Harry Potter?!?

  • Thread starter Thread starter duckworth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Racism and Bigotry: The Harry Potter novels are a great way to introduce kids to the evils of racism and the fact that every person has inherent human rights.

In the Harry Potter world, sometimes children born to Muggle (non-magical) parents turn out to be magical themselves. These people are known as Muggle-born witches or wizards, and they often face prejudice and exclusion at the hands of those witches and wizards who come from old wizarding families (purebloods). Bigotry against Muggle-borns on the part of pureblood wizards, and how awful that is, is an important theme of the books. Especially bigoted purebloods even sometimes refer to Muggle-borns as “Mudbloods,” an extremely derogatory and inflammatory term.

Here’s an example from book seven:
SPOILER ALERT FOR DEATHLY HALLOWS!

Voldemort succeeds in taking over the lawful Wizarding world through a vicious coup near the beginning of book seven; he institutes a Muggle-born Registration Commission and deprives Muggle-born wizards of their rights, even having anti-Muggle bigotry taught in schools. This chilling transformation of society reflects the evils of bigoted, totalitarian regimes throughout history (Voldemort’s policies against Muggle-borns remind me of how Jews were treated in Nazi Germany even before the Holocaust began).

END SPOILER

Finally, this isn’t a theme, but a fact from the books that all orthodox Catholics should be celebrating:

The Size of the Weasley Family: In the Harry Potter series, Harry’s best friend is named Ron Weasley, and he has six siblings (five brothers, one sister). His family is also rather poor.

Now, popular society scorns large families and expects people to use contraception. But in the Harry Potter books, the Weasleys - some of Harry’s only true friends - are presented as a large, loving, warm, close-knit family who are living the way families truly should.

Indeed, it is the people in the books who are presented as bad and mean, like Harry’s rich classmate Draco Malfoy, who mock the Weasleys for having too many children. By having the bad guys take up the attitude that our society has for large families, Rowling makes a good point about the value of such families.

If you’re willing to overlook all that simply because the fictional “magic” in the series makes you irrationally uncomfortable, then it is absolutely true that you’re being hypocritical not to be bothered by the fact that, for example, the Holy Spirit is referred to in The Chronicles of Narnia as “Deep Magic from Before the Dawn of Time.”
 
Okay, this is for everyone who thinks Harry Potter is evil. Buy the whole series, and read the chapters at the end of each book where Dumbledore speaks. His words are exetremely valuable and have many lessons to teach. JK Rowling does an amazing job putting words in Dumbledore’s mouth. Just read everything DUmbledore says.

😃
 
And also, the main morale of the whole series is this: Love is the greatest power.

Look, if HP books didn’t have magic, then it would be rather boring, wouldn’t it? It makes it fun to read. And it’s just latin in the end;) .
 
dude even if they did, id still read them. look, im catholic, and do what is generally right, i make sure i am not in mortal sin, so im a valid catholic. but no one can tell me what to *think!🙂 *
 
My mom’s impression was that at times, HP and friends prevailed because they were willing to disobey. The head guy at the school even tells them it’s OK to disregard some of the rules (ie the end justifies the means). It’s the part where HP uses the magic watch to turn back time and save the creature and go free his godfather.
I doubt that the stories would be at all interesting to children, if they didn’t have that element in them. All of the great children’s books I’ve ever read (including The Chronicles of Narnia) contain an element of child disobedience.
 
i love harry potter. my priest says hes read more than one, so he obviously like them past just testing one out. he and i both agree it has a positive message. [im glad that tom guy got suspended, he just kept saying negative thing after negative thing. just because a culture changes a litte but doesent mean its against god!] check out my other post on the subject, just type in harry potter in the search box.
 
