Has any diocese banned centering prayer?

[blessedstar]

Exactly Dave. And as you noted in your quote from Abandonment to Divine Providence:

Unfortunately, what I see happening here is the same phenomenon I see in other areas of this site. People take on their particular preferences as the “one right way” as if it were doctrine. We see it in thread after thread on topics such as receiving in the hand/on the tongue; preferring Mass in Latin or the vernacular; receiving standing or kneeling; from the priest or from an EMHC; whether or not ALL women are called to wear headcoverings; ad infinitum.

The opinions on these subjects of preference, and how we feel called by God to express our devotion, instead become matters of great division as we make judgments about each other’s devotion and piety. Where the Church calls us to charity and a recognition that we are a people bound to unity even in our diversity, many feel strongly that that unity can only be with perfect lockstep and a “one size fits all” spirituality. I find that sad, but continue to know that in the end God recognizes the intent of our hearts and that He will make strong even what we unknowingly weaken in our best but frail attempts to please Him.

As I leave this topic, I wish peace to all here.

If you read any of my posts on prayer I say pray as you can and do not advise a way to pray because each person comes to their own way of praying.

I have only spoken out against this way of prayer because it is open to abuse, has dangers and errors within it and is undisputably a merging of eastern meditation with Catholic/Christian prayer and meditation.

I don’t know what is so important about cp. It won’t lead to contemplation. At best cp is a practise that if practised on a surface level will provide a precursor to prayer.

If cp is the whole of a persons prayer life then they are seriously restricting themselves in deepening their prayer with God.

I have never come across a Catholic way of prayer that is ‘hard to get hold of’ or to ‘understand’. The Rosary, the praying of the pslams, Lectio Divina, Liturgy of the Hours etc are not hard to understand, they are there for everyone and easy to understand the method by which to pray them. Cp is not authentic Catholic prayer.

That is what I believe, you believe as you do, it is nothing about sneering at other people’s prayer, I have not commented on anyone’s faith or love of God, I have called no-one ignorant nor have I called anyone uninformed and if I am misunderstood as doing that then you have hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Peace to you also and in the Living Prayer of my life

 

[JimR-OCDS]

True man is flawed and if a soul receives a vision words and expression of it distort as do processing it over and over in the mind, however its essence is never lost, as you say once it has been seen the grace has been received. What I am extremely perturbed by is that the soul does not thank and praise God. You say go back to prayer, that is true, but what prayer will that be?

No wonder Mary and Jesus appear to little children, they don’t make such a complex situations for themselves and are ready to be grateful to God and those around them, this is true humility.

Wasn’t St John of the Cross so grateful and enamoured with God it exploded into poetry? Wasn’t this his thanks and gratefullness to God?

Didn;'t Mary give her Magnificat to thank and praise God?

blessedstar,
the fruits of contemplation are expressed in our lives, and such, after we have left prayer. St. John didn’t write his poetry while in prayer, but after. It was his expression of infused contemplation. Same is true for our Blessed Mother, the Magnifact was not expressed during the Angel Gabriel’s visit, but after, when she was visiting her cousin Elizabeth.

These expressions are the fruits of contemplation, not contemplation itself.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hi Dave…I agree with your comments…St. Teresa of Avila and I think it was in the Interior Castle warned her nuns that what she wrote about, the different mansions, should not be considered the be all and end all of prayer and that in “my Father’s House there are many mansions”. St. Teresa wrote of a way that she had observed as the most common way and of her own personal experiences in the ‘higher mansions’. Can a person be led any other way than outlined by the great classical spiritual writers…of course, for “nothing is impossible to God”.
I dont really understand all about CP although I have read about some of it. I think that perhaps the objection of The Church lay with any notion that an effort to 'blank the mind" without an active spirituality and all it implies, is simply a blank mind which any person at all can achieve - even athiests and pagans. The “Jesus Prayer” to my mind follows CP in that the word “Jesus” is spoken in the mind repetively, also to a lesser degree the Rosary and Chaplet of Mercy.
The Church, I think, wants people to understand that any form of prayer or going aside to pray or meditate, without an active spiritual life will not, in all probability in the normal course, raise one to contemplation which is a sheer gift of God. It cannot be precipitated/earned etc. in any way. It is gift. And that a blanking of the mind, is simply a blank mind. The stillness of the senses and of memory and understanding, or their suspension as it is termed, is another matter altogether and is accompanied by growth in virtue and love of God and neighbour and is an ‘action’ of Graced Faith.

