Harry Potter: Evil Plot to Destroy Souls?

[dotcomrefugee]

I think that what people fail to realize in this thread is that these books are just that - books.

I personally like the series myself and I also think that the announcement that Dumbledore was gay was irrelevant, and that J.K. Rowling was whoring for media attention (if that’s inappropriate on these forums, kindly tell me) now that the book series has ended.

Seriously guys, just chill.

 

[surfinpure]

What do you all think of the Harry Potter series? I think it’s a fun, colorful, creative series that happens to teach some solid moral principles.
Do you hate it and think it should be banned by the Church like the Da Vinci Code? Certainly not.
Do you think that it leads kids to do evil? No, although if a child is attracted to the real occult, the potential is always there.
Do you think it has ties to the occult? **There is no actual “magic” anywhere in the book. No. **
Do you think that JK Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay proves this? Proves that he’s gay? Well, she’s the author, and she gets to decide such things.
Did you see Dumbledore acting or in any way showing that he was gay in any of the books? Not outwardly, no. He did have what came across as a brotherly love for Gellert Grindelwald, but it never resembled homosexuality to me.

OR

Do you find it to be a fun story for all ages?** Not all ages. I would not read the books to young children who are not ready for more mature themes.**
Do you find the story to be Christian? Allegorically, yes. Actually, no. There is not a drop of religion in the entire series. ANY religion.
Do you find it to be neither Christian nor evil?
Do you recommend it? Highly.
Do you find JKRowling saying Dumbledore can be ignored? You mean saying that he is gay? It can, but out of respect for the author, it shouldn’t necessarily. There is no reason to discuss that with children, however, and as far as I’m concerned, Dumbledore lived a model life as a chaste person who suffers from same-sex attraction.
Did you see Dumbledore acting or in any way showing that he was gay in any of the books? No, as stated above.

I personally really like the HP stories. I love Hermione and Dumbledore is just like Gandalf. I like all the stories and have read them multiple times (except for the 7th, which is my favourite). But I know many people who think they are evil. What I want to know is: Is there anyone who has read all 7 books and still thinks they are evil?

I doubt you’ll find many such people.

 

[surfinpure]

The real soul-destroying evil is the dumbing down of Western culture that has made it possible for drek like Harry Potter to get published in the first place and then made into mind-numbing films in the second place.

– Mark L. Chance.

Come, Mr. Chance, stop holding back. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[mlchance]

Come, Mr. Chance, stop holding back. Tell us how you really feel.

I prefer to work by hints so that people have the pleasure of teasing out the true meaning hidden within my cleverly constructed word castles.



– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Margarite]

I find this so interesting. The only people who dislike these books are the people who have not read them.

I totally agree that the books are not for younger children especially the later books with all the snogging (Yuck). I really disliked all the dating.

I found the magic to be just as you all said, just like the scenery in a play, just background, the story is more important than the magic.
The magic is just like the magic found in stories like Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc… The magic just sets up the story.

I agree that while HP is not religious, it does show many, very Christian virtues. Such as: giving your life for a friend, bravery in the face of evil, determination to do good, choosing good even when evil is easier or available, protecting the weak, it shows the value of life as well as the fact that risking your life for the sake of good is sometimes necessary and important.

I don’t like the movies nearly as well as the books, the fifth movie skipped all the light-hearted fun and important resistance of the students against the evil controlling their school. It didn’t show the evil of the evil people.

The fourth movie focused too much on the dating and fighting between Ron and Hermione and Mad-Eye flicking his tongue was gross.

The third movie made Serious too evil and bad looking. I mean he is a good guy who was sent to prison, so why did he have tattoo and such? He needed to look like a really nice rough guy, more like Strider from LOTR movies.

Anyways thanks for your responses.

 

[mlchance]

I find this so interesting. The only people who dislike these books are the people who have not read them.

So no one who read a Harry Potter book disliked that book? That’s amazing. In fact, it is truly unprecedented in the history of publishing.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I read them when my goddaughter started reading them so we could discuss them. I didn’t find them evil, but then I was reading them with a child who had positive influences, was capable of seeing where her faith and popular culture diverged and could easily discern fact from fiction. They certainly weren’t the best books I ever read, or the best ones she ever read-but they were fun.

I think with popular culture in general a great deal has to do with the environment and the capability for discernment.

 

[Margarite]

So no one who read a Harry Potter book disliked that book? That’s amazing. In fact, it is truly unprecedented in the history of publishing.

