Harry Potter books controversy

[ProdglArchitect]

For the life of me, I cannot imagine why any parent would want that garbage to go into their child’s mind. Somewhere I read, “We are what we read.” that makes a lot of sense to me. God Bless, Memaw

Because it’s not garbage. The novels are incredibly well researched and written, and have layers upon layers of nuance, deeply engaging characters, a relatable protagonist, and a series of antagonists who each reveal something of the brokenness of human nature. The inclusion of fantastical elements doesn’t automatically make something bad.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I find the two extremes of HP are these.

Camp A. HP is a demonic way to seduce kids to the occult, they are the lie of the serpent and jk should be burned at the stake!

Camp B. HP is cannon. It was written with an overt and very deep meaning and Christian purpose, it is a great work of literature and every child should read it. To keep it from a child is tantamount to cultural and theological starvation. It came on gold circles and was translated by the prophet Rowling. Much thought and many layers went into the intricate story.

For the rest of us, they are great stories told in a mediocre medium specifically told to make money. No more no less. That is what most books are…

 

[twf]

I find the two extremes of HP are these.

Camp A. HP is a demonic way to seduce kids to the occult, they are the lie of the serpent and jk should be burned at the stake!

Camp B. HP is cannon. It was written with an overt and very deep meaning and Christian purpose, it is a great work of literature and every child should read it. To keep it from a child is tantamount to cultural and theological starvation. It came on gold circles and was translated by the prophet Rowling. Much thought and many layers went into the intricate story.

For the rest of us, they are great stories told in a mediocre medium specifically told to make money. No more no less. That is what most books are…

Camp B is partly right. Rowling has acknowledged the Christian allegory, particularly in the 7th book.

 

[mcmlxix]

Thank you so much, everyone, for taking the time to respond! I appreciate your insights and I feel better about it!

Thank you and have a great long weekend!



Love you all!

M

 

[twf]

Thank you so much, everyone, for taking the time to respond! I appreciate your insights and I feel better about it!

Thank you and have a great long weekend!



Love you all!

M

I would encourage you to search up one of the many threads on this topic. I have posted on some of them. The themes of HP are very Christian- while there are no real spells in them, there are real Bible verses.

 

[pensmama87]

I find the two extremes of HP are these.

Camp A. HP is a demonic way to seduce kids to the occult, they are the lie of the serpent and jk should be burned at the stake!

Camp B. HP is cannon. It was written with an overt and very deep meaning and Christian purpose, it is a great work of literature and every child should read it. To keep it from a child is tantamount to cultural and theological starvation. It came on gold circles and was translated by the prophet Rowling. Much thought and many layers went into the intricate story.

For the rest of us, they are great stories told in a mediocre medium specifically told to make money. No more no less. That is what most books are…

Ugh, I can’t even believe I’m getting sucked into this. Maybe it’s leftover from my college and teaching days, because I argued a LOT about literature then…

I’ve defended HP a lot on these boards because the charges against them are ludicrous on their face, but I know now for the most part people who are against them already have their minds made up so it’s unlikely anything I will say will change their minds. It’s true that they employ a lot of Christian symbolism, including Scripture. That’s just fact. I don’t happen to think they’re “great literature,” but I do think they will probably remain popular because the story is rich despite not excellent writing (I assume that’s what you mean by “mediocre medium,” since the medium is just the written word or more specifically the novel) and because they strongly impacted the history of children’s and youth-oriented literature.

Even most classics are written to “make money.” Writers wish to make a living by writing. That - by itself - does not affect their quality (though one could make an argument about Dickens being paid by the word when his novels were published as serials…) But most if not all works considered classics today were written by their authors with the intention of making money, even if they were not necessarily successful during the author’s lifetime.

