Harry Potter?

[catholicmamajoy]

Our Sunday Visitor (OSV) publishes a terrific book about Harry Potter that’s specifically for Catholic parents and includes an interview with Catholic novelist and homeschooling mom Regina Doman in the last section of the book. It also covers the concern over then Cardinal Ratzinger’s reply to a women who wrote him about the book (that note has been discussed ad nauseum here on many closed threads) and Michael O’Brien’s take on HP is included, too.

It’s called "The Mystery of Harry Potter: A Catholic Family Guide " and is authored by Nancy Carpentier Brown, a Catholic homeschooling mom who also wrote the Father Brown Readers from Catholic Heritage Curricula (homeschool curriculum provider).

For any Catholic that has concerns about HP, the book gives a balanced and hysteria-free look at HP and how to discern if it’s a good choice for your family and your children. I’m sure there are people out there who have read it and still think HP’s not a good choice for their family, but it gives a Catholic view of the series ( and the movies that were out when it was published) so that parents can make an educated choice for their own families, instead of getting caught up in the anti-Harry frenzy that seems to dominate the fundamentalist mindset.

amazon.com/The-Mystery-Harry-Potter-Catholic/dp/1592763987

 

[Cloisters]

The Vatican exorcist said that the HP books could lead children to witchcraft, and many children were joining Satanist groups. Their being virgins was ‘gravy’ as one wizard put it. One article I saw showed children in costumes and sitting around a circle, calling Jesus a wimp for being crucified. JK Rowling supposedly mentioned the Dark Lord in the article.

As a writer, I thoroughly enjoyed the HP and Unfortunate Events books along with my kids. I made sure they understood that HP ‘magick’ was pure fantasy, and even some pagans were dismayed with the books. If I had the time, I would finish the series, and thoroughly enjoyed the movies.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[pensmama87]

I read quite a bit of Harry Potter when I was quasi-involved with occultic perspectives and religions. As such, I can’t for the life of me understand why individuals deny that Harry Potter can stimulate an interest in occultic practices, since I experienced this first-hand. As a matter of fact, I think the books are incredibly friendly ground for those who already enjoy or who are curious about neo-paganism or the occult. I can certainly see them being a sort of catalyst for interest in such things. I don’t know why people deny that being extremely emotionally biased towards something, and consistently consuming it and permeating your thoughts with it, simply won’t make you more likely to embrace that something as an influence in your decisions.

I’ve seen the argument that these books are fiction, and therefore they’re apparently harmless. I also don’t understand that perspective in the slightest. The Marquis de Sade wrote fiction. His works are still garbage. You can’t dress garbage up by simply referring to it as fiction, and thus gutting it of any sort of unconscious influence that it could have otherwise had.

I also see the argument that children enjoy the books, or that now-adults confirm they enjoyed them when they were young, and this enjoyment is a wonderful thing, since it leads to a good end. OK. Well, whether or not something satisfies our appetites is not the manner by which we judge its merit. In fact, you see this again and again with how people analyze artistic products: I like it, therefore it must be good. Sorry, but that’s wrong.

At the same time, you (if I’m interpreting correctly) were already interested in the occult, so these books may have posed a danger to you they don’t pose to others. That doesn’t make them bad, but of course prudence needs to be exercised.

A few years ago I read a totally innocent, very Catholic novel a lot of my friends had enjoyed. For various reasons I had to stop because I realized it was an occasion of sin for me. But that had to do with MY weakness, not an intrinsic problem with the story. In fact, for other people, it was probably of great spiritual benefit.

Alcoholics shouldn’t drink, but the fact that there are alcoholics doesn’t mean we bring back Prohibition.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes. But there is also something else. Those of us who know a lot about it can find loads to criticize too. For instance the poor poor writing style of JK. The inconsistencies in the story and the blatant pandering… The eventual "selling out"The dripping of condescension in her writing and interviews. Etc.

And without the context of proper religious instruction they can be spiritually dangerous as well. As could any book without proper religious instruction. From the Bible to Shakespeare, And though JK probably thinks she belongs in the same post that mentions the Bible and the Bard… She most certainly does not.

