Has anyone ever switched lay orders?

[struggling4him]

The 3rd orders do indeed have too many meetings. It’s almost as if they are geared to single people only

And many of the ones that I have come across meet on Sundays for community Masses. If they recognize that our first vocation is to our family, I think we need to spend that time bringing our spouses and children to Mass.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The 3rd orders do indeed have too many meetings. It’s almost as if they are geared to single people only

My OCDS group only met once a month and this was the norm for other OCDS groups.

Jim

 

[Benedictine15]

If as an OCDS member you made definitive promises, you may have to be released from the order before you can join the Benedictines or any other order.

If you made vows, you definitely will have to ask to be released from the order.

Let us know how you make out. As an OCDS member, who made vows, but no longer have a group nearby, I have thought about other lay groups myself.

Jim

Dear Jim,

Love your quote, btw

I withdrew December of 2014 which releases me of the obligations of an OCDS member. I did not make vows as of then. If one voluntarily withdraw, one still remain in good standing with the Order and may request to return at some point if God leads one back there. It is up to the Council of that community and one would have to possibly take some refresher formation classes. At least that is what is stated in the most recent statutes.

There will always be part of me that is Carmelite and St. John of the Cross will not cease to hold a special place in my heart as well as wearing the brown scapular.

Bless you and please keep us posted if you feel led to do so.

 

[Benedictine15]

God bless you. I am sure that everything you learned as a Carmelite tertiary will enrich your life as a Benedictine oblate. It really could not be otherwise.

I am blessed by your words today Father. I will keep you in my prayers.

Deo Gratias!

 

[Benedictine15]

Before retiring, I used to teach consecrated life. This aspect of laity being associated with religious families was of great interest to me, academically as well as pastorally.

I was a great proponent of third orders. I think they can play a very important role in the spiritual life. It can be a very delicate balance It has to be such that it is not seen as just a devotional society. On the other hand, if you create too many “hoops to jump through” it can be an impediment to what it is trying to achieve. I pray for those who are involved with the decision making about what is required.

Since oblates promise to live the Rule of Saint Benedict in so far as their state in life permits, such an approach provides a flexibility – one that can change significantly even over the course of one’s life.

God bless you. I am sure that everything you learned as a Carmelite tertiary will enrich your life as a Benedictine oblate. It really could not be otherwise.

I am blessed by your kind words today Father and be assured of my prayers.

Deo Gratias!

 

[Benedictine15]

My OCDS group only met once a month and this was the norm for other OCDS groups.

Jim

Ours also met once a month for Mass. Sometimes, family members would attend the Mass as well.

 

[Bookcat]

I wonder if there is a difference in community life between the TOC and OCDS?

One can read the various Rules/Constitutions of both (the most current) to see the essence of each.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

And many of the ones that I have come across meet on Sundays for community Masses. If they recognize that our first vocation is to our family, I think we need to spend that time bringing our spouses and children to Mass.

True

 

[Bookcat]

Historical Third Orders Secular:

The following Orders have historically had tertiaries / third orders.

The Order of Preachers
The Franciscan Order
The Carmelite Order
The Discalced Carmelite Order
The Order of the Most Holy Trinity and of the Captives
The Order of Our Lady of Mercy
The Order of the Servants of Mary
The Augustinian Order
The Augustinian Recollect Order
The Order of Minims
The Praemonstrian Order

(and they still do)

(Benedictine Oblates being not tertiaries but oblates would be attached to their particular Monasteries…there have also been such as Donates and Conversi of various Orders historically but that is a different subject too).

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Historical Third Orders Secular:

The following Orders have historically had tertiaries / third orders.

The Order of Preachers
The Franciscan Order
The Carmelite Order
The Discalced Carmelite Order

The Order of the Most Holy Trinity and of the Captives
The Order of Our Lady of Mercy
The Order of the Servants of Mary
The Augustinian Order

never heard of these

 

[Benedictine15]

Bookcat…

Very interesting. Thank you for posting. I will have to look some of them up.

I know the Cistercian Monasteries have Lay Associates. One would also be attached to a specific monastery.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Bookcat…

Very interesting. Thank you for posting. I will have to look some of them up.

I know the Cistercian Monasteries have Lay Associates. One would also be attached to a specific monastery.

The Lay Cistercian’s was one I was thinking about.

They meet once a month at the Trappist Monastery where I often go.

Jim

 

[Benedictine15]

The Lay Cistercian’s was one I was thinking about.

They meet once a month at the Trappist Monastery where I often go.

Jim

Lucky you Jim I looked into them as well. None around here. But I am at peace where God has led me.

Do you mind if I ask…since you don’t have an OCDS community near you, are you considered an Extended Member of your previous community? I was just wondering what happens when you move away.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Lucky you Jim I looked into them as well. None around here. But I am at peace where God has led me.

Do you mind if I ask…since you don’t have an OCDS community near you, are you considered an Extended Member of your previous community? I was just wondering what happens when you move away.

Well, my wife is also a professed OCDS member.

However, we didn’t move, our group disbanded after falling below 5 members, which caused the Friars from Boston to stop coming for conferences and Mass. They advised us to disband and join other groups. Two of the remaining members found a community near them, but it was too far for us, My wife, myself and another elderly member, became what is now called inactive members, There use to be an official term called “Isolated,” membership, but OCD ended that status.

My wife and myself still follow the Rule of Life, aka Constitutions and the spirituality of the Discaced Carmelites.

We pray the LOTH’s together and mental prayer, aka contemplative prayer.

I still haven’t felt a strong enough desire to join the Lay Cistercian’s yet, so I haven’t looked into the process. My wife has no desire at all to join another 3rd order or group.