It is striking (I daresay, unsettling) to observe the vehemence with which those who have fallen “under the spell” of these books and movies defend them. Good grief, are they this way about all their likes and dislikes? I had (albeit, few) doubts about the HP series and whether I should allow my children to be exposed to it. After reading this thread, I have no doubts (and not only because reputable Church leaders have problems with it, not only because of the warnings in Sacred Scripture-see Rev. 21:8, among MANY ). The thing that’s struck me most about this particular thread is that so many who responded to it have suggested that a person is ignorant or obtuse because, given what he knows, he chooses to exclude the whole HP series from his childrens’ library, while the same respondents minimalize any criticism of the series as coming from the misinformed (un-converted?). Goodbye Charity! I’m sorry, Tom, that you were practically alone in pointing out the reasons that parents may want to see to it that this stuff be left alone. If there are other good books that my children -my oldest is an avid reader-can and do read, why on earth would I want to push HP on them (I admit that the media hype surrounding the phenomenon gets on my last nerve, too)? They won’t be less enlightened if they don’t read HP. And, quite frankly, it seems that they couldn’t care less about the books or the movies.
Keep up the good parenting, Tom. If you don’t parent your children, someone else will…:knight2:
 
I doubt that the stories would be at all interesting to children, if they didn’t have that element in them. All of the great children’s books I’ve ever read (including The Chronicles of Narnia) contain an element of child disobedience.
The child’s diobedience in “The Chronicles of Narnia” had negative consequences.
 
The child’s diobedience in “The Chronicles of Narnia” had negative consequences.
Disobedience has consequences in Harry Potter, too - unless you think ending up in the hospital is a treat of some kind?

By the way, there was more than one disobedient child in The Chronicles of Narnia. 😉
 
It is striking (I daresay, unsettling) to observe the vehemence with which those who have fallen “under the spell” of these books and movies defend them. Good grief, are they this way about all their likes and dislikes? I had (albeit, few) doubts about the HP series and whether I should allow my children to be exposed to it. After reading this thread, I have no doubts (and not only because reputable Church leaders have problems with it, not only because of the warnings in Sacred Scripture-see Rev. 21:8, among MANY ). The thing that’s struck me most about this particular thread is that so many who responded to it have suggested that a person is ignorant or obtuse because, given what he knows, he chooses to exclude the whole HP series from his childrens’ library, while the same respondents minimalize any criticism of the series as coming from the misinformed (un-converted?). Goodbye Charity! I’m sorry, Tom, that you were practically alone in pointing out the reasons that parents may want to see to it that this stuff be left alone. If there are other good books that my children -my oldest is an avid reader-can and do read, why on earth would I want to push HP on them (I admit that the media hype surrounding the phenomenon gets on my last nerve, too)? They won’t be less enlightened if they don’t read HP. And, quite frankly, it seems that they couldn’t care less about the books or the movies.
Keep up the good parenting, Tom. If you don’t parent your children, someone else will…:knight2:
I find this kind of response hilarious. Can’t you see the vehemence of the rhetoric on the other side? What you are saying, essentially, is that the people with scruples and objections always win, because if the rest of us dare to stand up to them and refute them, we are somehow guilty for simply defending the value of things we happen to like.

I agree that people need to lighten up and allow those who don’t like HP to simply leave the books alone. But the folks who don’t like HP are almost never happy to do that. They are determined to prove to everyone that the books are evil. And most of them boast that they haven’t actually read the books.

When Christians adopt this kind of fearful, suspicious attitude, only Satan benefits. So yes, I am vehement about this, not about whether someone reads HP or not (I agree that there are lots of other good books out there), but whether or not someone is willing to approach the world with a generous spirit, open to truth and goodness wherever it is to be found.

Edwin
 
If you pay attention, these books have a stronger Christian message than C.S. Lewis.

Harry (good) is trying to defeat Lord Voldemort (bad) and he relizes that LOVE is the most powerful thing on Earth.

I don’t recomend it for children who take it too seriously though. (like thinking they might go to hogwarts)
 
Edwin, who said anything about" winners" or “losers”? A bunch of adults defending Hogwarts, Dumbledore and the whole crew as though their lives depended on it… You must admit, there’s something a bit comical and unusual about that. I can understand crusades to defend great and durable works of literature, but can you really put HP in this catergory? I find the fervor wierd…

And ah, yes. The Potter-Haters, that army of medieval-thinking, paranoid zealots… Last I checked, those against exposing children to the series were outnumbered about 10 to1 on this thread. Looking at this, I’d say the “determined” ones are those who defend HP. I, for example, hadn’t planned on posting anything.

