Harry Potter books

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That is what makes it FUN for kids to read! They can escape their reality and go into the book world! That is not a bad thing! It is an adventure, an escape, a fantasy, and using their imagination.
I agree, it was a really good book and that particular theme doesn’t bother me, (I had a long running imaginary world where I was an orphan in a very strict strange orphanage) but if parents have problems with the Harry Potter series, they might very well have a problem with a theme like that.
 
The horse is beaten, dead, skinned, and made into products.

O’Brien has been discredited repeatedly. Do a search on these boards. The Pope has NEVER taken a stance on HP. Ever.
After discussing this comment privately with Catholic90, I can report back that he hasn’t discredited O’Brien at all. He does not deny that the correspondence between Cardinal Ratzinger and Mrs. Kuby is genuine. So if one can read:
It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle
seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity
in the soul, before it can grow properly.
And conclude that doesn’t constitute “taking a stance” on Harry Potter, then he hasn’t taken a stance, but I don’t find that conclusion reasonable.

Pax Christi
 
After discussing this comment privately with Catholic90, I can report back that he hasn’t discredited O’Brien at all. He does not deny that the correspondence between Cardinal Ratzinger and Mrs. Kuby is genuine. So if one can read:

And conclude that doesn’t constitute “taking a stance” on Harry Potter, then he hasn’t taken a stance, but I don’t find that conclusion reasonable.

Pax Christi
Dan, don’t blatantly lie !!!:mad:

What I SAID to you was that the info has been discussed in the MULTIPLE threads about HP in the past and YOU were to search for them and re-read them. I am not going to do your homework for you.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!:mad:
 
Heck, Dan does not even read my signature, so I suppose I should not be too surprise he does not want to do his own homework and read through the volumes of old threads.

Dan, don’t lie. You have shown your true self. Unbelievable.:mad:
 
I asked that my son’s third grade teacher to prevent him from reading any of the Potter books and was wondering if there were any other books (besides Narnia and Tokien) that are at that same level, without the occult stuff. I would love to hear some suggestions!
Don’t worry about Harry Potter. It’s actually an incredibly wholesome, Christian book series in its structure, themes, and imagery. There’s not actually anything occult in it, just made-up fantasy magic.
There is nothing wrong with Harry Potter it’s actually a very Christian message much like most of CS Lewis’ works. Don’t listen to the protestant fundies who continually look for the devil in everything rather than focusing on Christ and find His message.

Harry Potter, the series, is about sacrifice, faithfulness, friendship and how our actions actually matter… all in all a pretty Catholic series IMHO.
Yep! In the ways you mention, and in several other respects as well! 🙂
As a parent I think it is irresponsible not to censor eveything your children read, watch on tv, sites on the computer, listen to on the radio(MP3 player) etc. especially a young child. As our schools are pushing all this politically correct garbage one needs to be aware of what their children are being taught and what they read. We are responsible for our childrens education first and foremost and we are responsible for leading our children to Christ and towards heaven.
I agree; that’s why I think it’s inappropriate to make such a request of a teacher or school librarian. It’s not the librarian’s job to monitor what books kids check out of the school library. It’s the parents’.
Meh, I’m with Dan on the message of being concerned with the Harry Potter novels… and yes, I’d be likewise concerned with ancient mythology, LoTR, etc, etc.
You recommend The Chronicles of Narnia, yet you say you have a problem with children engaging with ancient mythology in literature? You are aware that Lewis borrows extensively from real pagan mythology in that series, right? For instance, the Pevensie girls engage in a celebration with Bacchus in Prince Caspian; Bacchus is the name of an actual pagan Roman god.

