Cat, I’m not at all attacking you personally, but frankly, it wreaks of liberalism.
“…the music and instruments of the culture”. ??
Do you feel culture and society should influence liturgy and doctrine ?
Chant is “spooky” and HMC has gotten it all wrong for centuries ?
"If I hated my Mass as much as some of you hate yours, I would seriously consider becoming Protestant and starting my own church and doing things perfectly, the way I like them. " ?
You mean like Luther ? Do you really mean that ?
Gal, one of these days you’ve got to accept that you are a Catholic now and check your protestant isms at the door.
I’m sorry, but you are attacking things undeniably Catholic.
Heavy Metal to replace Chant ? I suppose it may work well in a Black Mass lol.
Don’t even reply. Put me on your ignore list or something.
Mercy.
You write this harsh condemning note and then ask me not to reply? That’s rather uncharitable of you. Please do me the courtesy of reading my reply.
I have never put ANYONE on an ignore list.
Do I feel that culture and society should influence liturgy and doctrine?
Stop putting words into my mouth. I said NOTHING about liturgy and doctrine. YOU DID. And then you call me “liberal” after YOU have made me into someone that I am NOT.
I believe that only the Catholic Church has the Christ-given authority to change liturgy and doctrine.
Yes, I think culture should influence the “setting” of the Holy Mass. So does Holy Mother Church. According to the Vatican II Documents, the section on Sacred Liturgy, Chapter VI (Sacred Music): “In some places, in mission lands especially, there are people who hae their own musical tradition, and this plays an important part in their religious and social life. For this reason their music should be held in high esteem and should be given a suitable role, not only in forming their religious sense but also in adapting worship to their native genius, as indicated in articles 39 and 40. There in the musical training of missionaries, special care should be taken to ensure that they will be capable of encouraging the tradition music of these people both in the schools and in sacred services, as far as my be practicable.”
One of the “Protestantisms” that I will NEVER leave behind is the conviction that my culture IS a mission field. I may live in the United States of America, but the majority of people in this dear country are as pagan and atheist as the peoples in Africa and Asia. Indeed, Africa is actually more Christian than many of the areas in the United States. The major entertainment centers (LA and NYC) are especially sad, as Jesus Christ is not glorified or recognized as Lord.
The music of these mission fields is NOT chant. If using the “native music” of these “culture” (i.e., rock, jazz, Broadway, etc.) will help to bring these people to a knowledge of Jesus Christ, well, our Church says to DO IT.
As for instruments, here’s what the same Vatican II Document says: “Other instruments may also be used in divine worship, at the discretion and with the consent of the competent territorial authority…provided they are suitable or can be made suitable for sacred use, that they accord with the dignity of the sacred building, and that they truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.”
There’s a LOT of “wiggle room” in that paragraph. It is ultimately up to the bishop, and in OUR diocese, our extremely conservative bishop allows and encourages the use of “other instruments” besides the pipe organ.
Yes, I’ve read the rest of the chapter and recognize that the Church wants to emphasize sacred chant and pipe organ. Our diocese has plenty of pipe organ and chant, although it is becoming more and more difficult to find competent organists.
My statement about chant sounding spooky is MY OPINION and I NEVER said that HMC has it "wrong all these centuries. Again, STOP putting words in my mouth!
I realize that many people think it is beautiful and sacred. I’ve had different experiences with chant than you, and it gives me the colly-wobbles. I am NOT condemning the Church for making this music the “music of the Church.” I’m only stating the way the music makes me feel, just as other state the way rock music makes them feel.
I agree with others–our “feelings” about music shouldn’t be the determining factor as to whether that form of music is appropriate for Mass.
How dare you imply that I am suggesting that chant be replaced with heavy metal rock and link ME with Black Mass!!! It is in the BLACK MASS that I have heard chant! That’s why I find it spooky. The Black Mass is a blasphemy, and I resent having my name linked with it in ANY WAY.
And I never said that ANY music in Holy Mass should be “replaced.”
Different musical “settings” for Mass ARE allowed by the Church, and if my bishop approves a Life Teen setting or a Children’s Mass or a Guitar Mass (all three are done in my city, along with DAILY TLM), then we should accept the authority and wisdom of that bishop.
As for my statement that people who hate their Masses should become Protestant–they already are Protestant.
They are “protesting” something that their bishop and their priest has approved. Yes, we have a “right” to a correct Mass. If the bishop or priest is allowing true abuse, the laiety should ask for correction.
But it seems to me that many of the people on this thread are NOT bringing up “abuse” at all, but their own personal preferences (TLM vs. OF). The OF is not an “abuse.” As for all the other things (altar girls, Eucharistic ministers, communion on the hand, etc.) THESE are allowed at the discretion of the bishop, and to criticize his decisions–well, that’s what PROTESTANTS do right before they split their church.
This thread is getting nowhere.