Harry Potter: Evil Plot to Destroy Souls?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Margarite
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Bob, you are funny.-I don’t expect everybody to agree with all I say, or even most of it. It’s my opinion. I’m allowed to have one–even if it is wrong in your eyes. It would be nice, and far more in keeping with the gentlemanly behavior I have seen in your posts lo these many years for you to be a little less mocking of the person with whom you disagree on what is, surely, a very minor matter of literary criticism. I’ve known you to be far more ‘tolerant’ of people who have disparged Catholicism than you have been of criticisms of Harry Potter. . .a literary work of fiction with which people can have quite legitimate differences of opinion without being treated as though what they thought was not just a ‘different opinion’ but a stupid one. If I have ever, ever said that anybody who had a different ‘take’ on Harry Potter was stupid, wrong, evil, etc. I would understand why you might be sniping and carping at me–as a RETURN–but I have never done so. And frankly, the OP actually welcomed the idea of having a discussion between those who did not ‘love’ the books as a free exchange of ideas, and was looking forward to having a chance to see why people might HAVE these different ideas.

Well, I am probably too thin-skinned (which is my problem, not yours I hasten to add) but while I don’t mind being told that people disagree with me (respectfully) and WHY, I do mind being given another dose (yes, I DO remember these same posts or reasonable facsimiles thereof being employed by you on other threads, thank you very much) of sarcasm, accusations of ‘overanalysis’ followed by satiric screeds meant to show how STUPID my posts were to any person of sense.

Thanks but no thanks. I’ll be glad to PM the OP any time to discuss if she would like, but I’m not going to have this thread degenerate into another "bash the wicked potterbashing bigot’ thread.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Bob, you are funny.-I don’t expect everybody to agree with all I say, or even most of it. It’s my opinion. I’m allowed to have one–even if it is wrong in your eyes. It would be nice, and far more in keeping with the gentlemanly behavior I have seen in your posts lo these many years for you to be a little less mocking of the person with whom you disagree on what is, surely, a very minor matter of literary criticism. I’ve known you to be far more ‘tolerant’ of people who have disparged Catholicism than you have been of criticisms of Harry Potter. . .a literary work of fiction with which people can have quite legitimate differences of opinion without being treated as though what they thought was not just a ‘different opinion’ but a stupid one. If I have ever, ever said that anybody who had a different ‘take’ on Harry Potter was stupid, wrong, evil, etc. I would understand why you might be sniping and carping at me–as a RETURN–but I have never done so. And frankly, the OP actually welcomed the idea of having a discussion between those who did not ‘love’ the books as a free exchange of ideas, and was looking forward to having a chance to see why people might HAVE these different ideas.

Well, I am probably too thin-skinned (which is my problem, not yours I hasten to add) but while I don’t mind being told that people disagree with me (respectfully) and WHY, I do mind being given another dose (yes, I DO remember these same posts or reasonable facsimiles thereof being employed by you on other threads, thank you very much) of sarcasm, accusations of ‘overanalysis’ followed by satiric screeds meant to show how STUPID my posts were to any person of sense.

Thanks but no thanks. I’ll be glad to PM the OP any time to discuss if she would like, but I’m not going to have this thread degenerate into another "bash the wicked potterbashing bigot’ thread.
Click to expand...
Those posts were not directed at you in the first place nor are they now. They were , IIRC, originally directed at a poster who said Harry potter books and movies were deliberatley recruiting children for satanism. He used analysis of the movies far more overblown than my satires.

I liked em when i worte em and i am glad to have an opportunity to post them again-i think they are dead on to a lot of the overblown nonsense(again not refering to you) we see posted in these Harry potter threads.
 
I used to love the Harry Potter novels; while I consider myself more of a Tolkien fan right now, I still hold a torch for the novels, especially the first two books, which IMHO were the best of the whole series.

The novels themselves, while having this chance that it can entice a kid to things occult are not in themselves inherently evil. It’s not like JK Rowling wrote the novels due to an infernal plan in order to turn kids worldwide into occultists. :rolleyes:

The problem I have with the books has more to do with the writing style; while Rowling writes in easy-to-understand English (compared to the archaic, exalted English of parts of Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings), her writing style is a bit too informally written, in my opinion.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
And the books are not evil.

I personally find problematic issues in them because of the ambiguity of much of the writing (as is demonstrated in how many people can take a passage and find Christian themes of self-sacrifice, love, daring to do the right thing etc. while as many others can look at the same passages and find hubris, love --acceptable if it’s the right character, i…e. Harry or people who accept Harry; not noted or accepted if the character is perceived as 'against Harry-- and disobedience to authority presented as ‘all right if the situation worked out well’, even if the disobedience was not required (or only required in the mind of some of the characters), etc.