I think mythology is a wonderful thing in literature, so I’m all for Narnia, but I just wondered about your concern “with ancient mythology” in light of your recommendations…
some Catholics like Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI)?
He does not deny that the correspondence between Cardinal Ratzinger and Mrs. Kuby is genuine. So if one can read.
Pope Benedict XVI has never taken a stance on Harry Potter. Please see the following links for more info:

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/pre16_on_harry_.html

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/lifesitenews_ca.html

hogwartsprofessor.com/rita-skeeter-covers-the-vatican/
 
HELLO THERE! 🙂

**I may be getting a late start here on the subject, but I shall add my :twocents: **.

First of all: To address your question regarding good, safe books for your children, I’d like to suggest THE BOXCAR CHILDREN SERIES by GERTRUDE CHANDLER WARNER!

Excellent stories!!

As for HARRY POTTER 🙂

When my daughter was in 3rd grade, Harry was REQUIRED reading.

I was livid because I had heard all the “HORROR” stories of the EVIL Potter Books!!

So, out of concern for my daughter, I READ THEM FIRST!!!

Well, I must tell you I LOVED THEM!!
I have become a bigger fan than my daughter EVER was! 😃

And, that is my best advice to you.
READ THEM YOURSELF FIRST!
I think you’ll be surprised.👍
 
I asked that my son’s third grade teacher to prevent him from reading any of the Potter books and was wondering if there were any other books (besides Narnia and Tokien) that are at that same level, without the occult stuff. I would love to hear some suggestions!

Thank you in advance!
Well, the whole point of the series is best summed up by Mark, Ch 8, 35-36:

"Anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake, and for the sake of the gospel, will save it.

What gain, then, is it for anyone to win the whole world and forfeit his life?"

I can’t think of any other children’s stories that warns of the eternal consequences of attaching oneself to things of this world and being too wrapped up in this life vice the next. And that is portrayed in a very clear literal way.

Now, it is an awfully long story for a third grader since the point is driven home in the final book. I would recommend reading them first yourself so you can point out the symbology and help your child see the christian elements in the story.
 
I asked that my son’s third grade teacher to prevent him from reading any of the Potter books and was wondering if there were any other books (besides Narnia and Tokien) that are at that same level, without the occult stuff. I would love to hear some suggestions!

Thank you in advance!
The only reason I was glad I read the Tolkien LOTR series was I was able to enjoy Lampoons ‘Bored of the Rings’.

Are you just interested in fiction, or have you considered non-fiction as well? It was in second/third grade that I took an interest in WWII history. Our (catholic) elementary school had a book “Great American Fighter Pilots of WWII’.” which led to me reading everything I could get my hands on about the air campaigns in Europe and the Pacific. I couldn’t believe that some folks I talked to didn’t understand the significance of the Enola Gay, F4U Corsair, and P-40 in the Smithsonian scene in the second Transformers movie. Wonderful visual commentary on opposition to evil, consequences of appeasement and hesitancy to confront evil. Anyway, it did rapidly accelerate my reading level as well as begin to give me an awareness of right/wrong/evil/good in the real world on a global scale.

In third grade I also started reading western novels by Zane Grey and Louis L’amour. I can’t remember much other than conveyed a sense of right and wrong, standing up for the defenseless etc. Not entirely sure how appropriate they were just know I enjoyed them and couldn’t put them down.
 
My youngest are fifth graders now so I don’t quite remember what they were reading in 3rd grade as it’s been a rather eventful couple of years, but here’s some reading lists:

Third Grade Reading List

Fourth Grade Reading List

Fifth Grade Reading List

As far as the Harry Potter novels–well, I remember reading once that the author’s ideal target was no younger than 2 years younger than Harry (so 9 year olds for book 1 up to 15 year olds for book 7). But I’d put the series as a “PG” (parental guidance) … know your own child(ren) before making a decision (and read the books yourself). What disturbs me most about those who oppose reading these novels is that they seem willing to play extremely fast and loose with the truth (misrepresentation of the actual content of the books themselves, misrepresentation of statements by others about the books).
 
I was livid because I had heard all the “HORROR” stories of the EVIL Potter Books!!

So, out of concern for my daughter, I READ THEM FIRST!!!

