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promethius
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I’m done with discussing this. You can carry on as you like.
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Lost_Wanderer
Guest
At least be polite enough to concede that you were wrong and you need to look hard in the mirror.
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Fone_Bone_2001
Guest
I thought you were “done with this conversation” … no? Okay, then!
Right, just like you were “exiting this conversation” a few posts above?
No offense, but I think that whether you realize it or not, the source of your frustration is the fact that you cannot avoid seeing the holes in your arguments that have been pointed out.
Otherwise, why not just correct our bad logic or premises? We’re waiting.
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Havard
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This thread wasn’t even supposed to be about HP. The OP asked for suggestions for other books.
It’s really depressing that CAF posters still just can’t resist chiming in and ‘taking to task’ each person who disagrees with them, and the worst part is this breakdown in civility.
Would you talk to people this way if they were standing in front of you? I sure hope not.
It’s really depressing that CAF posters still just can’t resist chiming in and ‘taking to task’ each person who disagrees with them, and the worst part is this breakdown in civility.
Would you talk to people this way if they were standing in front of you? I sure hope not.
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Debora123
Guest
I tired out one of the spells in a Harry Potter book.
It worked.
Also, Harry Potter is actually a real Demon.
He showed up in my bedroom at 3am and just stared at me.
I prayed a Hail Mary and he disappeared.
It worked.
Also, Harry Potter is actually a real Demon.
He showed up in my bedroom at 3am and just stared at me.
I prayed a Hail Mary and he disappeared.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Yes, it is hard to resist. It is interesting that we bemoan the myriad threads on the same topics, but we never pass up the opportunity to chime in when they come around.
I don’t think the OP has responded since that first post. Hopefully she has been lurking and was able to walk away with at least a few concrete ideas that will be beneficial to her situation.
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promethius
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I’m done with discussing Harry Potter. The only thing I said about the series is that it has some secular humanist themes which are contrary to Catholic doctrine, and that these warrant discussion.I thought you were “done with this conversation” … no? Okay, then!
This is followed by 4 pages of HP apologists declaring that it’s a christian book series, there’s absolutely NOTHING objectionable in it, and then engaging in the silliest forms of argument available to man (aka, taking a Catholic definition which has clear meaning to anyone educated and twisting it around to something that was clearly not said).
It’s impossible to carry on a mature discussion in light of those sort of debate tactics, so I’m done with discussing Harry Potter and will gladly continue discussing OTHER books, as the OP asked.
Again, I have no idea where you got the idea that I was exiting the thread… I only stated I was done with the HARRY POTTER discussion.
I did, however, feel that it was germain to come back and offer an authoritative source to correct a poster whose tag says “Roman Catholic” who is mocking the church defined definition of “occult practices”.
One should always correct people mocking church teaching.
Since someone has already referenced Godwin’s law, I might as well point out that this violates Danth’s law (along with Lost Wanderer’s post as well!)
For the non-internet saavy, Danth’s law states: “If you have to insist that you’ve won an internet argument, you’ve probably lost badly"
Because it’s impossible to have a mature discussion with those who feign ignorance to mock arguments rather than discuss them.
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EasterJoy
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If she is not assigning Potter books as classroom reading, you really don’t have a problem. Talk to your child about what kinds of stories he likes, then take your child to the library and help him find books yourself. In the bigger libraries, there is often a children’s librarian who can help you find books you would have never found on your own.
Narnia and Tolkien, by the way, are full of magic. Like killing off the parents or separating the child from the parents’ care in other ways beyond the child’s control, magic is a plot device used in fiction from time immemorial to allow a character (especially a child) to be confronted with moral decision making on a scope that normally isn’t open to him or her. In the case of parents getting killed in children’s stories, a child can hardly learn the author’s reason for doing this too soon! Many find this piece of information a big relief!
If you can explain to your child that this is why writers use magic as a plot device, it can free you to talk about the plots of fairy tales and fantasy stories with more attention to the real moral problems that a story presents. If your child really wants to read stories about magic, at any rate, I think it a mistake to make magic into a forbidden fruit…kind of like when you had to explain why playing with matches was forbidden.
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promethius
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I would like to heartily second the recommendation for this series! I read it when I was a kid and it was great!
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mlz
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Yes, I agree, Michael o’brian is a very good source in the book you suggestedI think it’s probably too late for the OP to change the thread title.
You’re right, though, she’s really just asking for advice on books like Narnia and LotR (but not Harry Potter). There’s no reason to get into the Potter debate again.
My advice to the OP would be to pick up Michael O’Brien’s book “A Landscape With Dragons”. It’s a non-fiction book about children’s fiction. It has a very extensive reading list for various ages and genres. The book is over 10 years old now (so it won’t have anything from the past ten years), but I think you would find a lot of great suggestions for your son.
Plus, Michael O’Brien agrees with you about Harry Potter being “occultish”, so you have nothing to fear about his suggestions offending your sensibilities.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Actually I would because I can’t imagine any sane person spouting the anti-Fantasy schlick I often read in threads like this.
