Has any diocese banned centering prayer?

[notself]

My problem is this site never identifies itself as either Catholic or any other Christian denomination. The site quotes Keating but I cannot find where it says that the method it teaches is the same as Keating’s. Although the site mention that Father Keating will be giving a talk at a conference. It appears that the conference is ecumenical so he may be just giving a talk, but may not be affiliated in any way with the organization or even be a supporter.

I am suspicious of organizations that are just floating around, giving impressions of being affiliated with the Church, but not really saying so. This is all they do say about themselves:

Contemplative Outreach is a spiritual network of individuals and small faith communities.

Now, where on the site do these people identify who they are or even if they are Catholic? It doesn’t mention the names of the small faith communities. It doesn’t mention the names of some of the people in their network.

This is why I made the comment that Catholics need to be careful before handing over the hard earned money.

As for the other links, if Father Keating is “off the reservation” with his teachings, he would have been censored by the Pope. This current pope has had no problem in censoring priest he feels are not following Catholic dogma. He recently had a South American priest recant his teachings and withdraw his book from the market.

The Vatican needs to stop being vague and either come out in support of or against Centering Prayer by name because things are getting confusing.

BennieP,
Thanks for the invitation.
.

 

[notself]

The various websites who disagree with CP are also very critical and give misleading statements about Eastern and especially Buddhist meditation. I don’t mind criticism. Everyone is has an opinion. I can even let the misleading statements pass. But the people on these sites say that they are in conformity with the Vatican. If that it so then the Vatican is misleading Buddhists when it sends greetings to the World’s Buddhists at the start of Vesakh.

Here is the 2001 Greeting from the Vatican from the Vatican site, Zenit.org

MESSAGE TO BUDDHISTS FOR FEAST OF VESAKH
From Cardinal Arinze, Council for Interreligious Dialogue

VATICAN CITY, APR. 30, 2001 (Zenit.org).- The feast of Vesakh, the most important for Buddhists, is celebrated May 7 in countries that follow the Therevada tradition. The feast marks the principal events of the life of Buddha. Here is the text of the message from Cardinal Francis Arinze, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, on the occasion of the feast.

---

Dear Buddhist Friends,

1. On behalf of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue I am happy to offer again this year hearty congratulations to all Buddhists on the occasion of Vesakh/Hanamatsuri. It is my prayer that this annual feast may bring joy and serenity to the hearts of all Buddhists throughout the world.

1. This year 2001 has been proclaimed by the United Nations as “The International Year of Dialogue between Civilizations”. This gives an opportunity to reflect on the foundations of dialogue, on its consequences and on the fruit which humanity may harvest from it. The dialogue of civilizations, the dialogue of cultures and the dialogue between religions are nothing less than human encounters whose purpose is to build up a civilization of love and peace. We are all called to promote such dialogue according to its distinctive forms in order to foster greater appreciation of other cultures and religions.

1. During their long histories both Christianity and Buddhism have developed particular ways of expressing themselves in distinct cultural forms. These differences may sometimes have been obstacles to dialogue in the past but they should be so no longer. Without ignoring our differences, and with utmost respect for the demands of truth, let us recognize the treasures of each other’s tradition. By means of dialogue and cooperation we can become more keenly aware of each tradition and together make a significant contribution to humanity.

1. Following upon the message of His Holiness Pope John Paul II for the World Day of Peace 2001, I wish to invite all people of good will to cooperate in building the civilization of love. To do this, His Holiness says, we need “to overcome all ethnocentric selfishness.” This will make it possible “to combine regard for one’s own identity with understanding of others and respect for diversity. Fundamental in this respect is the responsibility of education … (which) has a particular role to play in building a more united and peaceful world. It can help to affirm that integral humanism, open to life’s ethical and religious dimension, which appreciates the importance of understanding and showing esteem for other cultures and the spiritual values present in them” (n. 20).

