Harry Potter books controversy

[LiamQ]

By the way, my own views on Harry Potter:

I read the works a few years back, or at least the first five. I found them to be very entertaining, and I enjoyed them. They’re fun, and Rowling is obviously a genius.

But I was also a sort of occultist at the time, and I do have to say I think the works provide an interesting world in which the occult takes the center stage, and wherein one can examine that world in an entertaining way.

I’ve never, ever understood why some people are against the idea that these books could be seeds that are planted in certain children’s minds, and which could predispose them to consider the preternatural world.

Some children, absolutely, will wonder whether spells are real, and yes, they will try them. Yes, they may well open themselves to the demonic because of books like these. Saying, “Well, the spells aren’t real” isn’t sufficient. A child’s desire to examine the preternatural is sufficient sometimes for the preternatural world to examine your child.

So I would personally encourage folks to think long and hard about this with their own kids. I can understand if you think the works are innocent, but do consider that they might influence kids in a certain direction, because kids are extremely impressionable. Rationalizing that, I think, is very unfair.

 

[Allegra]

I have read most of the books and I don’t think there is anything wrong with them. The spells are so obviously made up that I have to wonder about the mental state of anyone who claims otherwise. I don’t care if they are a Mensa member or a priest or whoever. I’ve read the “magic words” in the books and they’re obviously hokey, fake, latinish sounding concoctions. I’m not going to take some outrageous, unsubstantiated claims made by a person I’ve never spoken to over my own experience. Seriously. If you try to tell me that I should believe that saying “wingardium leviosa” will make stuff float all I can say is you are either crazy or stupid. Or deliberately attempting to deceive people.

The books, in my opinion, are morally sound and actually promote a great deal of virtue for young people. They are elaborate, imaginative stories. I think for a second grader, there might be a concern about some of the violence and death in the story line, particularly in the last few books of the series, but depending on how fast she reads, she might be read for those by the time she gets there.

I fully intend to let my children read them and even watch the films when they are older.

 

[LiamQ]

If you try to tell me that I should believe that saying “wingardium leviosa” will make stuff float all I can say is you are either crazy or stupid.

The issue isn’t whether or not those specific words will have an effect.

The issue is whether or not there is such a thing as spells, and if so, why and how they work. That’s a question that some kids will ask, and they will attempt to find an answer.

As you know, children wonder about things and they treat adults whom they respect as authority figures who can teach them about how the world works. Tapping into that with literature is a very real possibility.

I also want to encourage you to consider that although you might think that certain words are innocent and even stupid, a child may not. She may very well try certain magical sounding words to determine if they do anything. OK, so they won’t, right? But maybe that won’t be the end of the experiment. Maybe they’ll keep looking, and maybe they’ll find something you don’t want them finding.

But these are issues of prudence. I would just encourage you to consider that it’s not crazy or stupid to be cautious about guarding children against occultic seed-planting. Especially if you don’t know enough about the occult to recognize it, or the ways in which one is drawn to it.

 

[jmcrae]

By the way, my own views on Harry Potter:

I read the works a few years back, or at least the first five. I found them to be very entertaining, and I enjoyed them. They’re fun, and Rowling is obviously a genius.

But I was also a sort of occultist at the time, and I do have to say I think the works provide an interesting world in which the occult takes the center stage, and wherein one can examine that world in an entertaining way.

I’ve never, ever understood why some people are against the idea that these books could be seeds that are planted in certain children’s minds, and which could predispose them to consider the preternatural world.

Some children, absolutely, will wonder whether spells are real, and yes, they will try them. Yes, they may well open themselves to the demonic because of books like these. Saying, “Well, the spells aren’t real” isn’t sufficient. A child’s desire to examine the preternatural is sufficient sometimes for the preternatural world to examine your child.

So I would personally encourage folks to think long and hard about this with their own kids. I can understand if you think the works are innocent, but do consider that they might influence kids in a certain direction, because kids are extremely impressionable. Rationalizing that, I think, is very unfair.

Why would “Harry Potter” be more dangerous in that regard than, say, “Cinderella,” or “Sleeping Beauty”?

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, exactly. It seems as if most children’s literature invokes magic of some kind.

 

[Memaw]

Why would “Harry Potter” be more dangerous in that regard than, say, “Cinderella,” or “Sleeping Beauty”?

