Has anyone changed there mind here?

[latinmass]

Latinmass, we already know what your opinions are. Those, as much as you might like to think so, are not references as to what music is and is not licit. Again, your sources please. No answer, will indicate you do not have any, and that will tell us all we need to know.
Deacon Ed B

If you read what Pope Benedict has written on Sacred Music, I have the website on a post in this thread, he speaks specifically to rock music and contemporary music. Have you read this by the Pope? If you have, how do you interpret this? Any other questions on this must be addressed to the Pope. You can read as well as me. I am just passing along what the Pope said. All can read and decide for themselves.

 

[MrS]

I can remember a number of recent articles linked at Zenit which discussed the need to have sacred music.

If memory serves, the instructions given were quite one sided… traditional instruments yes… untraditional instruments no.

Either way, I love the music of Aquinas, and I can not imagine a guitar or drum accompanyment.

Years ago I had a pastor with a tremendous voice. He would often sing the entry hymn, weekday masses, acapelo(?). The “Balm of Gilead” was awesome in this manner. But then, he had a lot of “crazy traditional” quirks:thumbsup:

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[pnewton]

If memory serves, the instructions given were quite one sided… traditional instruments yes… untraditional instruments no.

There are no specific instruments being listed as illicit in any of the recent Church documents.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

I know this all too well, my old roommate was a lawyer

You’re lucky – I have a sister who is a lawyer.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

wow… EM found a post that did not get answered and now has something to post about… again and again. And it is not even your question.

Exagerate much? Or just bash?

 

[Aragorn1]

If you read what Pope Benedict has written on Sacred Music, I have the website on a post in this thread, he speaks specifically to rock music and contemporary music. Have you read this by the Pope? If you have, how do you interpret this? Any other questions on this must be addressed to the Pope. You can read as well as me. I am just passing along what the Pope said. All can read and decide for themselves.

Can you link to this? I’d like to read it.

Either way, I love the music of Aquinas, and I can not imagine a guitar or drum accompanyment.

Out of curiosity, what is the “music of Aquinas”? I’ve never heard that expression before…

 

[Cat]

Hello Cat. I’m not asking this to be judgemental, just curious, okay? Nor am I saying either form of Mass, the New or the Latin Mass is better than the other, but have you attended Latin Masses very often? They are quite beautiful. I suppose one reason I think that is that I grew up with ONLY the Latin Mass. The Majesty and Dignity of the Latin Mass is what I love and miss. Again, as stated in the previous post by zerocrossing.

I’ve never attended a Latin Mass. I’ve seen bits and pieces on TV when I’ve stayed in a hotel and had access to cable (EWTN).

I have no interest in attending the one that is less than two miles from my house. NO interest whatsoever.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don’t consider any language as beautiful as my own heart language, English. I took Latin in high school and disliked it. I absolutely hate the idea of referring to a missal to translate the various prayers. To me, this puts a barrier between me and the Lord. JMO.

I consider chant “spooky” music, the stuff of horror movies. I disagree strongly that it expresses the feelings of the Blessed Virgin as she watched her Son die on the cross. Personally, I think a really tough metal rock song would be more likely to express her anquish and grief. I can’t imagine her standing there chanting or singing polyphonic hymns. JMO, though.

I agree with whoever said earlier that TLM is “theatrical.” JMO.

I am very glad that it is available for those who feel more comfortable. I think that for historical purposes, it should be kept. JMO.

But I am even more glad that the Church has decreed that the NO Mass, in the vernacular, set with the music and instruments of the culture-is valid and licit for the Catholic faithful.

I am becoming more and more upset and angry reading the posts from those of you who insist that the NO is full of abuses, and making untrue claims that rock music is illicit or irreverent or inappropriate. Not according to MY bishop. And remember, this is the same bishop who has maintained the TLM in his diocese.

If I hated my Mass as much as some of you hate yours, I would seriously consider becoming Protestant and starting my own church and doing things perfectly, the way I like them.

 

[Aragorn1]

I’ve never attended a Latin Mass. I’ve seen bits and pieces on TV when I’ve stayed in a hotel and had access to cable (EWTN).

I have no interest in attending the one that is less than two miles from my house. NO interest whatsoever.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don’t consider any language as beautiful as my own heart language, English. I took Latin in high school and disliked it. I absolutely hate the idea of referring to a missal to translate the various prayers. To me, this puts a barrier between me and the Lord. JMO.

I consider chant “spooky” music, the stuff of horror movies. I disagree strongly that it expresses the feelings of the Blessed Virgin as she watched her Son die on the cross. Personally, I think a really tough metal rock song would be more likely to express her anquish and grief. I can’t imagine her standing there chanting or singing polyphonic hymns. JMO, though.