I’m not talking about the author.
Who cares what she thinks?

 

[Xantippe]

At the same time, you (if I’m interpreting correctly) were already interested in the occult, so these books may have posed a danger to you they don’t pose to others. That doesn’t make them bad, but of course prudence needs to be exercised.

A few years ago I read a totally innocent, very Catholic novel a lot of my friends had enjoyed. For various reasons I had to stop because I realized it was an occasion of sin for me. But that had to do with MY weakness, not an intrinsic problem with the story. In fact, for other people, it was probably of great spiritual benefit.

Alcoholics shouldn’t drink, but the fact that there are alcoholics doesn’t mean we bring back Prohibition.

My grandma once bought me a Christian romance book from our local Christian bookstore.

It had, I regret to say, a very unedifying scene with Our Pure Heroine being chased around a barn by rape-y/seductive Baron Hotpants. It was totally a bodice ripper scene, although evil Baron Hotpants didn’t get very far with Our Pure Heroine.

That particular book was way worse for girls than the entire Harry Potter series, which my dear grandma was in later years very dubious about.

 

[on_the_hill]

Is it your contention that priests who are exorcists and who study the occult more than you and I, think that harry potter is a real boy?

What about Pinocchio–he was a real boy, wasn’t he?

My mother-in-law is suspicious about the Harry Potter series, despite that our family loves the books and the movies. I think it makes her uncomfortable, because once upon a time she heard someone say that a priest had something bad to say about it. I didn’t realize there are still people who are worried about it.

Regardless, if you want to watch or read, then you should make up your own mind.

As for the Twilight series–blech! And the movies? Double blech!! My wife and I saw the first and then let ourselves get suckered into the second. It was the only time I ever left a movie and really felt like I’d wasted every moment that I was there.

 

[Xantippe]

What about Pinocchio–he was a real boy, wasn’t he?

My mother-in-law is suspicious about the Harry Potter series, despite that our family loves the books and the movies. I think it makes her uncomfortable, because once upon a time she heard someone say that a priest had something bad to say about it. I didn’t realize there are still people who are worried about it.

Regardless, if you want to watch or read, then you should make up your own mind.

As for the Twilight series–blech! And the movies? Double blech!! My wife and I saw the first and then let ourselves get suckered into the second. It was the only time I ever left a movie and really felt like I’d wasted every moment that I was there.

Have you seen the Honest Trailers version of Twilight?

I forget if there’s bad language in it (there probably is), but I think you’ll enjoy it! It’s very fast, too! Much faster than the movie!

Somewhat related point–the book series that all the grandmas tend to get worried about are never the worst thing the kids are currently reading or watching.

 

[on_the_hill]

Have you seen the Honest Trailers version of Twilight?

I forget if there’s bad language in it (there probably is), but I think you’ll enjoy it! It’s very fast, too! Much faster than the movie!

Somewhat related point–the book series that all the grandmas tend to get worried about are never the worst thing the kids are currently reading or watching.

There were parts I liked about Twilight, like when the vampires were battling the werewolves. The rest of it–romance, love, kissing, whatever, I coulda done without, thank you very much.

And it drove me crazy that the girl–Bella?–stuck with the vampire. Ed? Her unceasingly stupid decisions were a never ending frustration. My wife says that’s because I’m reading it as a dad.

 

[Bonnie]

The Vatican exorcist said that the HP books could lead children to witchcraft, and many children were joining Satanist groups. Their being virgins was ‘gravy’ as one wizard put it. One article I saw showed children in costumes and sitting around a circle, calling Jesus a wimp for being crucified. JK Rowling supposedly mentioned the Dark Lord in the article.

I can’t be absolutely certain, but that sounds like an Onion satire piece that was going the rounds about 10 or so years ago.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I can’t be absolutely certain, but that sounds like an Onion satire piece that was going the rounds about 10 or so years ago.

Not the onion. There were several news outlets that picked this up.
FYI the Catholics have thier own version of the onion called eyeofthetiber. You should check it out! Funny stuff.