1. I would like to recall the Interreligious Assembly, organized in 1999 by our Council, which took as its theme “On the Eve of the Third Millennium: Collaboration among the Different Religions”. It brought together 200 persons belonging to some 20 religious traditions. 28 Buddhists from different countries were present and took an active part in the deliberations and in the writing of the Final Message which stressed the importance of education for promoting understanding, cooperation and mutual respect. This message lists some of the ways and means by which each religious community can educate its respective members: formation of conscience, cultivation of a spiritual life (e.g. through prayer, meditation and mindfulness according to the practice of each religious tradition) and the provision of objective information about different religions especially in textbooks and through the mass media.

1. As Christians we join our hearts to yours and pray that the New Millennium which we have just begun may bring lasting peace for all. Happy Vesakh/Hanamatsuri.

Cardinal Francis Arinze,
President

[Original text: English; supplied by Vatican]

Let me ask a question.

Given the disparaging remarks on the anti CP websites about Buddhism and it’s meditation techniques and the very complimentary remarks given by the Vatican, can you understand why I feel the Church is putting out a double message to people of other faiths? If you were in my shoes, would you have confidence that the Vatican’s message of good will to Buddhists is actually supported by Catholics?

I know. That’s two questions.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

With regards to Eastern Religions, here’s some of what the Church says about Eastern Religions; Bold is my emphasis.

**The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. **Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

In Christ
Jim

 

[ncjohn]

Given the disparaging remarks on the anti CP websites about Buddhism and it’s meditation techniques and the very complimentary remarks given by the Vatican, can you understand why I feel the Church is putting out a double message to people of other faiths? If you were in my shoes, would you have confidence that the Vatican’s message of good will to Buddhists is actually supported by Catholics?

I know. That’s two questions.

The Church, as Jim quoted from the Vatican II documents, holds fast to its faith while not rejecting the universal truths that other religions have also come to know.

That being said, there are many within the traditionalist community, and some outside of it, who feel that the “We’re the one true Church; quit your whining and convert” approach is the only acceptable approach to ecumenism. Yes, the anti-CP websites tend to be in that camp, with their own agenda of disparaging and discouraging ecumenical outreach.

Fr. Keating does not discriminate as to whom he teaches. He is Catholic and Contemplative Outreach is his organization. He is more than happy to share his methods with others though, understanding that the more we put ourselves into the presence of God, the more God can provide us with His Truth. Since God does not lie, those who are gifted to hear Him most clearly are most likely to find the narrow gate.

That being said, I will henceforth honor the OP’s wishes and not debate the merits any further.

Peace,

 

[Bennie_P]

The various websites who disagree with CP are also very critical and give misleading statements about Eastern and especially Buddhist meditation. I don’t mind criticism. Everyone is has an opinion. I can even let the misleading statements pass. But the people on these sites say that they are in conformity with the Vatican. If that it so then the Vatican is misleading Buddhists when it sends greetings to the World’s Buddhists at the start of Vesakh.

Here is the 2001 Greeting from the Vatican from the Vatican site, Zenit.org

MESSAGE TO BUDDHISTS FOR FEAST OF VESAKH
From Cardinal Arinze, Council for Interreligious Dialogue

VATICAN CITY, APR. 30, 2001 (Zenit.org).- The feast of Vesakh, the most important for Buddhists, is celebrated May 7 in countries that follow the Therevada tradition. The feast marks the principal events of the life of Buddha. Here is the text of the message from Cardinal Francis Arinze, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, on the occasion of the feast.

Let me ask a question.

Given the disparaging remarks on the anti CP websites about Buddhism and it’s meditation techniques and the very complimentary remarks given by the Vatican, can you understand why I feel the Church is putting out a double message to people of other faiths? If you were in my shoes, would you have confidence that the Vatican’s message of good will to Buddhists is actually supported by Catholics?

I know. That’s two questions.