Your closing rhetoric aside, I’d rather err on the side of caution where my children are concerned…
 
Edwin, who said anything about" winners" or “losers”? A bunch of adults defending Hogwarts, Dumbledore and the whole crew as though their lives depended on it… You must admit, there’s something a bit comical and unusual about that. I can understand crusades to defend great and durable works of literature, but can you really put HP in this catergory? I find the fervor wierd…

And ah, yes. The Potter-Haters, that army of medieval-thinking, paranoid zealots… Last I checked, those against exposing children to the series were outnumbered about 10 to1 on this thread. Looking at this, I’d say the “determined” ones are those who defend HP. I, for example, hadn’t planned on posting anything.
Actually, I think the issue is more that those who condemn the novels (many without having read them, or read them with such blinders that their rendition of the novels looks like something completely different than what JK Rowling wrote) are not content when those of us who do enjoy the novels say “fine, then don’t read them”. Instead, they make charges against the book that have as much validity as “The Death Cookie” against the Catholic Church. Yes, accuse me of selling my soul and those of my children to the devil and I WILL be offended.

In all seriousness–look at how many threads on HP in this forum are started by someone who is against reading the HP novels vs. how many are started by those who enjoy the novels, and then maybe there’s a couple that are ‘should I/shouldn’t I read the novels?’

Most of us who enjoy the novels DO NOT say that everyone ought to read and enjoy them. It is those opposed to them who are indignant over the fact that there are others who disagree with them. Don’t enjoy the Harry Potter novels? Fine. Don’t want YOUR children to read them? Fine. Don’t want MY children to read them? Not fine–that’s MY choice and responsibility. In any case, there’s umpteen-dozen other novels in the library–in part because there’s only so many times you can re-read the same one but also because not all genres appeal to all readers. (Personally, my main guilty pleasure is the whodunnit–I just love piecing together the clues and being able to say “AHA, it’s …” before the protagonist does. Or detectives in the mold of Columbo and ‘just one more question …’)
 
It is simple really. It comes down to a daily struggle to help children maintain their faith into adulthood in a world that is contantly working to pull our kids away from Christ. HP is just another example of a culture that has turned from God and many parents see no reason to allow their kids to read them, even if the risk is fairly small, there is no need to voluntarily risk kids souls.
Its just a book.
Jeez.
Not all books are going to be expressing catholic morals, because;
A) Not all people are Catholic
B) Some people find it fun to read things that go beyond the scope of religion or reality.

just because it doesnt scream ‘god is great’ with every word, it doesnt mean its trying to ‘corrupt’ your kids.
 
Its just a book.
Jeez.
Not all books are going to be expressing catholic morals, because;
A) Not all people are Catholic
B) Some people find it fun to read things that go beyond the scope of religion or reality.

just because it doesnt scream ‘god is great’ with every word, it doesnt mean its trying to ‘corrupt’ your kids.
Precisely.

I know that I’m not Christian, but just for a moment let me be blatantly hypocritical and give you a religious suggestion: God created the world for you to enjoy it. Worship him to the degree that satisfies you, but don’t forget to LIVE. Just because Harry Potter doesn’t deal with God and has fantastical elements doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be enjoyed.
 
Precisely.

I know that I’m not Christian, but just for a moment let me be blatantly hypocritical and give you a religious suggestion: God created the world for you to enjoy it. Worship him to the degree that satisfies you, but don’t forget to LIVE. Just because Harry Potter doesn’t deal with God and has fantastical elements doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be enjoyed.
What an astonishingly simplistic and presumptuous comment. What makes you think that we who reject Harry Potter also reject all literature that doesn’t “deal” directly with God (not to mention all literature that has “fantastical elements”)? The rejection has more to do with what we perceive as misguiding for minds that are still in the process of developing. My childrens’ bookshelves are bursting with books (that they do enjoy, I promise you) on all sorts of subjects, but I monitor as best I can the contents of those books. If you oppose this, well, good luck raising your own kids in today’s world.
And as for LIVING, something about Catholic LIFE must have aroused your curiosity, or else you would never have joined this forum. I imagine it wouldn’t be much fun corrisponding with a bunch of narrow-minded zombies.:hypno:
Maybe it’s you who needs to reflect more about what it means to LIVE…
 
Edwin, who said anything about" winners" or “losers”?
I did. I said that if moderate Christians sit back and let the paranoid folks dominate Christian discourse about books and culture, then that section of Christianity wins. It influences sincere, devout Christians to believe that they must think this way in order to be really Christian; it tortures sensitive, intelligent Christian young people and drives many of them away from the Faith; and it causes non-Christians to believe that the “Harry haters” speak for Christians as a whole.