But here is a link to the story that is legit…
telegraph.co.uk/culture/harry-potter/8915691/Harry-Potter-and-yoga-are-evil-says-Catholic-Church-exorcist.html

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Have you seen the Honest Trailers version of Twilight?

I forget if there’s bad language in it (there probably is), but I think you’ll enjoy it! It’s very fast, too! Much faster than the movie!

Somewhat related point–the book series that all the grandmas tend to get worried about are never the worst thing the kids are currently reading or watching.

Bad lip reading Twilight is hilarious. Actually all BLR videos are worth binge watching.

 

[Exiled_Child]

Out of curiosity I read the first book recently, and J.K. Rowling is actually a very gifted writer. There’s a reason she’s so wealthy and successful, and it isn’t because she’s a bad writer! Her style is quite charming, and her characters are thoroughly lovable. People think of her characters as actual real life friends, which is most definitely not easy for an author to accomplish. Plus, people sometimes overlook the importance of story itself - and who is her equal on that front? Recall too that it’s a book series aimed at young people, and she never intended to write Macbeth.

Also, the alleged “occultism” in it is actually one of it’s strong points. It makes the story extremely amusing. It’s not as though there’s any actual Satanism or evil-hearted stuff - quite the opposite. It’s magical elements are more fairytale-esque, than anything.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I have never worried too much either way. I respect Fr. Euteneuer immensely and have heard him speak at Mens’ conferences before. I do not think most of these men speak from ignorance of what they may have seen the books do. They don’t raise alarms for the sake of it, generally.

I always asked myself - is it more likely that the opponents within the Church are more ignorant of the acutal content of the books, or that the proponents of the books are more ignorant of real-life demonic possesion and what exorcists see?

Either way, with so many other choices that are in no way even remotely controversial, I don’t worry about it. Kids will survive without HP. If you have concerns, why not just choose one of the other million series that don’t raise controversy?

And if you are convinced of its benigninity, by all means. I don’t feel strongly one way or another per se, but have enough other good books for my children to read (all of them are under five at this point so it is a moot point for now) that I can avoid HP if I want and not miss anything.

 

[silver_moon]

There were parts I liked about Twilight, like when the vampires were battling the werewolves. The rest of it–romance, love, kissing, whatever, I coulda done without, thank you very much.

And it drove me crazy that the girl–Bella?–stuck with the vampire. Ed? Her unceasingly stupid decisions were a never ending frustration. My wife says that’s because I’m reading it as a dad.

Here is a parody review of New Moon:

popsuede.blogspot.com/2009/12/twilight-saga-new-moon-review.html

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I also “grew up” with Harry Potter. Actually I was technically “too old” for them when they first came out, but my younger sister wasn’t, so I wound up “borrowing” her books and really liking them. So our parents obviously had no problem with them. My friends read them too and no one was running around trying to cast spells, raise the dead, etc. Though we were “too old” do that kind of stuff, anyway.

I think the whole “gateway to the occult” issue is one that really is one of those “stumbling block” ideas where yes, they MIGHT be a problem to some people, but I don’t think reading the books themselves is the same kind of thing as purposefully engaging in occult activities such as using an Ouija board. Indeed, since the books aren’t as popular as they were during the height of the Potter craze, the risk of readers taking them too seriously actually might be less than it was.

As for Twilight, I think that series encourages all sorts of unhealthy beliefs that have nothing to do with the occult. Edward is obviously the dominant one in the relationship, Bella gives up essentially everything to be with him, or at least, is willing to, though the author gives her a happy ending at the end, or an almost-happy one, as her enemies are not actually defeated at the end of the book.

Note that although the series is technically “clean” when it comes to sex, 50 Shades of Grey, which certainly is not, started off as a Twilight fanfiction story! And yet this is not as shocking as it seems at first. The sex was not in the original story, but the emotional and psychological domination of the heroine by the hero, I think can certainly be argued WAS.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Note that although the series is technically “clean” when it comes to sex, 50 Shades of Grey, which certainly is not, started off as a Twilight fanfiction story! And yet this is not as shocking as it seems at first. The sex was not in the original story, but the emotional and psychological domination of the heroine by the hero, I think can certainly be argued WAS.