JK admitted herself on her website that she personally disliked certain characters, specifically Severus Snape, and expressed astonishment that he had garned the kind of admiration that he did. IOW, she was astonished that a character whom SHE disliked could be ‘liked’ by others. In her books, characters she likes will have any bad or problematic behavior ‘excused’ because she DOES like them. Arthur, for example, physically assaults Lucius Malfoy in book 2. No matter how much Lucius ‘asked for it’ (and he was very insulting), a physical altercation is no way to solve things, and if Arthur had pulled this in a Muggle world he could have been jailed. Furthermore, Lucius goes on to put Riddle’s book in with Ginny’s things as a direct result of this assault. . .so Arthur’s actions were certainly a major factor in his daughter getting exposed to the book in the first place. Certainly Lucius was the main instigator. . .but Arthur is by no means blameless though JK puts no blame on him at all. Even in book 7, after Draco and his mother had both acted to save Harry on separate occasions, Harry barely nods to Draco when sending the offspring off to Hogwarts. . .Gryfindor still HATES anybody ‘Slytherin’, all the old prejudices are still there as if there had never been a battle against Voldemort where all fought against him–yes, even Slytherin despite a snit fit by Prof. McGonigal which severely dampened my previous admiration of her as a character.

It could have been 17 years ago. . .There is still one BAD house, Ron still ‘gets by’ on magic and being “Harry’s friend”, Arthur still has a prejudice FOR Muggles, apparently the children don’t even know WHY people are looking at Harry, etc.
Click to expand...
Learning to fight can be important. It teaches men to be manly. It has been the way that men have settled things and made friends from the very beginning. IT is a FIST FIGHT! It wasn’t like they were cursing each other with their wands or something. I think it was important for the Weaselys to see that their dad wasn’t ashamed of the way they lived, and was proud enough to stand up for himself. It was an important lesson for his sons to learn that they didn’t have to be a door mat just because they were poor. He also showed them that they didn’t need to curse put a hex on someone to get their point across. Good muggle punch in the nose is sufficient.

I’m sorry, but the political incorrectness of fighting just makes me like it all the more. Political correctness has only hurt the world, by making people too cautious to say anything strongly or too wimpy to stand up and fight for what they believe.
 
patrick457 said:
I used to love the Harry Potter novels; while I consider myself more of a Tolkien fan right now, I still hold a torch for the novels, especially the first two books, which IMHO were the best of the whole series.

The novels themselves, while having this chance that it can entice a kid to things occult are not in themselves inherently evil. It’s not like JK Rowling wrote the novels due to an infernal plan in order to turn kids worldwide into occultists. :rolleyes:

The problem I have with the books has more to do with the writing style; while Rowling writes in easy-to-understand English (compared to the archaic, exalted English of parts of Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings), her writing style is a bit too informally written, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I agree except I think the last book is by far the best!👍 PS: I am more of a LOTR fan than HP fan too, but I can’t understand the intense dislike and sometimes hatred for these books which aren’t evil in any way. It is like disliking LOTR because Gandalf is a wizard, or disliking Sleeping Beauty because there are good fairies and a evil witch. It is silly and ridiculous.
 
Margarite said:
What do you all think of the Harry Potter series?
Do you hate it and think it should be banned by the Church like the Da Vinci Code?
Do you think that it leads kids to do evil?
Do you think it has ties to the occult?
Do you think that JK Rowling saying Dumbledore is gay proves this?
Did you see Dumbledore acting or in any way showing that he was gay in any of the books?

OR

Do you find it to be a fun story for all ages?
Do you find the story to be Christian?
Do you find it to be neither Christian nor evil?
Do you recommend it?
Do you find JKRowling saying Dumbledore can be ignored?
Did you see Dumbledore acting or in any way showing that he was gay in any of the books?

I personally really like the HP stories. I love Hermione and Dumbledore is just like Gandalf. I like all the stories and have read them multiple times (except for the 7th, which is my favourite). But I know many people who think they are evil. What I want to know is: Is there anyone who has read all 7 books and still thinks they are evil?
Click to expand...
I don’t think they are evil. I think they are good young adult fantasy written from a liberal and not entirely orthodox but definitely Christian perspective. I would be cautious about introducing them to young children, but I enjoy them myself and look forward to sharing that enjoyment with my daughter when she’s old enough.

Edwin
 
Gertabelle said:
:rotfl: :rotfl:

Are you kidding?!

If Harry Potter teaches people to believe in witches and wizards, then so does Snow White and Seven Dwarfs, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Aladdin, A Midsummer Night’s Dream,
Click to expand...
o.k. so now you get it… even if you disagree… harry potter isn’t the only thing evil in the world. You can’t go by G ratings or Disney or accepted childhood tales, you always have to use your faith to judge. you only get one chance to be a parent, and teach what
you decide. One thing I choose to teach: steer clear of anything to do with the occult world, and I act accordingly, regardless of ridicule from others “more enlightened”.:idea:
 
cheeto1 said:
o.k. so now you get it… even if you disagree… harry potter isn’t the only thing evil in the world. You can’t go by G ratings or Disney or accepted childhood tales, you always have to use your faith to judge. you only get one chance to be a parent, and teach what
you decide. One thing I choose to teach: steer clear of anything to do with the occult world, and I act accordingly, regardless of ridicule from others “more enlightened”.:idea:
Click to expand...
I would respond but i have to get ready for my coven meeting…
 