Maybe it’s got something to do with the times were living in and that our children are not being taught critical thinking and we seem to be pushing God out of everything and letting this kinds of stuff right in. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Rau]

My Mom always told us that you don’t have to eat garbage to know it will make you sick.

So, was it the covers of the books that convinced you?

 

[Allegra]

The issue isn’t whether or not those specific words will have an effect.

The issue is whether or not there is such a thing as spells, and if so, why and how they work. That’s a question that some kids will ask, and they will attempt to find an answer.

As you know, children wonder about things and they treat adults whom they respect as authority figures who can teach them about how the world works. Tapping into that with literature is a very real possibility.

I also want to encourage you to consider that although you might think that certain words are innocent and even stupid, a child may not. She may very well try certain magical sounding words to determine if they do anything. OK, so they won’t, right? But maybe that won’t be the end of the experiment. Maybe they’ll keep looking, and maybe they’ll find something you don’t want them finding.

But these are issues of prudence. I would just encourage you to consider that it’s not crazy or stupid to be cautious about guarding children against occultic seed-planting. Especially if you don’t know enough about the occult to recognize it, or the ways in which one is drawn to it.

There’s a difference between a parent being genuinely cautious about the subject matter their young child reads and a fear-mongering nutjob making outrageous claims such as imaginary words are “real spells”. The two are simply not the same and the later has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. If a parent is legitimately concerned about a story about a pretend wizard leading their child to explore the occult then that is something to be taken seriously.

I would advise them to consider things like, how closely (if at all) the fictional magic resembles real life occult practices. The intelligence and maturity of their specific child. Also, whether that specific child have a history of being caught up in things like this and becoming too obsessed with it. (Not necessarily related to the occult aspect, but really easy to do with this kind of story.) Also, the age of the child and the amount of supervision the parent can or will provide them. (Information on the occult has to come from somewhere.) Finally, does the child understand the dangers involved in real life occult practices and why they are expected to avoid them. OF course, this requires a parent to consider their own child’s situation and not make sweeping generalizations about everyone else’s kid.

The other thing I would urge a parent to consider is whether or not this is coming from a place of everyone-in-the-evil-secular-world-seems-to-love-it-therefore-it-must-be-bad. Not everything that is popular is automatically from the devil. I have to wonder why I don’t hear these same arguments presented about Superman or that weird fairy puppet on Sesame Street. They have extraordinary powers as well. Why aren’t we concerned that kids will start questioning whether they can fly off the garage or change their brother into a frog? Is Harry Potter really all that dangerous, or do we just not like it because everyone else does? (And we don’t want to have to buy our kid a whole bunch of merchandise)

While not reading Harry Potter certainly isn’t going to ruin a child, growing up under that sort of mindset IS really harmful. When a parent goes around pointing at everything that the world thinks is cool and insists it must be evil, corrupt, garbage, dirty, or what have you, kids begin to notice. Particularly when the adults don’t have a logical reason for saying so. It ends up ruining the credibility of the parent on the subject of morality. Eventually, the kids begin to look at the parents the way I look at the alleged priest who insists that some lady in Spain burned down her house by shouting “enflameous burnio!”.

This is going to present a challenge for the kids when they have to discern for themselves what is evil or good. If mom and dad have already shot up their credibility ranting and raving about Harry Potter (which is at most slightly questionable) , where do they go with lying, gossip, immodest clothing, missing Mass, and premarital sex?

 

[Lou2U]

There’s a difference between a parent being genuinely cautious about the subject matter their young child reads and a fear-mongering nutjob making outrageous claims such as imaginary words are “real spells”. The two are simply not the same and the later has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. If a parent is legitimately concerned about a story about a pretend wizard leading their child to explore the occult then that is something to be taken seriously.

I would advise them to consider things like, how closely (if at all) the fictional magic resembles real life occult practices. The intelligence and maturity of their specific child. Also, whether that specific child have a history of being caught up in things like this and becoming too obsessed with it. (Not necessarily related to the occult aspect, but really easy to do with this kind of story.) Also, the age of the child and the amount of supervision the parent can or will provide them. (Information on the occult has to come from somewhere.) Finally, does the child understand the dangers involved in real life occult practices and why they are expected to avoid them. OF course, this requires a parent to consider their own child’s situation and not make sweeping generalizations about everyone else’s kid.