– Mark L. Chance.

**Please show me a single person who has posted on this thread who has read the books and disliked them.

These books are very engaging. I think my mom might be one of the only people who dislike the books, but she has only half listened to a chapter. She doesn’t like fairy tales or magic or LOTR or Star Wars. She only likes stuff that is absolute fact so history books are more her taste. But I do think that if she did give HP even half a chance, she would like them, or at least not dislike them.

Have a WONDER Full day!**

 

[Margarite]

I read them when my goddaughter started reading them so we could discuss them. I didn’t find them evil, but then I was reading them with a child who had positive influences, was capable of seeing where her faith and popular culture diverged and could easily discern fact from fiction. They certainly weren’t the best books I ever read, or the best ones she ever read-but they were fun.

I think with popular culture in general a great deal has to do with the environment and the capability for discernment.

**During the summer of 2005 my sister and I spent six weeks alone in Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Austria. The sixth book had just come out so we bought an English version at a book store and read it aloud to each other on the trains. On one train we were sitting near an older English woman and she asked us not to read it out loud because she had just started and she didn’t want us to ruin anything. She said that she loved the HP books and she read them so that she could discuss them with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I have always thought that was so neat and wonderful for her to do, and she said that she really enjoyed them. I have always thought that she must be a really great grandma to do that, and I am sure she is well loved.
So, really after the age of twelve, this is a book for all ages. **

 

[mlchance]

Please show me a single person who has posted on this thread who has read the books and disliked them.

Points to self

Read the first book. It was junk, and boring too, and I have a high threshold for boring. There was nothing in it that made me remotely desire to pick up any of the others, especially with shelves full of good books by good authors just waiting to be read.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[adstrinity]

I agree that while HP is not religious, it does show many, very Christian virtues. Such as: giving your life for a friend, bravery in the face of evil, determination to do good, choosing good even when evil is easier or available, protecting the weak, it shows the value of life as well as the fact that risking your life for the sake of good is sometimes necessary and important.

I don’t like the movies nearly as well as the books, the fifth movie skipped all the light-hearted fun and important resistance of the students against the evil controlling their school. It didn’t show the evil of the evil people.

The fourth movie focused too much on the dating and fighting between Ron and Hermione and Mad-Eye flicking his tongue was gross.

The third movie made Serious too evil and bad looking. I mean he is a good guy who was sent to prison, so why did he have tattoo and such? He needed to look like a really nice rough guy, more like Strider from LOTR movies.

1. Please see & obey my signature line.
2. The movies make the characters more human, I think. They are more 2D and black or white in the books. The movies show the subtle humanities of the characters. Where as in Book 5, Malfoy & Iquisitorial Squad are treating the scene with Umbridge pistolwhipping Harry with excitement, in the movie, they are looking around in stunned confusion, the way a 15 year old boy would really act when presented with such a situation.

Other things have to do with it’s hard to convey how the book conveyed something, so, things had to be changed for the movies to make the audience see what is happening.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, Margarite, I did read all the books, and while I found individual characters both well-written and good ‘examples’, if you will, and certain scenes well done, and while many posters have given explanations and interpretations of Ms. Rowling’s works which are very uplifting and spiritual (the explanations and interpretations actually in most cases far surpassing Ms. Rowling’s own words on the subject). . .

On the WHOLE. . .with, as I mentioned, several exceptions and some reservations. . .I did not really ‘like’ the books.

Now mind you. . .I don’t think they are evil at all. I think she did certain things very well.

I think (personal opinion) that most of her situations, and dialogue, is so ambiguous and vague that you certainly ‘could’ take what appears to be the ‘popular’ consensus that she was presenting good values and teachings. . .but you could also take away a very dissimilar view.

Many have spoken of Harry’s character in glowing ways using phrases from the book. I am not going to go into detail, but there are and were several aspects of ‘character’ regarding Harry that I, reading those same words and phrases, come across with very different interpretations.

Most have found Harry’s actions (with a few exceptions) to be almost universally neutral or benign. I have found several (his treatment throughout the book of Percy and of Draco) to be far less ‘benign.’

Most thought the scene in book 1 where Harry and Ron rescue Hermione from the troll to be a wonderful example of friendship.

I, OTOH, found this friendship problematic in that it was based on a lie. . .Hermione’s lie to Prof. McGonigill that she (Hermione) had gone after the troll and the boys had come to help her. . .