The Vatican is not giving a double message, but those that cannot distingish the difference between dialogue and syncretism of religions that are causing the confussion. Yes we are called to love, provide for, respect, etc. and etc. all no matter what thier belief system or religion may be. But at the same time as Catholics we are not to pick and choose from the buffet as to say what we think which religion is bettter at this and another better at that, say a blessing over it and call it Catholicism. Many of the leadership that promotes centering prayer are dissenters on many other aspects of the Church teachings. Centering Prayer is being used as wedge to split the Church apart and its focus is on individual experience and choice, not Church unity. If you follow this link which was provided by the promoters of CP in this thread centeringprayer.com/frntpage.htm and scroll down you see Fr. Keating in a photography with one Catholic dessenter who promotes SSM, Women ordination, divorce, abortion and the number one dessenting group within and against the Catholic Church (which has been excommunicated in the Diocese of Lincoln) Call to Action, Oh yes he also teaches centering prayer. This is the web site we are suppose to put our trust in telling us the truth about centering prayer. Wovles in Sheep Clothing is the phrase that does come to mind every time the names of the leaders and promoters for centering prayer. The Church gives warnings about religous indifferentism and at the same time we are to love our neighbors, but we are not to sleep with thier wives nor worship thier idols. IMHO

 

[notself]

It appears that the Buddhists are caught in the middle of a family feud. I think I will withdraw from this thread as well given the over all tone.

I want to thank everyone who posted for their insight into this situation. I wish you the best in resolving this very serious divide that has occurred in the Church over the past 10 years or so.

From an outside perspective, it appears there is a tiny crack in the very foundation of what was once a united Church. I hope that all Catholics can come to agreement on what is appropriate Catholic practice in this time and in this world.

Metta
notself

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The centeringprayer.com/frntpage.htm and scroll down you see Fr. Keating in a photography with one Catholic dessenter who promotes SSM, Women ordination, divorce, abortion and the number one dessenting group within and against the Catholic Church (which has been excommunicated in the Diocese of Lincoln) Call to Action, : IMHO

The picture is Fr. Rohr with Fr. Keating. Fr Rohr is a Catholic dessenter? According to who?

Also, aren’t you confusing “The Center For Action and Contemplative Living” with Call To Action?

Either way, Fr. Keating’s teaching on Centering Prayer is why they are linked to Contemplative Outreach, who do not discriminate against those who Fr Keatings teachings. Also, it doesn’t mean Father Keating supports groups in conflict with Catholic Teaching, as you seem to be stating.

Pope John Paul II similarly accused of embracing teachings outside of Catholic doctrine, when he hosted an Religious Dialogue, with leaders of non-Christian religions in Assisi. The charge of course was nonsense by mostly members of the Pius X society.

Peace
Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here is the Comtemplative Outreach Vission Statement;

Contemplative Outreach
Vision Statement

Contemplative Outreach is a spiritual network of individuals and small faith communities committed to living the contemplative dimension of the Gospel in everyday life through the practice of Centering Prayer. The contemplative dimension of the Gospel manifests itself in an ever-deepening union with the living Christ and the practical caring for others that flows from that relationship.

Our purpose is to share the method of Centering Prayer and its immediate conceptual background. We also encourage the practice of Lectio Divina, particularly its movement into Contemplative Prayer, which a regular and established practice of Centering Prayer facilitates.

We identify with the Christian Contemplative Heritage. While we are formed by our respective denominations, we are united in our common search for God and the experience of the living Christ through Centering Prayer. We affirm our solidarity with the contemplative dimension of other religions and sacred traditions, with the needs and rights of the whole human family, and with all creation. centeringprayer.com/vision.htm#Contemplative%20Outreach%20Vision%20Statement

In other words, they’re not interested in the political agendas others may have. Their focus is on prayer and living the gospel.

They do not turn away people or groups, interested in learning about Centering Prayer.