I agree with whoever said earlier that TLM is “theatrical.” JMO.

I am very glad that it is available for those who feel more comfortable. I think that for historical purposes, it should be kept. JMO.

But I am even more glad that the Church has decreed that the NO Mass, in the vernacular, set with the music and instruments of the culture-is valid and licit for the Catholic faithful.

I am becoming more and more upset and angry reading the posts from those of you who insist that the NO is full of abuses, and making untrue claims that rock music is illicit or irreverent or inappropriate. Not according to MY bishop. And remember, this is the same bishop who has maintained the TLM in his diocese.

If I hated my Mass as much as some of you hate yours, I would seriously consider becoming Protestant and starting my own church and doing things perfectly, the way I like them.

Well, I don’t feel rock music is appropriate for the Mass, but this is, until any official document is forthcoming, purely subjective. At any rate, to my knowledge it does not invalidate the Mass nor make it illicit.

 

[Joannm]

I consider chant “spooky” music, the stuff of horror movies. I disagree strongly that it expresses the feelings of the Blessed Virgin as she watched her Son die on the cross. Personally, I think a really tough metal rock song would be more likely to express her anquish and grief. I can’t imagine her standing there chanting or singing polyphonic hymns. JMO, though.

I agree with whoever said earlier that TLM is “theatrical.” JMO.
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I really love the rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar. I first heard it in HS in 970 and saw the play one year later. It had a great influence in keeping me in the Church. I listen to it constantly during Lent and even used it as the basis for a talk I gave to our Rosary Society and they loved it. So rock music can have a postitive affect on people.

I also think TLM is more theatrical. I prefer the simplicty of the Ordinary Form of the Mass.

 

[stmaria]

=Cat;3421167]I’ve never attended a Latin Mass. I’ve seen bits and pieces on TV when I’ve stayed in a hotel and had access to cable (EWTN).

I have no interest in attending the one that is less than two miles from my house. NO interest whatsoever.

I consider chant “spooky” music, the stuff of horror movies. I disagree strongly that it expresses the feelings of the Blessed Virgin as she watched her Son die on the cross.

Personally, I think a really tough metal rock song would be more likely to express her anquish and grief

. I can’t imagine her standing there chanting or singing polyphonic hymns. JMO, though.

I

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Any suggestions? Stairway to heaven? Whole lotta Love?

 

[ProVobis]

“Latinmass, we already know what your opinions are. Those, as much as you might like to think so, are not references as to what music is and is not licit. Again, your sources please. No answer, will indicate you do not have any, and that will tell us all we need to know.
Deacon Ed B”

What’s with all the grilling? Rock music can be an occasion of sin, with or without the Mass. If one sees it as a mortal sin, then for him, it’s a mortal sin. Seems as if you and Brother John are too obsessed with how much you can get away with during Mass. I don’t think that’s how it’s intended to work.

 

[Cat]

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Any suggestions? Stairway to heaven? Whole lotta Love?

Stop making fun of me, please.

If you are serious about suggestions, there is a rock musical called “The Virgin” that has some very powerful pieces. The full name is The Virgin-A Dramatic Rock Opera, and it was written by Adrian Snell and Phil Thomson.

Another really good piece is called The Victor, and was written by Jamie Owens Collins. It’s rather dated “rock” music and probably a lot of kids would hoo hoo it, but to me, it is good rock. Here is a YouTube version sung by the great Steve Green: youtube.com/watch?v=V_0EJ0lEQ-4

 

[Eilish_Maura]

What’s with all the grilling? Rock music can be an occasion of sin, with or without the Mass. If one sees it as a mortal sin, then for him, it’s a mortal sin. Seems as if you and Brother John are too obsessed with how much you can get away with during Mass. I don’t think that’s how it’s intended to work.

Latinmass did NOT say anything about rock music being a sin or near occasion of sin.

Regarding the ‘grilling’ - claiming that something is licit or illicit normally draws a certain amount of pressure to come up with the ‘proof’ as these are not terms used lightly.

 

[ProVobis]

“Latinmass did NOT say anything about rock music being a sin or near occasion of sin.”

And, what, are you going to split hairs with God when you stand before Him too?

I repeat, there are certain events which can be an occasion of sin, such as music, sacrilege, or whatever. If I see occasions of sin within the Mass, then I’m under obligation to avoid them. Forget validity or licitness.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

“Latinmass did NOT say anything about rock music being a sin or near occasion of sin.”

