Has anybody watched this documentary? About Marian apparitions?

[R_C]

Would you have preferred I used a heavier word … like false, or a lie? Untrue is much kinder, don’t you think? In quoting the two Doctors in that light, you were more than just “slightly erroneous.” Why are you sugar coating this?

I don’t know…I guess because I didn’t want to think that I had inadvertently misled others…out of pride?

However, after trying to recall why I was so sure of my words, I finally remembered the exact phrase I was referring to (translated from Italian):

Any soul that does not treat interior locutions like an enemy can possibly escape deceptions of minor or major degree in many of them.

(From Ascent to Mt. Carmel, Book 2, Chapter 30, according to my notes).

However my memory failed me: it was “like an enemy”, not “as if they were from the enemy”.

Again, thanks for pointing this out. I assure you that I will be extra careful before making such “strong” assertions.

 

[Sirach2]

I’m happy to see that you esteem the teachings of St. John of the Cross, R_C.
It would be helpful to review this entire chapter then, because it restates what I had been trying to say previously.
3. the good that overflows in the soul from supernatural apprehensions, when they come from a good source, is produced passively in the soul at that very instant when they are represented to the senses, without the working of any operation of the faculties.
Wherefore it is unnecessary for the will to perform the act of receiving them; …] Nay, rather, as the spirituality coming from those imaginary apprehensions is given passively to the soul, even so must the soul conduct itself passively with respect to them, setting no store by its inward or outward actions. To do this is to preserve the feelings that have their source in God, for in this way they are not lost through the soul’s base manner of working.
He is not suggesting we treat these as an enemy, but to remain passive concerning them. But here is the really important part, where we are not to set them aside passively, but to actually recall them.
And in this case the soul will make account, not of feelings of sweetness or delight, nor of figures, but of the feelings of love which they cause it. And with this sole end in view it may at times recall that image and apprehension caused it by love, in order to set the spirit on its course of love.

For, though the effect of that apprehension be not so great afterwards, when it is recalled, as it was on the first occasion when it was communicated, yet, when it is recalled, love is renewed, and the mind is lifted up to God, especially when the recollection is of certain figures, images or feelings which are supernatural, and are wont to be sealed and imprinted upon the soul in such a way that they continue for a long time – some of them, indeed, never leave the soul.

And those that are thus sealed upon the soul produce in it Divine effects of love, sweetness, light and so forth, on almost every occasion when the soul returns to them, sometimes more so and sometimes less;** for it was to this end that they were impressed upon it. And thus this is a great favour for the soul on which God bestows it, for it is as though it had within itself a mine of blessings.**
I realize, since you said you had not read all of the Ascent, you may not have come to this chapter yet, for it is at the end, Book III. It is late, or I would try to share what St. Teresa said, as well.

God bless you.

 

[Sirach2]

However, after trying to recall why I was so sure of my words, I finally remembered the exact phrase I was referring to (translated from Italian):

(From Ascent to Mt. Carmel, Book 2, Chapter 30, according to my notes).

However my memory failed me: it was “like an enemy”, not “as if they were from the enemy”.

I’m sorry, R_C. I should have looked up that chapter before responding, but I had more time this morning, and my mind works a little better when it is fresh.

This entire chapter (Book II - 30) is speaking about “formal locutions” which are very rare and are granted mostly to persons of deep spirituality. The previous chapters (28 and 29) speak about the more common locutions, called “successive” which may come to many.

In my last post to you, the linked chapter discusses other types of supernatural apprehensions, including visions or apparitions, which is the title of this thread. So you lost me as to what you were saying, until I realized just now that you were speaking about formal locutions.

That being the case, I invite you to read section 5, where St. John states:
5. The soul must no more attach importance to all these formal words than to the other, or successive words; for, apart from the fact that to do so would occupy the spirit with that which is not a legitimate and proximate means to union with God – namely, faith – it might also very easily cause it to be deceived by the devil. For sometimes it is hardly possible to know what words are spoken by a **good spirit, and what by an evil spirit. **
Once again, in his wisdom, St. John advises the soul to attach no importance to them - but he does not advise us to consider them an enemy or to reject them, but rather that we speak of them to a spiritual director to be led in regard to them.

If you still want to discuss this, maybe Spirituality in a new thread would be a great idea.

 

[Zooey]

Right. Both are wrong of course, but I’ve never encountered a single n-C who held that Mary was the the fulfillment of Revelation 17.

As for the video in question. Don’t waste your time since the allegation has no basis in fact. Arguing with the irrational gets you nowhere.

What Michael says here is absolutely correct. I had a copy of a video pressed on me years ago, at a garage sale. Since the folks were giving it away, I took the opportunity to get a copy. I never heard such a load of hogwash in my life. The whole thing never made the slightest differentiation between approved, unapproved, and condemned apparitions. What ever was the worse sounding for Catholics was what they wanted you to believe.
Please note:I have not been able to view the linked video, so I cannot KNOW that it is identical, but I do know that this sort of thing is a popular pursuit for the more militant sort of anti-Catholics. None of it is worth the time it takes up. Its all the fodder for the crowd who set up bizarre & hate-filled websites to attack others.
Better to spend your time in prayer for the poor folks who are drawn in by it.

 

[R_C]

Thank you so much, Sirach2