Peace
Jim

 

[KCT]

Banned it where? At parish activities? In private homes? In personal prayer? —KCT

 

[Bennie_P]

The picture is Fr. Rohr with Fr. Keating. Fr Rohr is a Catholic dessenter? According to who?

Also, aren’t you confusing “The Center For Action and Contemplative Living” with Call To Action?

Either way, Fr. Keating’s teaching on Centering Prayer is why they are linked to Contemplative Outreach, who do not discriminate against those who Fr Keatings teachings. Also, it doesn’t mean Father Keating supports groups in conflict with Catholic Teaching, as you seem to be stating.

Pope John Paul II similarly accused of embracing teachings outside of Catholic doctrine, when he hosted an Religious Dialogue, with leaders of non-Christian religions in Assisi. The charge of course was nonsense by mostly members of the Pius X society.

Peace
Jim

I not confussed by anything Jim, it is the way it is set up, is like a terrorist cell so independant actions can be disowned by the others. It is really simple to connect the dots. It is just some refuse to see what is happening, that is why we have the saying “Wolves in Sheep Clothing.” Believe me I’m not ultra right wing, or a ultra traditionist. May God give you the Happiness you need and the ability to see through your own eyes. PAX

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I not confussed by anything Jim, it is the way it is set up, is like a terrorist cell so independant actions can be disowned by the others. It is really simple to connect the dots. It is just some refuse to see what is happening, that is why we have the saying “Wolves in Sheep Clothing.” Believe me I’m not ultra right wing, or a ultra traditionist. May God give you the Happiness you need and the ability to see through your own eyes. PAX

Now you’re comparing them to terrorist groups?

This is nonsense and of course, nothing more than your own opinion.

Jim

 

[FCEGM]

The picture is Fr. Rohr with Fr. Keating. Fr Rohr is a Catholic dessenter? According to who?

soulforce.org/article/464

catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=6819

 

[Bennie_P]

Now you’re comparing them to terrorist groups?

This is nonsense and of course, nothing more than your own opinion.

Jim

I’m calling Call to Action and other groups along with those that attach themselves to such groups that are trying to undermine the Church teachings to the mode of operation that terrorist groups use, not the general Catholic worshiper that practices CP for I just believe they don’t have a clear understanding on what they are doing. You may think it is nonesense, but that is OK you are free to do so, as well free to your choice of devoutional practices.

But I’ve seen a connection with those that teach CP at local diocesan level to also be attached to and/or share the views of such groups. They also quietly introduce teachings that are contrary to Church teachings, in areas of abortion, women ordination, SSM and many other troubling ideas.

Splitting hairs and denouncing the magistrium of the Church is a trade mark of such mind sets.

If a religous is orthodox, I just don’t see how they can have an ongoing working association with such groups, mabe others can but not I. For if you are an orthodox leader and people trust you, then they see you having no trouble with unorthodox teachings and those that promote them, they tend to trust your judgement and too easley accept and absorb the unorthodox and heretical teachings. IMHO.

Jesus associated with the sinner in order to give the sinner the truth. He didn’t hang out with the leaders that were heretics and hypocrites, so not to confuse his message.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Bennie P

I’m calling Call to Action and other groups along with those that attach themselves to such groups that are trying to undermine the Church teachings to the mode of operation that terrorist groups use.

I have not found any connection to Call To Action at the website.

I have not seen anything at the Contemplative Outreach, supporting Call To Action or other groups that are attempting to undermine the teachings of the Church.

I’ve seen articles you and others have posted who make these accusations with little evidence to suppprt their claims.

If groups, not in sync with the Catholic Church doctrines, happen to go to Centering Prayer workshops and link themselves to Contemplative Outreach, it hardly justifies accusing him with being advocates of such groups.

Also, just because such groups do Centering Prayer, doesn’t make Centering Prayer wrong. The same groups also pray the Rosary and go to Mass.