And, what, are you going to split hairs with God when you stand before Him too?

I repeat, there are certain events which can be an occasion of sin, such as music, sacrilege, or whatever. If I see occasions of sin within the Mass, then I’m under obligation to avoid them. Forget validity or licitness.

If rock music of any kind is a near occasion of sin for you then that is your issue - no one else’s.

 

[stmaria]

=Cat;3421227]Stop making fun of me, please.

If you are serious about suggestions, there is a rock musical called “The Virgin” that has some very powerful pieces. The full name is The Virgin-A Dramatic Rock Opera, and it was written by Adrian Snell and Phil Thomson.

Another really good piece is called The Victor, and was written by Jamie Owens Collins. It’s rather dated “rock” music and probably a lot of kids would hoo hoo it, but to me, it is good rock. Here is a YouTube version sung by the great Steve Green: youtube.com/watch?v=V_0EJ0lEQ-4

Do you really want this kind of music at the Holy Sacrific of the Mass???

Quote Cat
I consider chant “spooky” music, the stuff of horror movies. I disagree strongly that it expresses the feelings of the Blessed Virgin as she watched her Son die on the cross. Personally, I think a really tough metal rock song would be more likely to express her anquish and grief. I can’t imagine her standing there chanting or singing polyphonic hymns. JMO, though

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The most beautiful music in the world is" the stuff of horror movies?" You are in my prayers

 

[Brother_John]

Seems as if you and Brother John are too obsessed with how much you can get away with during Mass. I don’t think that’s how it’s intended to work.

Not at all. As I said previously (maybe in another thread), My church was built in 1905. If you were to look at it today, other than some modern ammeneties like electricity and plumbing, it looks the same as it did then…except perhaps for the Communion rail.

But I feel that “You Are Mine” is every bit as worthy a hymn at Mass as “Faith of our Fathers”. I like them both. I do not go to CAF and declare that one or the other is illicit.

The Latin Mass is beautiful. But, I am perfectly happy with the OF/NO in the vernacular. I do not declare the TLM to be illicit. I don’t even bring the issue of indult into conversation about the TLM.

Communion on the tongue is FINE for those who desire it, but so is standing and receiving by hand. I don’t go on CAF and declare someone to be WRONG or “Less Holy” if they kneel and receive on the tongue. I DON’T CARE if receiving by hand is by indult, or how that indult came to be. It was granted, and that is all that matters.

I have no desire to “get away with” anything where my faith is concerned. But I also don’t go to Mass with a mental notebook and checklist, to verify that the Mass is celebrated in accordance with my personal interpretation of Church teaching.

I am tired of being directed to a silly website where a priest has little stuffed animals at his altar. That has nothing to do with Vatican II, The Spirit of Vatican II, or the NO/OF Mass. That is one person’s journey to whatever it is that makes them happy, and that only applies if that website isn’t a downright hoax to begin with.

I hope to be invited into the Kingdom of Heaven when my life here is over, period. And, I don’t believe that declaring someone’s choice of music or language to be illicit, indult, insult, or whatever, to be part of that journey.

Any uncharitable remarks I may have posted have been in response to blatant declarations as to how my participation in Mass is “wrong”, “illicit”, or otherwise flawed in the eyes of that poster.

End of rant.

 

[iona_scribe]

The most beautiful music in the world is" the stuff of horror movies?" You are in my prayers

Cat isn’t the first person to think that about the musical style. Polyphonic chant was considered weird and creepy at first before people got used to it and it was eventually sanctioned by the church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphony

This is exactly why some flexibility was built into the liturgy with Sacrosantorum Concilium. There is no completely objective standard for music. Gregorian chant speaks to me in a certain way that a Bach organ piece or a rock opera speaks to others.

 

[Aragorn1]

Stop making fun of me, please.

If you are serious about suggestions, there is a rock musical called “The Virgin” that has some very powerful pieces. The full name is The Virgin-A Dramatic Rock Opera, and it was written by Adrian Snell and Phil Thomson.

Another really good piece is called The Victor, and was written by Jamie Owens Collins. It’s rather dated “rock” music and probably a lot of kids would hoo hoo it, but to me, it is good rock. Here is a YouTube version sung by the great Steve Green: youtube.com/watch?v=V_0EJ0lEQ-4

This is one of the major problems of having rock music during Mass: after a time the music is dated and must be changed for something that is “in”. There is thus no stability whatsoever.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

This is one of the major problems of having rock music during Mass: after a time the music is dated and must be changed for something that is “in”. There is thus no stability whatsoever.

No - it would not have to be changed.