Now some will say it was a noble lie, done for the purpose of keeping the boys from being expelled. I say it was not a noble lie at all. We are talking of 11 year old children, one of whom (Harry) had known NOTHING of his heritage until a mere 3 months before this incident, another who was Muggle born and only just found out she was a witch. . .if they had told the truth they may have been punished but it is hardly likely that they would have been expelled. Further, the more one goes into the book, the more Hermione ‘gets away’ from doing the right thing and ‘follows her instincts’. There is a very definite (and very unChristian slant IMO) in these books that ‘authority’ is both dangerous and corrupt, and that one should ‘listen to ones’ heart’ and break those rules ‘when necessary’.

There was no need for this type of lie, and it is the foundation of the friendship that Hermione would totally reject ‘her’ foundation of character to ‘ally herself’ with the boys . . . and that they in turn would then befriend her because she had proven that they were more important to her than the truth was.

That’s a sample of a problem I saw. . .even in book 1. . .and I personally found it got worse and worse. Again, I do not think the BOOKS are evil. . .but I do think that despite well-written characters like Neville, and imaginative locations like Hogwarts, the overall themes are not as ‘good’ as they appear on the surface.

 

[Holly3278]

Speaking as a former Occultist, I must say that I absolutely hate the Harry Potter books. I feel that they glorify Occultism and that even though they may not be highly accurate in depicting the Occult, they still glorify it and can lead children to wanting to practice the Occult.

Pope Benedict opposes the novels and so do I!

 

[surfinpure]

Pope Benedict opposes the novels and so do I!

You’ll notice how dated the article is. There was a lot of discussion about this letter when it was first brought to public attention several years ago (before the series was even completed). Here is the salient portion of the article:

In the Zenit interview, Kuby quotes from the letter she received from Cardinal Ratzinger. In the letter, then-Cardinal Ratzinger specifically pointed to the fact that the danger in the Potter books is hidden was greatly concerning. “It is good that you shed light and inform us on the Harry Potter matter, for these are subtle seductions that are barely noticeable and precisely because of that deeply affect (children) and corrupt the Christian faith in souls even before it (the Faith) could properly grow,” said Cardinal Ratzinger.

We must note several things:

1. Pope Benedict did not write these words, Cardinal Ratzinger did before he was elected Pope. Therefore the statement that Pope Benedict opposes the novels is inaccurate.
2. This was not anything like the “official pronouncement” it was made out to be. There are precisely two lines contained in a piece of correspondence. That’s a far cry from an official position.
3. We have no indication that Cardinal Ratzinger had even read the Harry Potter novels. If you can get a hold of the full text of the letter, you will note that it becomes apparent he is responding to information given him by his correspondent, and making judgments based on a presumtion that what the original letter-writer told him is accurate. We already know that the person who wrote the letter was staunchly opposed to Harry Potter, and we may surmise her letter to him portrayed the books in precisely the way she viewed them. However, as far as I know, nobody has ever seen a copy of the letter that she wrote.

 

[Holly3278]

You’ll notice how dated the article is. There was a lot of discussion about this letter when it was first brought to public attention several years ago (before the series was even completed). Here is the salient portion of the article:

We must note several things:

1. Pope Benedict did not write these words, Cardinal Ratzinger did before he was elected Pope. Therefore the statement that Pope Benedict opposes the novels is inaccurate.
2. This was not anything like the “official pronouncement” it was made out to be. There are precisely two lines contained in a piece of correspondence. That’s a far cry from an official position.
3. We have no indication that Cardinal Ratzinger had even read the Harry Potter novels. If you can get a hold of the full text of the letter, you will note that it becomes apparent he is responding to information given him by his correspondent, and making judgments based on a presumtion that what the original letter-writer told him is accurate. We already know that the person who wrote the letter was staunchly opposed to Harry Potter, and we may surmise her letter to him portrayed the books in precisely the way she viewed them. However, as far as I know, nobody has ever seen a copy of the letter that she wrote.

Ok, I am sorry that I posted a statement that was inaccurate. That being that “Pope Benedict opposes the books.” to paraphrase what I said.

That said, I still think I’ll trust what Cardinal Ratzinger had to say about the books before I’ll trust what some random person on a forum has to say about them.

Also, the books glorify the Occult and therefore should be avoided. Personally, my (future) children will never read Harry Potter as long as they are living under my roof.

 

[surfinpure]

Ok, I am sorry that I posted a statement that was inaccurate. That being that “Pope Benedict opposes the books.” to paraphrase what I said.