Jesus ate with sinners, the Pharisees accused him of being a sinner because of it. I see a parallel here.

Jim

 

[repo_man]

i don’t see how dangerous it is to clear your mind of all thoughts and attachments and just be. how much more pure can you get? if god is omnipresent, surely we can find him inside ourselves assuming we don’t mistake ourselves for him. or our will for his.

god created the universe. but, just as humans reproduce, everything he creates contains a part of him.

just as it’s easier to hear someone call for you when it is silent outside, god, who speaks within our minds, can be heard much better in exterior and interior silence. when i am in a completely humble silent state, i experience god. and that goes beyond any amount of knowledge of apologetics. the ability to feel god’s prescence in silence. conversation with god cannot be limited to words or pictures.

the holy spirit acts in all religions in some small way. eastern thought isn’t flawed in the method in which they seek god. god is everywhere and therefore can be found anywhere. their flaw is the inability to realize that the transcendence they experience is the triune god of the bible: father, son and holy spirit. creator of the world.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

repo man

just as it’s easier to hear someone call for you when it is silent outside, god, who speaks within our minds, can be heard much better in exterior and interior silence. when i am in a completely humble silent state, i experience god. and that goes beyond any amount of knowledge of apologetics. the ability to feel god’s prescence in silence. conversation with god cannot be limited to words or pictures.

How true!

It is said that the language of God is silence.

St. Teresa of Avila says that it is in the silence of our inner being, that God’s speaks to us best.

In Christ
Jim

 

[FCEGM]

i don’t see how dangerous it is to clear your mind of all thoughts and attachments and just be. how much more pure can you get? if god is omnipresent, surely we can find him inside ourselves assuming we don’t mistake ourselves for him. or our will for his. .

We can’t assume that “clearing our minds” will allow only God to enter. THAT is the danger. Our minds were created not to be vacuums just waiting for anything to pop in; they were created to know God. If our mind is empty it is an easy target for forces inimicle to Him. This is why St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Jesus emphasize love for the person of Jesus, not for some anonymous spirit wafting its way into our mind. Both emphasize that the basis of all true prayer is a profound love for the Person of Jesus Christ. So when one is drawn by grace and fidelity to the movement of God in the soul toward contemplation one isn’t encountering emptiness, but in the darkness of faith is meeting the One Who is more present to oneself than oneself is present to oneself.

It is not in prayer that the self-emptying is to be pursued, but in the life of the will, i.e., in the virtues to be accomplished: denial of self is to be of the senses and passions and pride of mind, and this follows essentially from the goal, which is not union of consciousness with the energy of the cosmos behind all the definite manifestations seen as an illusion, but rather union of love with the Trinity of Divine Persons dwelling within by grace, a union of wills. Self-emptying of the will of desires contrary to or besides the love of God is the task.

god created the universe. but, just as humans reproduce, everything he creates contains a part of him.

Not so. God, being Simple, is present wholly in everything He creates. He can neither be divided into parts, nor received in part.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

FCEGM

We can’t assume that “clearing our minds” will allow only God to enter. THAT is the danger.

Its not possible to clear our minds of all thought. Clearing our minds in prayer means clearing thoughts that are not centered on God. Even here, its impossible to completely stop unwanted thoughts from coming into your mind and distracting you, from your intention of resting in the presence of God. So, its beneficial to use a sacred word, from Scripture or other devotions, and when you become aware of a distraction, to merely repeat the sacred word, until you are once again centered on God.

My sacred word is “Lord Jesus.” Some people use the words of the Jesus Prayer, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.”

The point is not the word, but directing our will toward our intention, and that is resting in the presence of God.

Jim

 

[repo_man]

Not so. God, being Simple, is present wholly in everything He creates. He can neither be divided into parts, nor received in part.

touché. still don’t agree with the other point though.

 

[Edward62]

I’m not sure why anyone would ban prayer at all. It is, after all, talking to and listening to God!