But I really am not conversant with CP, although I know a couple of people who practise it who are to my mind very holy and actively living a rich spiritual life daily.

Also, when not speaking ex cathedra, The Church in the past has needed to amend her statements at times having initiallly arrived at an incorrect conclusion. The statements made re CP were never ex cathedra and I think were simply a warning by The Church and a condemnation of certain understandings and concepts connected connected to CP…from what I understand and limited.
“The Jesus Prayer” which The Church advocates could be called the repitition of a mantra…the mantra being the Name of Jesus.

Blessings and regards…Barb
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_5.gifJMJ

Barb,
I think its important to note, that the Churh has said nothing about Centering Prayer. You will not find any statement addressing “Centering Prayer,” by the Church. What the Church warned about, which many people in this forum have suggested is about Centering Prayer, is actaully about Eastern practicies of blanking the mind, or of transcending out of body type experiences. This has never been taught as being part of Centering Prayer, never will be.

Centering Prayer is the basis of what is taught in “The Cloud of Unknowing,” and in the meditavive part of Lectio Divina.

In Centering Prayer, the person is going to their center, to where Jesus dwells, to rest in His presence, and to allow Him, to transform them into the holiness that is worthy of union with Him.

Centering Prayer is a method. It is not contemplation, but rather, it makes us available for contemplation.

If you wanted to change the title of Centering Prayer, you could just use what St. Teresa of Avila called it, “mental prayer.” Or what Broteher Lawrence called it, “Practicing the Presence Of God.”

This is what Centering prayer was taught as, from its beginning, by the founders, Fr. Merton, Father Keating and Fr Pennington. We only have Father Keating left with us now, and he has the most written information on this subject, than anyone. He is my authority on it.

If people are reading New Age publications, on Centering Prayer, and this seems to be the source of the critics, they are getting a hi-jacked version of Centering Prayer and I can understand their confusion. I do not agree with New Age version of Centering Prayer.

The bottom line to the question of this thread?

Centering Prayer has not banned Centering Prayer, because it would be an error to do so. It would be akin to banning the Jesus Prayer.

God Bless
Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I have only spoken out against this way of prayer because it is open to abuse, has dangers and errors within it and is undisputably a merging of eastern meditation with Catholic/Christian prayer and meditation.

 

[blessedstar]

Jim

Then why do you say I simply just don’t understand centering prayer. It’s clear I do understand it and I believe as I do.

The point is the Blessed Mother did not forget what God had said to her ‘nor just let go of it’ and nor did St John of the Cross to the degree that centering prayer teaches. You have taken my reply to your post out of context. You are confusing cp with contemplation.

You go off and pray as you like, but you cannot say to me that I am totally wrong to have concerns over this prayer method. The Vatican issued that as a warning as Barb rightly says, of the dangers of centering prayer.

You seem hell bent on saying it is not about centering prayer when Fr Keating clearly states centering prayer originated to suit the tastes of people who have been drawn to eastern methods of meditation.coutreach.org/intimacy/intimacy01b.htm

You believe as you do Jim, we will have to agree to disagree because this is now a pointless and circular argument. I have stated all of my reasons for being not infavour of this prayer method.

In the Living Prayer of my life.

 

[InLight247]

If people are reading New Age publications, on Centering Prayer, and this seems to be the source of the critics, they are getting a hi-jacked version of Centering Prayer and I can understand their confusion. I do not agree with New Age version of Centering Prayer.
Jim

I don’t know about New Age version of CP, and I am not getting involved in CP discussion.
But I am glad to see the above quote.

New Age, talking about God but not our Lord Jesus, can easily deceive people.

New Age spirituality is where the real danger is.

 

[blessedstar]

*Sometime in the mid-1970s, I raised the following question in a conference to our monastic community: **“Could we put the Christian tradition into a form that would be accessible to people in the active ministry today and to young people who have been instructed in an Eastern technique and might be inspired to return to their Christian roots if they knew there was something similar in the Christian tradition?” *Having devoted my life to the pursuit of the Christian contemplative tradition and having developed a profound appreciation of its immense value, I grieved to see it completely ignored by people who were going to the East for what could be found right at home, if only it were properly presented

centeringprayer.com/intimacy/intimacy01a.htm

This is the merging of Christian and Eastern practises.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

blessedstar

Then why do you say I simply just don’t understand centering prayer. It’s clear I do understand it and I believe as I do.