That said, I still think I’ll trust what Cardinal Ratzinger had to say about the books before I’ll trust what some random person on a forum has to say about them.

Also, the books glorify the Occult and therefore should be avoided. Personally, my (future) children will never read Harry Potter as long as they are living under my roof.

I just think it is a mistake to assume that Cardinal Ratzinger had even read the books before making the comment. We don’t know exactly to what “subtle deceptions” he was even referring, and he only wrote two lines on the subject.

BUT … I think it is perfectly fine for you to object to Harry Potter on your own grounds. I don’t doubt that the ideas of practical magic introduced in Harry Potter could be tempting to a certain type of child who wishes to gain more control over his environment. Frank Peretti addressed this quite well in his short book (and audiotape) The Wounded Spirit.

I absolutely support your decision not to permit your children to read Harry Potter, if that is what you believe is best for them. Every parent ought to take a look at the books before deciding whether or not to allow their children to read them. I don’t have a problem with them personally, because I plan to read along with my children and discuss the negative and positive aspects. There is great self-sacrifice and redemption at the end, and it sends a powerful message. But again, this is for everyone to decide individually after having read the material.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I LOVE Harry Potter. I think it has very good Christian messages and as for the magic in the book, it seems to be more of an inborn talent than of occult knowledge, like these kids just have a natural gift. As for the Christianity, there is very little mention to any sexual activity (apart from kissing or “teens hiding in the bushes”), a lot about self sacrifice (for love of someone), and a lot about friendship and integrity.

JK Rowling can say anything she wants about Dumbledore. I don’t think it matters. There is nothing to suggest that he was gay or that he presently acted on homosexual tendencies during Harry’s time at Hogwarts. If anything, you could say that even good people have sinful tendencies, as we all do and that we need to overcome them.

I would let future kids read Harry Potter. Then again, I grew up in a household where banning of books is considered wrong. Instead, it was used as a teaching moment. I intend to do the same for my kids (barring pornography or anything that REALLY goes over their heads).

 

[cheeto1]

OMG… not this AGAIN!!

People who think Harry Potter is evil because it has magic in it… do you feel the same about the Narnia books? The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series? Roald Dahl books? How about Star Wars, because a lot of what they do by harnessing and controlling “the Force” looks like magic to me… Greek and Roman mythology, much of which is included in Catholic home school curricula as part of Western Civ studies… how far do you go with this?

Are you going to forbid your children reading the story of Saul, the Isrealite king who consulted the witch?

My children have not read Narnia, Hobbit, or Lord of the Rings.
They have seen Star Wars only when older and with plenty
of parental guidance. I totally disagree with teaching mythology
until a solid faith in Jesus is formed. Why would I want to
encourage an interest in worshipping other gods? How far do
I go with this? – All the way. I havent shown cinderella
or snow white, etc…

Remember the story in the new testament about a young
slave girl who had the “natural” ability to predict the future?
She was following St. Paul around saying loudly “Listen to
him! He will show you salvation in Jesus Christ!” and other
such things until finally the followers said to saint Paul,
“Can’t you make her stop”? He turned to her and said,
“Come out of her!”. Immediately the spirit left and for some
reason she no longer had this “inborn” ability to predict the
future.

Doesn’t anyone find it interesting that the poster who was
actually involved in the occult says they hate Harry Potter
and would not allow it in their home?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Doesn’t anyone find it interesting that the poster who was
actually involved in the occult says they hate Harry Potter
and would not allow it in their home?

As a matter of fact, I do.

Unlike others, above, whose experience of Harry Potter resistance is reported to be with those who have not read the books, in my experience, those who warn against Harry Potter are those who have previous experience in the occult (whether they have read the books or not I could not say). And I would never insist that they should read them. They have a *proven susceptibility *to the occult.

In the same way, I would never encourage a recovering alcoholic to take a drink. They have a *proven susceptibility *to alcohol.

But: Just as I would disagree with anyone who says Alcohol is dangerous for everyone, and no one should imbibe, so I disagree with those who say Harry Potter is dangerous for everyone, and no one should read it.

:twocents:
tee

 

[adstrinity]

Doesn’t anyone find it interesting that the poster who was actually involved in the occult says they hate Harry Potter and would not allow it in their home?

You mean the poster who claims he/she was actually involved in the occult? But, like the person who posted above me with the alcoholics example, I guess I can understand.

How do the books glorify the occult is what I want to know.