Has anyone have converted from OC to RC and why, please share your experience

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Bev17243

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Ladies and gentlemen, I would appreciate advice on this matter for at the moment I’m rather torn on what to do. I have became a Christian about 5 years ago and attended my husband’s Evangelical church. In time I became uphappy with many things that were taught there and decided to investigate other options, leading me to Orthodox Church. I attended there and studied EO for the last 6 months(however, I was not a catechumen and wasn’t baptized there yet) and there are some things I was very conflicted about ergo my move into direction of RC. I’m curious if anyone here converted/made move from OC to RC and what were the reasons.
Please do not think that I’m trying to say bad things reg Orthodox folks in general. I just want to share what I, personally, have experienced.
  1. I felt like OC is very much divided along ethnic lines-in my town there are 2 Orthodox churches-Russian and Greek. When I first went to Russian church(I’m originally from Ukraine but I haven’t lived there since I was very young so I’m rather Americanized)I was met with cold suspicion and icy glances. I do not mean to sound dramatic but noone spoke to me, not even say hello, and even though I could tell people looking at me, noone approached me, making me feel totally out of place. When I went to Greek church, where I have been attending liturgy for the last 5 months, everyone was much more welcoming but its crystal clear that it is a Greek church and their activities and groups center around their Greek heritage. Nothing wrong with that in general but if you are not Greek, you may feel a bit out of place like I did. And Russian Orthodox there consider themselves to be in”the true faith” while Greek ones are considered more “liberal” and not as devoute.
  2. I felt like folks that I’ve encountered in OC are very anti-Catholic(at least in my church). I always thought that RC were to be considered our brothers/sisters in Christ but if you listen to our priest, RC is “outside one true church” and they are not really considered practicing “true faith” and are “heretical shism”. When I mentioned to my priest that I didn’t see why that was since RC teachings are the closest to OC, he looked like he swallowed a lemon. I still don’t understand why baptisms outside OC are not considered valid(that’s what I was told by my priest) and it makes no sense to me.
  3. And I guess the biggest reason of all-it seemed like a lot of doctrine is not clearly defined in OC. I was told regarding several things that OC doesn’t really have a position on “whatever”. I also met plenty of folks there who don’t even think there is heaven and hell, and that everyone will be forgiven and will go to heaven. I could go on but I’m wondering if anyone had the same experiences and doubts. I have met some very good and devout Orchodox ladies and gentlemen so please don’t think that I’m trying to smear anything OC, I just wanted to share my experiences.
    God bless
    Bev
 
I’ve always been RC, but I do know from experience and observation that communism in Russia made many people from that region wary of others. Remember, religion was not kindly looked upon by the communist government. I think the suspicion is a left over from that era. As for GO, yes, I would say it is really geared towards the Greek culture. I’ve never known of a non-Greek being part of that religion…except for that guy from “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”…Oh, yes, I do know someone who did convert from RC to GO, but she essentially also became part of the Greek culture, and loved it! 🙂
 
Bev17243 said:
Ladies and gentlemen, I would appreciate advice on this matter for at the moment I’m rather torn on what to do. I have became a Christian about 5 years ago and attended my husband’s Evangelical church. In time I became uphappy with many things that were taught there and decided to investigate other options, leading me to Orthodox Church. I attended there and studied EO for the last 6 months(however, I was not a catechumen and wasn’t baptized there yet) and there are some things I was very conflicted about ergo my move into direction of RC. I’m curious if anyone here converted/made move from OC to RC and what were the reasons.
Please do not think that I’m trying to say bad things reg Orthodox folks in general. I just want to share what I, personally, have experienced.
  1. I felt like OC is very much divided along ethnic lines-in my town there are 2 Orthodox churches-Russian and Greek. When I first went to Russian church(I’m originally from Ukraine but I haven’t lived there since I was very young so I’m rather Americanized)I was met with cold suspicion and icy glances. I do not mean to sound dramatic but noone spoke to me, not even say hello, and even though I could tell people looking at me, noone approached me, making me feel totally out of place. When I went to Greek church, where I have been attending liturgy for the last 5 months, everyone was much more welcoming but its crystal clear that it is a Greek church and their activities and groups center around their Greek heritage. Nothing wrong with that in general but if you are not Greek, you may feel a bit out of place like I did. And Russian Orthodox there consider themselves to be in”the true faith” while Greek ones are considered more “liberal” and not as devoute.
  2. I felt like folks that I’ve encountered in OC are very anti-Catholic(at least in my church). I always thought that RC were to be considered our brothers/sisters in Christ but if you listen to our priest, RC is “outside one true church” and they are not really considered practicing “true faith” and are “heretical shism”. When I mentioned to my priest that I didn’t see why that was since RC teachings are the closest to OC, he looked like he swallowed a lemon. I still don’t understand why baptisms outside OC are not considered valid(that’s what I was told by my priest) and it makes no sense to me.
  3. And I guess the biggest reason of all-it seemed like a lot of doctrine is not clearly defined in OC. I was told regarding several things that OC doesn’t really have a position on “whatever”. I also met plenty of folks there who don’t even think there is heaven and hell, and that everyone will be forgiven and will go to heaven. I could go on but I’m wondering if anyone had the same experiences and doubts. I have met some very good and devout Orchodox ladies and gentlemen so please don’t think that I’m trying to smear anything OC, I just wanted to share my experiences.
    God bless
    Bev
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I can attempt to answer the baptism, based on my ongoing experiences(ROCOR)
My priest has said that it is because the lack the authority to baptize. Also, from what others have commented(warning, the following comments are not from my priest, but a mixture of other comments and a personal view) is that, due to an improper understanding of the Trinity, that the romanists lack t form. I have also read objections, by virtue of sprinkling, lack form in this way to.

