Faith does not condone dabling in sorcery or invocational magic.
Invocational magic, which calls upon powers and principalities opposed to God, is what is proscribed by the Bible. Incantational magic is not only in keeping with a long tradition of English fantasy, it shows—in story form—our human thirst for a reality beyond the physical world a reality that points to Christ. Nowhere in the Harry Potter novels is invocational magic used—even among the evil wizards.
And if the Catholic Church has officially rejected Harry Potter, I have yet to see it…
I commend you on using this as a lesson for your children. That is exactly what I do.
You are correct that our Faith does not condone dabling in sorcery or invocational magic.
Invocational magic, which calls upon powers and principalities opposed to God, is what is proscribed by the Bible. Incantational magic is not only in keeping with a long tradition of English fantasy, it shows—in story form—our human thirst for a reality beyond the physical world a reality that points to Christ. Nowhere in the Harry Potter novels is invocational magic used—even among the evil wizards.
And if the Catholic Church has officially rejected Harry Potter, I have yet to see it…
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sanpablo
Guest
Nan S:
Also, you said:
Now, before you start denying that he WANTED to summon his dead parents, you need to remember that he spent, literally, hours and days being enthralled by the Mirror of Erised, wishing for his parents to be able to talk to him.
Well, I’d think that an 11 year old who never knew his parents would want to talk to them. Is that a sin? I really would like to talk to my grandfathers who I never knew.
I guess you’ve never written a book. They take a lot of going through and changing things. Especially if it is almost 900 pages long.
Also, you said:
Now, before you start denying that he WANTED to summon his dead parents, you need to remember that he spent, literally, hours and days being enthralled by the Mirror of Erised, wishing for his parents to be able to talk to him.
Well, I’d think that an 11 year old who never knew his parents would want to talk to them. Is that a sin? I really would like to talk to my grandfathers who I never knew.
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