Well, I must tell you I LOVED THEM!!
I have become a bigger fan than my daughter EVER was! 😃

And, that is my best advice to you.
READ THEM YOURSELF FIRST!
I think you’ll be surprised.👍
Well said! 🙂
Well, the whole point of the series is best summed up by Mark, Ch 8, 35-36:

"Anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake, and for the sake of the gospel, will save it.

What gain, then, is it for anyone to win the whole world and forfeit his life?"

I can’t think of any other children’s stories that warns of the eternal consequences of attaching oneself to things of this world and being too wrapped up in this life vice the next. And that is portrayed in a very clear literal way.

Now, it is an awfully long story for a third grader since the point is driven home in the final book. I would recommend reading them first yourself so you can point out the symbology and help your child see the christian elements in the story.
Exactly. I love it when you contribute to these Harry Potter threads, styrgwillidar.
 
Well said! 🙂

THANKS!:tiphat:

IF I may add one more comment…

The “witch/wizard” element of these books is no different than the “witch/wizard” element in the WIZARD OF OZ books.

In the end-GOOD WINS! and EVIL is vanquished by the “HERO/HEROINE”

That’s certainly (in my opinion) a good argument FOR the “BOY WHO LIVED!” 😃

GOOD LUCK and please let us know what you decide…especially if you find that Harry’s not such a bad guy after all. hehe!!😉
 
After discussing this comment privately with Catholic90, I can report back that he hasn’t discredited O’Brien at all. He does not deny that the correspondence between Cardinal Ratzinger and Mrs. Kuby is genuine. So if one can read:

And conclude that doesn’t constitute “taking a stance” on Harry Potter, then he hasn’t taken a stance, but I don’t find that conclusion reasonable.

Pax Christi
The only wat that you can conclude that this is the Pope’s opinion on the book can only be reached by taking his comments out of context.
 
Well said! 🙂

Exactly. I love it when you contribute to these Harry Potter threads, styrgwillidar.
Thank you. It is such a long story that those who just don’t like Rowling’s style or the genre don’t ever get to see it all brought together at the end. So, a third grader starting it probably won’t end up finishing it for years.
 
Don’t worry about Harry Potter. It’s actually an incredibly wholesome, Christian book series in its structure, themes, and imagery. There’s not actually anything occult in it, just made-up fantasy magic.
I’m sorry, outside of the themes of good vs evil, someone dying and coming back, and look out for your friends, there’s not much Christian here. The story is secular humanist to the core, and even those three things mentioned above could just as easily be attributed to pagan mythology, etc.

As to there not being anything of the occult in it, yes there is… you just aren’t aware of the proper idea of what the occult is. The occult is the idea that there is a neutral power source other than God’s grace or the demons, and that one can tap into this neutral power source to activate power for onesself. That, at it’s root core, is the falsity of the occult… because there is ONLY God’s grace, or evil. The idea that the hero and the villain both draw from the same power, and it is only how we choose to use that power is objectively wrong because there is no such thing.

This is why I advocate DISCUSSING with children while they read it… so that they understand that there is ONLY grace and nothing else that can righteously afford us anything, and that the idea of magic as a neutral “third source” is fiction.
You recommend The Chronicles of Narnia, yet you say you have a problem with children engaging with ancient mythology in literature? You are aware that Lewis borrows extensively from real pagan mythology in that series, right? For instance, the Pevensie girls engage in a celebration with Bacchus in Prince Caspian; Bacchus is the name of an actual pagan Roman god.

I think mythology is a wonderful thing in literature, so I’m all for Narnia, but I just wondered about your concern “with ancient mythology” in light of your recommendations…
I don’t think that one should let a child read Narnia without discussing it closely as well, and I’m not opposed to them reading pagan mythology or Harry Potter as well, provided that there is discussion and guidance involved.