The other thing I would urge a parent to consider is whether or not this is coming from a place of everyone-in-the-evil-secular-world-seems-to-love-it-therefore-it-must-be-bad. Not everything that is popular is automatically from the devil. I have to wonder why I don’t hear these same arguments presented about Superman or that weird fairy puppet on Sesame Street. They have extraordinary powers as well. Why aren’t we concerned that kids will start questioning whether they can fly off the garage or change their brother into a frog? Is Harry Potter really all that dangerous, or do we just not like it because everyone else does? (And we don’t want to have to buy our kid a whole bunch of merchandise)

While not reading Harry Potter certainly isn’t going to ruin a child, growing up under that sort of mindset IS really harmful. When a parent goes around pointing at everything that the world thinks is cool and insists it must be evil, corrupt, garbage, dirty, or what have you, kids begin to notice. Particularly when the adults don’t have a logical reason for saying so. It ends up ruining the credibility of the parent on the subject of morality. Eventually, the kids begin to look at the parents the way I look at the alleged priest who insists that some lady in Spain burned down her house by shouting “enflameous burnio!”.

This is going to present a challenge for the kids when they have to discern for themselves what is evil or good. If mom and dad have already shot up their credibility ranting and raving about Harry Potter (which is at most slightly questionable) , where do they go with lying, gossip, immodest clothing, missing Mass, and premarital sex?

I can’t see why Harry Potter is evil and things such as the Lord of the Rings is not. Both have wizards in, both have spells and creatures that aren’t real. As long as children are able to distinguish between what is real and what’s fantasy, there should be no problem.

Lou

 

[Allegra]

I would imagine so. I’ve read those books for years and I’ve yet to come to that conclusion.

 

[on_the_hill]

The “spells” in Harry Potter are just bits of Latin stuck together. They certainly aren’t real

Lou

A few years ago when my 9th grade daughter was in 2nd grade she brought home one of those Scholastic Books order forms and wanted to buy the “Wizards of Waverly Place Book of Spells.” You might recall Wizards as a Disney Channel sitcom.

I said no. We bought tons of books that way, but that particular one seemed a little too silly to spend money on. She kept asking, I kept saying no. Then she said the most adorable thing: “We promise we won’t use them on anybody!”

I still said no, but it was such a sweet, innocent plea it melted my heart.

 

[Lou2U]

Yes, I agree. The concept that the magical abilities in HP are inherent is made obvious from Harry’s aunt, Petunia, and her bitterness of not being able to do what her sister could.

**Memaw **, what makes you say Harry Potter is garbage? You haven’t read the books, so I’m curious as to why you think it is?

A few years ago when my 9th grade daughter was in 2nd grade she brought home one of those Scholastic Books order forms and wanted to buy the “Wizards of Waverly Place Book of Spells.” You might recall Wizards as a Disney Channel sitcom.

I said no. We bought tons of books that way, but that particular one seemed a little too silly to spend money on. She kept asking, I kept saying no. Then she said the most adorable thing: “We promise we won’t use them on anybody!”

I still said no, but it was such a sweet, innocent plea it melted my heart.

Awww! That’s so sweet of her!

Lou

 

[Allegra]

I break this down to mean that the elves’ magic is of a different nature than Sauron’s to the extent that they aren’t the same thing. But they both exist in the story so I don’t see how this is any different from the magic that exists in Harry Potter.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

Why would “Harry Potter” be more dangerous in that regard than, say, “Cinderella,” or “Sleeping Beauty”?

“Bippidty Boppidty Boo” just doesn’t seem very threatening, somehow…

 

[DlandFan06]

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ! Happy Our Lady of the Rosary day!

I am having a serious conundrum about the Harry Potter books.

I have always been an anti-book burning sort and believe that people should read everything. From topics you may or may not be interested in since knowledge is a very good thing especially in dispelling ignorance and of course, understanding differing points of view, etc.

My newly turned 8-year old daughter (daily communicant, faithful Catholic girl who attends a wonderful Catholic school) just finished the first Harry Potter book and totally loved it. I reminded her many times that sorcery is not of God and she needs to skip over the spells and incantations. Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP, - a great priest , is firmly against Harry Potter books as are many other priests. Even former satanist, Zachary King, who is now an fire Catholic, is completely against these books.