I remember when the Fifty Shades of Garbage movie was coming out last year seeing topics on it, and was amazed at the number of people defending it as mindless fun (a minority mind you, but still enough to surprise me). There was actually one poster upset that it inaccurately and unfairly portrayed the BDSM sub-culture… Seriously.

If you are taking the time to vent and complain that a (not) popular movie is making your BDSM fetish look bad, you need to get a grip, rearrange your priorities, step away from the whip and ball-gag, and go kneel down in front of the Blessed Sacrament for a few years.

 

[Bonnie]

And it drove me crazy that the girl–Bella?–stuck with the vampire. Ed? Her unceasingly stupid decisions were a never ending frustration. My wife says that’s because I’m reading it as a dad.

When we watch videos we often find ourselves yelling at characters that they’re being stupid. In one British detective series we watched, the young private detective kept making the dumbest decisions - & kept getting hurt or put in dangerous situations. Her secretary/assistant did a good job of saving her employer from time to time.

 

[Xantippe]

I remember when the Fifty Shades of Garbage movie was coming out last year seeing topics on it, and was amazed at the number of people defending it as mindless fun (a minority mind you, but still enough to surprise me). There was actually one poster upset that it inaccurately and unfairly portrayed the BDSM sub-culture… Seriously.

If you are taking the time to vent and complain that a (not) popular movie is making your BDSM fetish look bad, you need to get a grip, rearrange your priorities, step away from the whip and ball-gag, and go kneel down in front of the Blessed Sacrament for a few years.

I think you might have been talking about me. Not a BDSM fan myself, just for the record!

If that’s the thread I was thinking about, I had come across a long series of chapter-by-chapter posts by an actual BDSM person on the subject of 50 Shades of Grey and shared it, because it was an interesting from-the-horse’s-mouth critique. The blogger argued (with literally dozens of quotes to back this up) that 1) E. L. James doesn’t know a lot about BDSM and 2) E.L. James does seem to know WAY more about the how-tos of abuse.

 

[Xantippe]

When we watch videos we often find ourselves yelling at characters that they’re being stupid. In one British detective series we watched, the young private detective kept making the dumbest decisions - & kept getting hurt or put in dangerous situations. Her secretary/assistant did a good job of saving her employer from time to time.

Yep.

TV and movies would be totally different if whenever somebody got a blackmailing note, a sinister phone call inviting them to a deserted warehouse, or heard a scary noise outside, they locked the door and called the police.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I think you might have been talking about me. Not a BDSM fan myself, just for the record!

If that’s the thread I was thinking about, I had come across a long series of chapter-by-chapter posts by an actual BDSM person on the subject of 50 Shades of Grey and shared it, because it was an interesting from-the-horse’s-mouth critique. The blogger argued (with literally dozens of quotes to back this up) that 1) E. L. James doesn’t know a lot about BDSM and 2) E.L. James does seem to know WAY more about the how-tos of abuse.

I don’t know ANY “actual BDSM people” but again, E.L. James is NOT a quality author who made the effort to research actual BDSM practices, but essentially a fan-fiction writer who got really lucky. Both that she actually is making money from her “work”, and also that she wasn’t sued and hit with a C+D order from Stephenie Meyer. I guess SM thought it best for her “brand” to NOT make a fuss that would make the link between her work and ELJ’s work to be even more obvious to everyone. Now, TBH I have not read even a page of 50 Shades and don’t plan to, but I get the feeling even SM is a better writer than E.L.James.

Not that all fan-fiction writers are hacks, bad people, etc. (Confession: I wrote fanfiction as a teenager, too! I even had friends who wrote “fanfics” about real life celebrities, now I look back and wonder what we were thinking. But none of us actually tried to make money off it.)

To bring this back to HP, the author “Cassandra Clare” also ironically got her start as an HP fanfiction writer, that was actually her pen-name even on the fanfiction sites. (I believe that when she got her book contract, she deleted all her fanfics from the sites she posted them on, but I’m sure it can be found if you look long enough), but her original fantasy work seems much more legitimate.