I don’t think that HP is dreck. I think it’s hugely enjoyable, entertaining, mostly clean reading, with several very good messages, though as the books progress they are intended for an older audience. I don’t think it’s the best series of books ever, and in fact they have several flaws, some of which become very grating during re-reading once you notice them (but probably aren’t noticed specifically by readers who don’t have an background in literature). But the occult accusations are wacky and absurd, and frankly I think it makes Christians look like loons when we insist on these things. There are other books that are much more dangerous, and obviously so, where we have a leg to stand on with decent literary criticism.

ETA: I really hope that’s all I post on this thread. Anti-intellectual stuff gets my dander up like crazy, because the suspicion of it is part of what kept me away from the Church for a long time.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Happy Our Lady of the Rosary day!

I am having a serious conundrum about the Harry Potter books.

I have always been an anti-book burning sort and believe that people should read everything. From topics you may or may not be interested in since knowledge is a very good thing especially in dispelling ignorance and of course, understanding differing points of view, etc.

My newly turned 8-year old daughter (daily communicant, faithful Catholic girl who attends a wonderful Catholic school) just finished the first Harry Potter book and totally loved it. I reminded her many times that sorcery is not of God and she needs to skip over the spells and incantations. Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP, - a great priest , is firmly against Harry Potter books as are many other priests. Even former satanist, Zachary King, who is now an fire Catholic, is completely against these books.

Based on the opinion of many good priests, I should not allow my daughter to read these books. My husband doesn’t feel the same way. He thinks it’s okay. His very good friend is a middle school teacher and faithful Catholic and believes if a child is reading the great books some pop-culture is okay. I don’t want to be a crazy mom who won’t allow my daughter to wear jeans and cut her hair but at the same time, I’m uneasy.

Are you okay with Harry Potter books? What do you think? I know the obvious answer is if I’m uncomfortable, I shouldn’t allow them. But my husband, is okay with it and I don’t know how far I should take this.

Thoughts?

Our Sunday Visitor (OSV) publishes a terrific book about Harry Potter that’s specifically for Catholic parents and includes an interview with Catholic novelist and homeschooling mom Regina Doman in the last section of the book. It also covers the concern over then Cardinal Ratzinger’s reply to a women who wrote him about the book (that note has been discussed ad nauseum here on many closed threads) and Michael O’Brien’s take on HP is included, too.

It’s called "The Mystery of Harry Potter: A Catholic Family Guide " and is authored by Nancy Carpentier Brown, a Catholic homeschooling mom who also wrote the Father Brown Readers from Catholic Heritage Curricula (homeschool curriculum provider).

For any Catholic that has concerns about HP, the book gives a balanced and hysteria-free look at HP and how to discern if it’s a good choice for your family and your children. I’m sure there are people out there who have read it and still think HP’s not a good choice for their family, but it gives a Catholic view of the series ( and the movies that were out when it was published) so that parents can make an educated choice for their own families, instead of getting caught up in the anti-Harry frenzy that seems to dominate those who haven’t bothered reading the books or those who form their opinions from the comments of others who haven’t read the books or haven’t done critical research on the series.

Here’s the book: amazon.com/Mystery-Harry-Potter-Catholic-Family/dp/1592763987?ie=UTF8&Version=1&entries=0

Here’s sample chapters: books.google.com/books?id=0KwSXnPbX_wC&pg=PA4&lpg=PA4&dq=our+sunday+visitor+harry+potter&source=bl&ots=By1HAsweZ5&sig=MSKwDgFI9pJbkkdasGzqXlmUZMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI9KCQzNfNAhWJTSYKHYCtCGIQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=our%20sunday%20visitor%20harry%20potter&f=false

Fr Luke Bell, OSB has also written a book about the series, sharing his thoughts and wisdom regarding HP and Catholicism: amazon.com/Baptizing-Harry-Potter-Christian-Reading/dp/1587680580/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465595341&sr=1-1-fkmr1&keywords=harry+potter+br+luke+bell

Sample pages for Father Bell’s book: books.google.com/books?id=szF_pLGmJTQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=baptizing+harry+potter&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeofXgzdfNAhWE2SYKHYNJBvwQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=baptizing%20harry%20potter&f=false

If you are truly interested in a Catholic viewpoint on Harry Potter, I recommend you read the two books I have listed above, as the authors have went to great lengths in their research on the series from a Catholic perspective.