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Lost_Wanderer
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As much as I agree with you all the time Joe, I really can’t say it’s wise to suggest this person to go to the likes of O’Brien. I heard the man speak himself. He is not a credible authority on fantasy. :dts:I don’t think the OP has responded since that first post. Hopefully she has been lurking and was able to walk away with at least a few concrete ideas that will be beneficial to her situation.
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angierabbit2012
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:yup::clapping::dancing::extrahappy::tiphat:
**promethius ** is referring to THE BOXCAR CHILDREN:yup:
This series is extremely child friendly!
I have actually re-read them as an adult and I loved them just as much as when I was a child.
The mysteries are intriguing!
The books are ALL family oriented!
They are beautifully illustrated.
Also, the author was a school teacher so she REALLY understood how to relate to children.
You can purchase these books relatively low cost in paperback form.
Good luck.
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Havard
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If you’ve laid out your facts and rationale and they won’t accept it, what’s gained from calling them out as stubborn, unreasonable, or insane (the last of which really I don’t believe applies here btw)?
I gave up on proving HP’s merits on here. I’m not saying you should, though I would encourage you to take a step back and look at the efficacy of a lot of these debates.
Maybe it’d be better if we just wrote our own dissertations on HP and put links to them in our sigs. That way we could make all the points we wanted to, without it ever getting personal.
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Allegra
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Don’t write stuff like that! Michael O’Brian will use it to write another book and cite it as a case study.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Look, you just asked if whether or not I’d say the harsh things I’ve said here in real life and I said yes.
Heck I’d call them crazy first before making anything remotely sounding like an argument. Can you really imagine someone shouting out loud that waving wooden sticks and spouting dog Latin is devil worship and people passing by don’t think he’s/she’s cuckoo?
Jack Chick and the fundamentalist street preachers on YouTube have already covered that without us Catholics joining in on the spectacle.
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Debora123
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Don’t write stuff like that! Michael O’Brian will use it to write another book and cite it as a case study.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Hmm… are you sure it was Harry Potter? Y’see I had a boggart locked up in a magical jar inside my backpack but now he’s gone! D:
He’s a wicked one that boggart. Loves scaring religious people. Might explain why turned into a young Mr. Potter.
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Portrait
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Dear martininthefiel,
Cordial greetings and a very good day.
It is quite true that the Catholic faithful are at perfect liberty to entertain differing opinions as regards the Potter series of books, the Church having made no official pronouncement respecting them. However, notwithstanding the Church’s silence upon the issue thus far, Catholics are still expected to employ their prudential judgement, or good old fashioned sanctified common sense, when coming to a decision about these or any other books. We need to rigorously apply moral principles to specific cases, be it the Potter novels/films, rock music or our film and TV programmes. This is surely the Catholic way of ensuring that our consciences are properly guided, rather than desiring to be always spoon-fed by offical pronoucements from the Church.
Sadly, one looks in vain in the inferior Potter tales, which are deplorable even from a literary standpoint, for any reference to a core system of moral absolutes against which actions can be weighed - an indispensable requirement in any children’s novel whether it is overtly religious or not. Moreover, it is imperative in a relativistic age like ours, that we remember that moral absolutes are immutable and hence perpetually applicable and relevant.
The ethics and morality of the Potter books exalts moral relativism because they are devoid of any objective standard of right and wrong with which actions can be measured. Thus, for example, your so called ‘good’ characters habitually steal, lie, cheat, use unseemly language, break laws, deceive each other, behave hypocritically and have no ethical problem with pursuing revenge - all of which is done with an apparently clear conscience. Therefore it is hardly surprising that many Catholic commentators (including Michael O’ Brien and Patrick Madrid) and multitudes of Christian parents have expressed deep disquietude concerning the Potter series.
The Potter books have only enjoyed the world-wide popularity that they have because of the literary and moral bankruptcy of our decadent and godless age. Occasionally people have asked me whether it is really possible that so many could have been deceived, including many intelligent and Catholics and Protestants, as regards the Potter phenomenom. A resounding yes, for the voice of history attests that there is such a thing as mass public deception - ask the Germans, they know all about that. Interestingly, two years before being elected Pope, the Holy Father wrote a letter to a supporter, calling the the Potter story, “a subltle seduction, which has deeply unoticed and direct effects in udermining the soul of Christianity before it really grows properly” - an exellent summation of what is gravely amiss with these inferior Potter books.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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Debora123
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That’s right, it could very well have been a boggart taking the form of Harry Potter, knowing how terrified I am of the occult wizard with the wand.Hmm… are you sure it was Harry Potter? Y’see I had a boggart locked up in a magical jar inside my backpack but now he’s gone! D:
He’s a wicked one that boggart. Loves scaring religious people. Might explain why turned into a young Mr. Potter.
Of course, boggarts are pawns of the devil as well. But then again, every character in the Harry Potter book is a pawn of the devil. As is the author, JK Rowling.
I’m sure she is secretly a satanist who uses her children as sacrifices for the Evil One, making them do some terrible deeds.
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