Jim

 

[Benedictine15]

Well, my wife is also a professed OCDS member.

However, we didn’t move, our group disbanded after falling below 5 members, which caused the Friars from Boston to stop coming for conferences and Mass. They advised us to disband and join other groups. Two of the remaining members found a community near them, but it was too far for us, My wife, myself and another elderly member, became what is now called inactive members, There use to be an official term called “Isolated,” membership, but OCD ended that status.

My wife and myself still follow the Rule of Life, aka Constitutions and the spirituality of the Discaced Carmelites.

We pray the LOTH’s together and mental prayer, aka contemplative prayer.

I still haven’t felt a strong enough desire to join the Lay Cistercian’s yet, so I haven’t looked into the process. My wife has no desire at all to join another 3rd order or group.

Jim

That’s a shame Jim. I have always been disappointed that they did away with the isolate status.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

That’s a shame Jim. I have always been disappointed that they did away with the isolate status.

They had to because of poor formation Isolated Members had received.

I thought they could have kept it for already professed members like my wife and myself, but for whatever reason, such was not to be.

We’re OK with it.

We’re retired and live in a quiet rural area at a lake, so we have plenty of prayer time.

Jim

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I am very saddened by what is related in the last several posts and very sorry that this sort of situation arises.

I think the actions taken in these revisions can result in very regrettable circumstances for life professed tertiaries…and potentially cause very distressing situations to arise for persons, after having faithfully lived their commitment for years. Aspects of these revisions have taken the tertiary vocation in a rather poorly considered direction, in my humble opinion, from the perspective of their analog in Religious life. It seems a better provision could be made.

A person who has made life promises as a tertiary and, correspondingly, has had those life promises received should be able to make provision/have provision made for them to live out those promises, according to what is feasible. The bond effected by life promises should be bilateral.

Community is a not insignificant element in the life of a third order…that is understandable; it is a reflection of the reality that community is an essential element in Religious Life. But there are many ways to live community, even as a Religious. Community is not placed above the individual in such a way that, if the community aspect is not possible, the Religious ceases to be a Religious.

Meetings should not be so highly treasured that they exceed the value of the mutual giftedness in the vocation – the tertiary is a gift to the religious family and the Religious family is a gift to the tertiary. One does not say to a family member, “well, we are declaring you inactive because of such and such circumstance” or, worse, “Well, we propose you leave this family and that you go and try to find another family somewhere else”

I mean it happens relative to Religious as well as tertiaries than one can become aware that one is called to do something different. How much poorer would the world be had the Lord not called Mother Teresa to leave the Sisters of Loretto in order to found the Missionaries of Charity?

But abolishing the category of isolated members seems very ill considered, to me. I was unaware of this development. I shall have to have a look around to come up to speed on this topic. Another project to do in retirement.

 

[Benedictine15]

Dear Father,

For not being aware of the situation, your have summarized the situation perfectly!

You have put it all in persective and have spoken of what has been in my heart but could not put into words.

The OCDS has lost MANY excellent, faithful members because of the revision of the isolate status. I would not say so if I had not experienced it firsthand myself.

Thank you for your wisdom.

 

[Bookcat]

never heard of these

The Augustinian Recollects began in the 16th century as a reform movement of the Augustinian Order.

From the website:

The purpose of the Augustinian Recollection is that which is proper to an Order or religious body brought into being in response to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and approved by the authority of the Church. Its members, living in community as brothers, desire to follow and imitate Christ, poor, obedient, and chaste; they search for the truth, serving the Church; they endeavor to achieve perfect charity according to the charism of St. Augustine and in conformity with the spirit of our early legislation, most especially our Forma de Vivir.

The aforementioned charism of St. Augustine is subsumed in the love of God without condition, that unites hearts and souls in the common life of brotherhood and is diffused outward toward all human beings in the hope of winning and uniting all people in Christ within His Church.
The spirit of the primitive legislation is expressed in the Fifth Definition of the Chapter of Toledo: “Since there are or can be among us some brothers so desirous of monastic perfection that they would want to follow a more austere plan of life, and whose legitimate desire is to be furthered so that no obstacles be placed in the path of the work of the Holy Spirit . . . we determine that, in our Province, three or more monasteries for men be set aside or newly founded … in which a stricter form of life may be practiced.”

This was the objective of our founders and it has continued to develop in the vital and evolutionary process of the Order.

The Order of Augustinian Recollects is rightfully a true heir of the religious family founded by St. Augustine. The life, doctrine, and Rule of St. Augustine are the spiritual patrimony of the Order, as are the example of sanctity and self-abnegation for the Kingdom of God that were given throughout the centuries by so many illustrious religious whose lives have given splendor to the great Augustinian family. (Constitutions, Chapter I, Article I)

augustinianrecollects.us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=53&lang=en

 

[Bookcat]

never heard of these

Next one:

The Order of Saint Augustine was founded in 1244 in Italy when several communities of hermits living in the region of Tuscany came together to ask Pope Innocent IV that they be united under one common Rule of life and one Superior General like other Orders that had recently been founded. The Pope gave them the Rule of Saint Augustine and asked representatives of each of their houses, gathered in chapter, to elect a Prior General who would be the sign and principal promoter of their desired unity. Not many years later, as the number of friars grew and the Order became more geographically extensive, other similar groups of hermits, scattered mostly throughout central Italy, were united to them, forming in 1256 what has come to be known as the Grand Union of the Order. The strong eremitical emphasis which characterized the early groups gradually began to give way to a mixed life of contemplation and pastoral ministry as the Church called the Order to form part of the Mendicant Movement and engage in the work of evangelization.

augustinian.org/order/