 

[Rau]

…According to Father Ripperger some of the spells in Potter are real spells either in the books or movies or both, I dont remember. I would not want my child repeating or watching any spells what so ever.

“Real spells”? Seriously?

 

[Memaw]

The Harry Potter books are works of great imagination where love always triumphs over evil…
The “spells” are not ‘real’ spells for the simple reason there is no such thing…

Maybe you should tell the devil that!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

My Mom always told us that you don’t have to eat garbage to know it will make you sick. Don’t you think our young folks are getting enough garbage thrown at them today, and call it entertainment??? Why more!!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Convert_in_99]

Just do a forum search on Harry Potter and you’ll get more opinions than you could even dream of on this topic.

Every October it gets dredged up along with panic over Halloween. In a couple weeks the Santa threads will start as well as holier than thou mumbling about those who dare to enjoy a Christmas song before December 24th.

:stretcher:

Personally I find them a refreshing change of pace from the hot tempered modesty threads of the summer season.

 

[Lea101]

My super catholic mom loved them.

We watched all of the movies.

If your children reads/watches them + understands that magic is not real, just like how superman isn’t, they’ll be fine. And if they see people chanting spells etc, stay away bc magic is not real, and whatever you see comes from the devil. Now, if this will give your child nightmares, don’t say the second part lol…

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe you should tell the devil that!!! God Bless, Memaw

The books make it very clear that it is not possible for the person who is reading the book to succeed in magic. First, you need a wand that has to be made by a specific person, who does not exist. It comes from a store that you can only get to through a magic portal, which also does not exist. And the wand has to choose the person- the person does not choose the wand.

So even if someone reading the book were flighty enough to think that adding Latin endings to English words makes them into magic spells, they still wouldn’t expect that to work without the wand - which simply cannot be obtained - so, even the most gullible kid isn’t going to think he can be a wizard after reading Harry Potter.

 

[twf]

The books make it very clear that it is not possible for the person who is reading the book to succeed in magic. First, you need a wand that has to be made by a specific person, who does not exist. It comes from a store that you can only get to through a magic portal, which also does not exist. And the wand has to choose the person- the person does not choose the wand.

So even if someone reading the book were flighty enough to think that adding Latin endings to English words makes them into magic spells, they still wouldn’t expect that to work without the wand - which simply cannot be obtained - so, even the most gullible kid isn’t going to think he can be a wizard after reading Harry Potter.

Not to mention that it is a major plot point that one must be born a wizard. They are their own race, so to speak. Aunt Petunia is cruel to Harry throughout his entire childhood because of her deep, deep resentment of her witch sister…Petunia wasn’t born a witch and no matter how much she begged Professor Dumbledore, he could not teach her magic…it simply wasn’t possible. This completely refutes the common argument that the books will lure children into the occult. We aren’t talking about normal children who summon demonic powers. We’re talking about a fictional sub-race of magical humans with innate skills that cannot be learned unless you have them…

 

[twf]

My Mom always told us that you don’t have to eat garbage to know it will make you sick. Don’t you think our young folks are getting enough garbage thrown at them today, and call it entertainment??? Why more!!! God Bless, Memaw

So you’re aware of the Christian allegorical nature of much of the story and still dismiss it as garbage? Rowling, the author, has come out and said that the Christian symbolism was very deliberate. Its very similar to Lord of the Rings and Narnia to my mind - which I never see Catholics attacking. Anyone who takes issue with the genre needs to read “On Faerie Stories” by Tolkien - a great Catholic and a great scholar.