Because your statements about CP are consistently wrong.

The point is the Blessed Mother did not forget what God had said to her ‘nor just let go of it’ and nor did St John of the Cross to the degree that centering prayer teaches. You have taken my reply to your post out of context. You are confusing cp with contemplation.

Centering prayer doesn’t teach to go off and forget what God says. It teaches that to move back to the prayer word and not dwell and linger on what you have reveived. What you receive from God is imbedded in the heart as soon as He gives it. There is no need to add your own commentary to it, which will only distort it. So, St. John of the Cross says, return to your prayer.
I’m not confusing CP with contemplation, in fact I have said so many times, that CP is not contemplation, its getting frustrating to have repeat it.

You go off and pray as you like, but you cannot say to me that I am totally wrong to have concerns over this prayer method. The Vatican issued that as a warning as Barb rightly says, of the dangers of centering prayer.

The Vatican has said nothing about Centering Prayer. Please provide the text where they speak specifically about Centering Prayer, not Eastern practices, which Centering Prayer is not, despite your constantly insisting it is.

You seem hell bent on saying it is not about centering prayer when Fr Keating clearly states centering prayer originated to suit the tastes of people who have been drawn to eastern methods of meditation.coutreach.org/intimacy/intimacy01b.htm

Notice the statement, “the Christian Tradition”.

Father Keating said that the reason why he and the other monks began to dialog with Eastern religions,(with the approval of the Vatican) is because back in the late 60’s and early 70’s, young Catholics were abandoning the Catholic faith and joining religions in the East. When they looked into the traditions in Eastern religion, in particular meditation, which was drawing these young people, what they found was that the Catholic tradition of contemplative prayer, always existed. It just was not taught in the Church, except in monasteries and convents. So, they brought forth the Catholic tradition of mediation to the public and began to teach it to young people. They titled it, “Centering Prayer.” Many people young and old have found Centering Prayer to be exactly what they were looking for in the Catholic faith.

You believe as you do Jim, we will have to agree to disagree because this is now a pointless and circular argument. I have stated all of my reasons for being not infavour of this prayer method.

Find, disagree, but stop posting wrong information about Centering Prayer. Otherwise I will continue to point out the errors, so that people who are interested and lead toward Centering Prayer, can do so without fear and they will benefit from it, as myself and others have.

I don’t know why it is, you feel its your mission to sway people away from something you’re so confused about?

Jim

 

[blessedstar]

I believe what I believe, you believe what you like and do what you like.

This is a thread discussing cp, I can say as I believe and you can’t stop me, just as you can say as you believe and I can’t stop you. My conscience has no objection to Catholic prayer, but it does have objections to centering prayer. I haven’t told any lies I have quoted relaible sources that ARE Catholic and advise against the use of centering prayer and that is centering prayer as Catholics are practising it and not any other type or flavour of centering prayer.

You really are getting things out of perspective. Why don’t you gag me Jim. You really have no right to expect anyone to agree with you. I don’t mind if you disagree with me, get on with disagreeing with me, but Ican believe as I do and I will obey my conscience and you cannot force me to disobey it.

 

[blessedstar]

***St. Teresa herself comments on proposals to suspend the intellect in
prayer:

In the mystical theology which I began to describe, the understanding
ceases working because God suspends it… [if we] presume not to
think and to suspend it ourselves . . . we remain boobs and arid,
and attain neither the one nor the other.[11]***

EWTN strongly admonishes against the practise of centeriong prayer and equally points out its dangers…read here:

ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/MOSTPRAY.TXT

and

ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/NWMYSTIC.HTM

The Vatican was addessing Eastern methods of prayer that is Buddhism Toaism etc blended with Christian methods of prayer and was not addressing the New Age. The title of that document gives away what it is addressing.

So do as you like, but I have stated my case and I won’t go on at length any further.

In the Living Prayer of my life

 

[Joe_Monahan]

The subject has been explored to the point that argumentation on it has become circuitous and it is no longer serving any valid purpose of dialogue or debate.

Thanks to all who participated. The thread is now closed.

Joe Monahan