Based on the opinion of many good priests, I should not allow my daughter to read these books. My husband doesn’t feel the same way. He thinks it’s okay. His very good friend is a middle school teacher and faithful Catholic and believes if a child is reading the great books some pop-culture is okay. I don’t want to be a crazy mom who won’t allow my daughter to wear jeans and cut her hair but at the same time, I’m uneasy.

Are you okay with Harry Potter books? What do you think? I know the obvious answer is if I’m uncomfortable, I shouldn’t allow them. But my husband, is okay with it and I don’t know how far I should take this.

Thoughts?

I think 8 is a little young to read a Harry Potter book. I started reading them when I was 11/12 and I thought it was all make believe. Maybe next time have your child read them when they are older?

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

Not to mention that it is a major plot point that one must be born a wizard. They are their own race, so to speak. Aunt Petunia is cruel to Harry throughout his entire childhood because of her deep, deep resentment of her witch sister…Petunia wasn’t born a witch and no matter how much she begged Professor Dumbledore, he could not teach her magic…it simply wasn’t possible. This completely refutes the common argument that the books will lure children into the occult. We aren’t talking about normal children who summon demonic powers. We’re talking about a fictional sub-race of magical humans with innate skills that cannot be learned unless you have them…

This. Very much so.

Being pagan, I know a number of witches/wiccans, and I can’t say I personally know any that think the “Harry Potter” books were a guide to becoming a practicing witch. They’re viewed as what they are–entertainment.

 

[jmcrae]

This. Very much so.

Being pagan, I know a number of witches/wiccans, and I can’t say I personally know any that think the “Harry Potter” books were a guide to becoming a practicing witch. They’re viewed as what they are–entertainment.

In school I knew two people who got into that stuff, and it was long before “Harry Potter” came along. I doubt either of them would consider him to be one of themselves.

 

[Allegra]

It occurs to me that the real focus of the thread shouldn’t be whether or not Harry Potter books are a legitimate danger to kids, but what should a couple do when they disagree about whether or not a kid should be allowed to do something. Growing up, the answer was simple. Mom was always right. I’m not sure that’s going to fly in my marriage as I married someone who I anticipate will be actively involved in parenting and actually have a spine. So, ignoring the immediately obvious question of whether or not Harry Potter is a problem, what should a couple do when they disagree about something being a problem?

 

[Lea101]

It occurs to me that the real focus of the thread shouldn’t be whether or not Harry Potter books are a legitimate danger to kids, but what should a couple do when they disagree about whether or not a kid should be allowed to do something. Growing up, the answer was simple. Mom was always right. I’m not sure that’s going to fly in my marriage as I married someone who I anticipate will be actively involved in parenting and actually have a spine. So, ignoring the immediately obvious question of whether or not Harry Potter is a problem, what should a couple do when they disagree about something being a problem?

My mom loved Harry Potter, dad hates it bc he has the same view that it was bad and all…

Basically my mom promised to ‘teach’ us why black magic is wrong before watching it. Surprisingly my dad agreed. She was the better Catholic after all.

It did work out, but this might not work for everybody. My protestant’s friend mom has a degree in literature and she basically reads HP with my friend and explore the themes (good ones) so my friend was focused on them, not the magic side of the story (treated as a sort of fantasy). I feel like it could be a good bonding activity…

 

[jmcrae]

It occurs to me that the real focus of the thread shouldn’t be whether or not Harry Potter books are a legitimate danger to kids, but what should a couple do when they disagree about whether or not a kid should be allowed to do something. Growing up, the answer was simple. Mom was always right. I’m not sure that’s going to fly in my marriage as I married someone who I anticipate will be actively involved in parenting and actually have a spine. So, ignoring the immediately obvious question of whether or not Harry Potter is a problem, what should a couple do when they disagree about something being a problem?

They need to discuss it between themselves out of earshot of the kids (and given that kids have sharp hearing and can zero in on any weaknesses between Mom and Dad, it’s best to make a date at the pub or somewhere else that little ears can’t listen in from the next room) and be open to each other’s concerns and point of view. In general, the more cautious parent should usually “win” unless it would be detrimental to the children’s education or ability to fit in and make friends.