 

[AbideWithMe]

My personal objection with them is not occult driven but rather it’s just bad writing.
…

She is no Tolkien, or Lewis, but she isn’t all bad.

Have you thought of starting with Lewis or Tolkien and THEN moving to potter if the child enjoys that type of story.

I’d start with Lewis, too. Give your daughter a taste of truly charming, skilled writing first to let her develop her own critical sense of goodness in subject matter and writing styles.

 

[redbetta]

By the way, I usually only see these kinds of threads with Harry Potter. Why is it that so many people have a beef with Harry Potter and don’t attack other popular entertainment?

 

[jmcrae]

By the way, I usually only see these kinds of threads with Harry Potter. Why is it that so many people have a beef with Harry Potter and don’t attack other popular entertainment?

I’m as baffled as you are. I think “Bedknobs and Broomsticks” has way more potential to lure kids into the occult than “Harry Potter” but no one seems to start crazy threads about that one. It’s just an updated faerie tale; no problem.

 

[redbetta]

I’m as baffled as you are. I think “Bedknobs and Broomsticks” has way more potential to lure kids into the occult than “Harry Potter” but no one seems to start crazy threads about that one. It’s just an updated faerie tale; no problem.

I’ve never heard of that movie. Perhaps it’s just because Harry Potter is so popular. I know we are supposed to live in the world, but, not be of it, but, I guess the anti-Harry Potter types takes this too far and get the feeling that, anything that “the world” likes is automatically morally corrosive.

By the way, since this topic is brought up, I wonder which pieces of entertainment tend to get people’s panties in a bunch. I know you can easily find lists of books banned for silly reasons, but, I wonder what people can come up with drawing from years of forum experience.

 

[LiamQ]

Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP, - a great priest , is firmly against Harry Potter books as are many other priests. Even former satanist, Zachary King, who is now an fire Catholic, is completely against these books.

I have a couple of things to say about this.

Fr. Ripperger believes Harry Potter is dangerous partly because he’s convinced that some of the characters are deliberately named after demons, and that reading those demons’ names attracts them. I personally find this claim extremely unlikely. I’ve looked through a list of characters in the books, and the only thing I can find that might remotely fall into this category are names from mythology.

Father also believes that the spells are real spells, because there’s a lady in Spain who he claims tried using one of them and burned her house down. I’m sorry, but I think that’s one heck of a weird stretch.

Mr. King I would encourage you to treat with a grain of salt. I also have a background in satanism, and I made contact with him a few months ago to discuss some things. He asked me to call him, but then never picked up my calls, and never returned them, and never returned a further attempt to speak with him. Now, obviously, there’s lots of explanations for that. But there’s a lot fishy about his stories to begin with, which are quite outlandish, and the fact that he goes on secular conspiracy theory radio shows to talk about the illuminati likewise causes one to recoil a bit in skepticism. I’m not saying he’s wrong, but I would encourage you to consider whether he’s a credible source. Until he actually stands by his offer to discuss some things with me personally, I’m not assuming him to be utterly correct in all of his claims. I’m sorry, but we’re not called as Christians to be suckers.

In fact, I would also urge a bit of caution with regard to Father Ripperger, who is an incredibly intelligent priest, but who likewise has some very extreme positions on lots of things, ranging from movies to the New Mass to psychology. A good friend of ours is a Dominican friar, and he’s absolutely a solid Thomist and an incredibly holy man. I ran by him Fr. Ripperger’s ideas on why any movie that has a non-simulated sin in it should be thrown out, and his philosophical reasons for thinking so, and our friend was very much so in disagreement. But someone who doesn’t know better might look at Father Ripperger and assume that he’s teaching Catholicism while everyone else is watered down and insipid. That’s not the case. He may just be a bit out there, too. So yes, one man’s opinion: don’t treat him as an unimpeachable source. Also, he’s no longer in the FSSP. He left it to found a society of exorcists, which has since been suppressed by the Bishop.