HOWEVER, if your objection were sound, then we would have a problem with calling the days of the week what we do as well… having a “Bacchus” in Narnia is NOTHING like the pagan presentation of him, because Bacchus’ character is utterly without power unless he relies on Aslan (if you’d read the whole chronicles, you would know this). The only appearance of the ACTUAL occult in the series is on an island, where special warning is given NOT to engage in trying to use “third party powers” and when the child does, the result is bad news for them.

So, recap: Lewis’ use of fanciful names is not wrong, precisely because he portrays these characters as without any sort of “power” of their own. All characters in the book operate because Aslan, who isn’t just a christian allegory, but IS Christ in the story, gives them the ability to operate.

You’ll kindly note that the Pevensies salvation from situations CONSTANTLY relies on the God character in the book… and before you say it, Harry Potter is NOT a christian “God character”

Anyway, this is all off topic, I was merely answering the OP’s question about series I WOULD recommend AND stating that reading HP is actually okay.
 
As to there not being anything of the occult in it, yes there is… you just aren’t aware of the proper idea of what the occult is. The occult is the idea that** there is a neutral power source other than God’s grace or the demons, and that one can tap into this neutral power source to activate power for onesself. ** That, at it’s root core, is the falsity of the occult… because there is ONLY God’s grace, or evil. The idea that the hero and the villain both draw from the same power, and it is only how we choose to use that power is objectively wrong because there is no such thing.
And here is where your argument falls apart.

There is no power source in HP. The ability to be a wizard or not is innate. They are either born with the ability, or they are not. One who is not born with it cannot possibly draw from anything to be a wizard. It is like being born with Type A blood. Either you are born with it, or you are not.

There are Wizards and there are Muggles. What frustrates Petunia Dursley is that she is a Muggle. She is not a wizard. Her sister Lily was a wizard. Nothing, absolutely nothing, that Petunia could do or draw upon would ever make her a wizard.

There is no external power source to draw upon. They have the ability, or they don’t. Period.

But this is veering of course.

OP, read the HP books yourself.
 
As to there not being anything of the occult in it, yes there is… you just aren’t aware of the proper idea of what the occult is. The occult is the idea that there is a neutral power source other than God’s grace or the demons, and that one can tap into this neutral power source to activate power for onesself. That, at it’s root core, is the falsity of the occult… because there is ONLY God’s grace, or evil. The idea that the hero and the villain both draw from the same power, and it is only how we choose to use that power is objectively wrong because there is no such thing.

.
Even using this generalized definition of occult, Harry Potter doesn’t meet the qualifications. THe characters in the book do not tap their powers from a “neutral power source”. The magic in the story is portrayed as a natural ability. This is stated several times throughout the series, that a person can not obtain magical ability. They either have it or they do not.A real-world comparison would be that some people are born with the ability to hear and some are born death. Any attempt to obtain superior power from an outside source is portrayed throughout the series as a dangerous temptation or downright evil.
 
Even using this generalized definition of occult, Harry Potter doesn’t meet the qualifications. THe characters in the book do not tap their powers from a “neutral power source”. The magic in the story is portrayed as a natural ability. This is stated several times throughout the series, that a person can not obtain magical ability. They either have it or they do not.A real-world comparison would be that some people are born with the ability to hear and some are born death. Any attempt to obtain superior power from an outside source is portrayed throughout the series as a dangerous temptation or downright evil.
I would also quibble about the phrase “neutral power source.” This phrase could also let people reject science and technology as a neutral power source. The thing with the occult is that power either comes from God or from Satan, thus occult power is not a neutral power source but rather an evil source.
 
I would also quibble about the phrase “neutral power source.” This phrase could also let people reject science and technology as a neutral power source. The thing with the occult is that power either comes from God or from Satan, thus occult power is not a neutral power source but rather an evil source.
I think the poster meant that the people who practice the occult consider the “source” to be neutral, while we know that it isn’t. However, neutral or evil, such a source isn’t present in Harry Potter.
 
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