I’d keep my kids away from Harry Potter just on the basis that Rowling is a lousy writer and her writing in the later books reflected her having secured lucrative movie rights.
Click to expand...
I have no idea where you got this impression. To begin with, Rowling has established that she had an incredibly through outline of the entire story before she even began serious work on Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, so nothing fundamental to the books’ plot can possibly come from a desire to write books that make good movies. Secondly, the sixth book in particular does not look like it will translate to the screen well at all. So much of it consists of Harry sitting in Dumbledore’s office learning about stuff that will matter more in the next book; it doesn’t have a whole lot of physical action. Thirdly, Rowling has demonstrated that she has an immense amount of integrity as a writer; even as a single mother, she was dedicated to writing the book she really wanted to write. She always wrote at the pace she wanted to write. I cannot imagine her weakening here vision simply to make a better movie, when none of the movies have been terribly good anyway.

I feel the need to defend Harry Potter as literature. Admittedly, the first book is not all that great. Its writing is not nearly as engaging, it’s plot is not as focused, and its characters are not as interesting and dynamic as in the later books. By itself, it’s just a good children’s book and not much else. Most of its merit comes from the incredible unity of the story as a whole: how well important themes and plot points from the later books are worked into and foreshadowed in the first one.

The second book’s writing style and characters aren’t too much better. What is amazing in the second book is its plot. The plot if extremely tight and focused; everything builds to and foreshadows the climax. Chamber of Secrets also ramps up the extremely rich symbolism that pervades the entire series.

By the fourth book, Rowling’s character have become extremely rich and dynamic. They develop over time, have realistic emotional reactions, and yet still retain a kind of fantasy charm. By the fifth book, the symbolism and themes of the series reach their full strength; absolutely everything in the fifth book drives home the motif of Harry’s being broken down spiritually, and the way all of it comes to a head in Sirius’ death is perfect.

I cannot stress enough how impressive the symbolism in Harry Potter is; it honestly reminds me of Moby ****. The sheer number of symbols for Christ and alchemical symbols is staggering. My favorite author on interpretation of Harry Potter is John Granger, a conservative Christian. He wrote Looking for God in Harry Potter and Unlocking Harry Potter: Five Keys for the Serious Reader

I do not understand the perspective of those who think Harry Potter is terrible literature any more than I understand the perspective of those who think it has anything to do with the occult. The evidence to the contrary is just staggering.
 
goodness and love trump evil.
bad?
I think not.
Wicked a good book. lots of bad language. evil? no.

my :twocents:
 
I agree with Transformer. I recall reading that Rowling planned for all 7 novels at the outset. The books are so enormous (upwards of 750 pages, some of them) and involved that they make for disjointed movies, and movie rights could not possibly be what prompted the rest of the series. The symbolism is rich, as is the influence of the books. One can easily find references to Lewis, Tolkien, and the Bible. The work must be taken as a whole, not judged on the basis of a single book, and certainly not on that of the first book.
 
I loved the HP series, as did my kids. We read all 7 books together and have seen all the movies. The books are far better.

The series sure has turned kids on to reading, which is a good thing.👍

I agree with the others who have said those who don’t like the series have not read it.

No different than Chronicals of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, and Fairy Tales. Anyone who thinks reading these books ACTUALLY learn witchcraft from them is …well, I’d rather not say…or I’ll get a warning from a moderator!:eek:
 
Heh, isn’t it interesting slowly finding out the quirky things about
people here? Yes you are quite right on all counts, but not
everyone reasons alike.😉
 
Susceptibility is exactly the issue.
I knew a woman who raised her daughter insulated from fairy tales and TV. They spent nearly all their time together. At 15, the girl still had to clear anything she read, ate or did AFAIK. The purpose of that childrearing method was to protect her from being led astray.
I grew up in utter chaos more often than not, and we were atheists but there was a book on Zen around sometimes, an I Ching and some Tarot cards, I have no idea what for. I got hold of thousands of books and other materials on many topics.
I searched books of any kind for information about the supernatural because 1. I have the sight, I don’t know why, and no one would tell me anything about it but got mad at me for trying to explain instead. 2. I have a soul and I needed to know what that means and what my soul needs. 3. I had no power in an unpredictable life and I needed to find power, knowledge and some way to make sense of things.
I found small hints in several popular books, and put spells together out of them. I would have tunneled through the city to the library to get books about magic if I had to. I thought it was something I desperately needed to know about.
I grew up and got deeply into the occult.
If other kids could read all that stuff about witches and hardly think about it, I guess I believe them. But I responded differently.
The girl who didn’t hear fairy tales is an adult now with the usual young adult problems. Her mother, last I heard, was weeping and trying to figure out what she did wrong when she tried so hard.
If there’s a moral, it’s that you can’t keep kids in a little world without danger or pain, it doesn’t work no matter how you might try. But then at least giving them some stability and religious guidance is a good idea. And then if they read about magic it won’t look like their only hope.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top