More to the point, I was referring to your argument that if we respond to vitriolic, obsessive attacks on HP, and if we do so vigorously and persistently, we are somehow the ones guilty of overreaction and of giving HP and importance it doesn’t deserve. In other words, you want to silence those who disagree with the anti-HP folks by telling them that you have been led to agree with the anti-HP case by the fact that people oppose it. This makes no sense whatsoever. If people are saying things that are indefensible, it is always legitimate to point out that they are wrong.

However, ultimately this is not about Harry Potter alone–it’s about how Christians read. Do we read with a hermeneutic of suspicion, or a hermeneutic of generosity? And yes, in certain respects I think our lives do depend on that question. I know that mine does. A hermeneutic of suspicion poisons the soul, and if I had not freed myself from it it would have driven me away from Christianity, or made me a twisted, cynical, bitter person, or most likely both.
A bunch of adults defending Hogwarts, Dumbledore and the whole crew as though their lives depended on it… You must admit, there’s something a bit comical and unusual about that.
Yet you see nothing comical or unusual about people attacking HP as if their lives depended on it. Why the double standard?
I can understand crusades to defend great and durable works of literature, but can you really put HP in this catergory? I find the fervor wierd…
What I find weird is your perception that the “fervor” is on the pro-Harry side. There is fervor on both sides, but generally the pro-Harry folks are just responding–and generally responding with relatively more moderation and relatively less commitment and intensity–to the attacks.

The quality of the HP books as literature is another topic. I suspect that they will prove to be quite durable within the canon of children’s literature. But I could be wrong. It is not a matter of supreme importance either way. You are being inconsistent, maybe even hypocritical, in implying that the pro-HP folks are defending a mere matter of taste. You know quite well, surely, that that is not what is at stake here. I for one have no problem with people who don’t like HP. I have a problem with people who say that Christians are bound in conscience to stay away from HP as dangerous to the Faith.

As I said, the real issue here is how Christians read in general, not HP in particular.
And ah, yes. The Potter-Haters, that army of medieval-thinking, paranoid zealots
They aren’t medieval-thinking. I wish to God they were.
Last I checked, those against exposing children to the series were outnumbered about 10 to1 on this thread. Looking at this, I’d say the “determined” ones are those who defend HP. I, for example, hadn’t planned on posting anything.
Ah, yes. You were neutral, but the wicked audacity of the majority on this board in actually defending the value of the HP books provoked you into taking a side. Sorry, I don’t buy it.
Your closing rhetoric aside, I’d rather err on the side of caution where my children are concerned…
And that’s the real issue. Your position is understandable, but it is disastrously, horrifyingly wrong. Caution kills, when it comes to matters of the soul. In fact, caution is heretical. It’s a form of Manichaeanism, because it assumes that evil is a positive, substantial thing that must be avoided, no matter how much good may also be present.

Edwin
 
What an astonishingly simplistic and presumptuous comment. What makes you think that we who reject Harry Potter also reject all literature that doesn’t “deal” directly with God (not to mention all literature that has “fantastical elements”)?
What makes me think that?

Hmm, let’s think about this.

Pre-Dumbledore being outed, there was nothing in Harry Potter that wasn’t in any other book of its kind. Meaning it was the usual stuff. Magic, dark lords, etc. Nothing harmful.

Post-Dumbledore, there still was nothing in Harry Potter that wasn’t in any other book of its kind.

So for you to reject Harry Potter, I can logically make the assumption that

A.) You won’t let your kids read books dealing with fantastical things like magic, making it safe to assume there are a LOT of things you don’t let your kids enjoy

or

B.) You suddenly have a problem with Harry Potter because Dumbledore retroactively became gay, also an overreaction.
And as for LIVING, something about Catholic LIFE must have aroused your curiosity, or else you would never have joined this forum.
I joined this forum to debate people with different points of view than my own.
Maybe it’s you who needs to reflect more about what it means to LIVE…
What does that even mean? I haven’t given you a hint of what my life is like.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top