If you have the time, this is benefical
Fr. George Dragas
The Manner of Reception of
Roman Catholic Converts
into the Orthodox Church
with Special Reference to the Decisions
of the Synods of 1484 (Constantinople),
1755 (Constantinople), and 1667 (Moscow)
jbburnett.com/resources/dragas_baptism.pdf

Also, on a more personal note, when i am recieved into Holy Orthodoxy(God willing), my priest has said it will be by Baptism, and not merely by Chrismation, as some Orthodox do.

(if i am in error with anything i have said, please correct me for the general benefit and for mine)
 
Have you read Kallistos Ware’s book The Orthodox Church? He covers the schism between East and West in detail and discusses how the Orthodox Church believes that the Catholic Church is the one that broke with them over the filioque and later with papal infallibility. I have no idea why your EO priest is claiming that Catholic baptism is invalid. I know people that were baptized as children and raised Catholic that later converted to the EO Church and they were not “rebaptized” they just were chrismated as part of their conversion because they had not had the sacrament of confirmation in the Catholic Church. As you probably know the EO Church does infant baptism, crismation ( our confirmation) and first Eucharist at the same time.

Before making the decision to be baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church I also seriously looked into the EO Church, specifically Greek Orthodox. I never felt unwelcome at any Divine Liturgy and the parish I was at had good mix of those of Greek heritage and those not. I’m sure it varies from parish to parish and I can’t speak for ROCOR since I never managed to go to one.

One of the things that I felt was missing in the EO is authority. They only recognize the first 7 ecumenical councils and while the patriachates may meet they answer to no one but their own individual groups.
 
Cider said:
… They only recognize the first 7 ecumenical councils and while the patriachates may meet they answer to no one but their own individual groups.
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Well, they do answer to God.
 
Cider said:
Have you read Kallistos Ware’s book The Orthodox Church? He covers the schism between East and West in detail and discusses how the Orthodox Church believes that the Catholic Church is the one that broke with them over the filioque and later with papal infallibility.
I have no idea why your EO priest is claiming that Catholic baptism is invalid. I know people that were baptized as children and raised Catholic that later converted to the EO Church and they were not “rebaptized” they just were chrismated as part of their conversion because they had not had the sacrament of confirmation in the Catholic Church. As you probably know the EO Church does infant baptism, crismation ( our confirmation) and first Eucharist at the same time.

Before making the decision to be baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church I also seriously looked into the EO Church, specifically Greek Orthodox. I never felt unwelcome at any Divine Liturgy and the parish I was at had good mix of those of Greek heritage and those not. I’m sure it varies from parish to parish and I can’t speak for ROCOR since I never managed to go to one.

One of the things that I felt was missing in the EO is authority. They only recognize the first 7 ecumenical councils and while the patriachates may meet they answer to no one but their own individual groups.
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Yes, i have read this book as well as many other books regarding the topic. However, as i was immersing myself more and more into EO i started to feel that everything regarding the schism is not quite as clear cut as EO would like everyone to think-meaning “West split away ergo they are not one true church”
Not to say negative things regarding EO in general as i have great respect for them but attitude in my church that i’ve encountered was"we are the only one true church and everyone else is shismatic". This never sat well with me since i never saw Catholic folks doing the same to EO.
 
Bev17243 said:
Yes, i have read this book as well as many other books regarding the topic. However, as i was immersing myself more and more into EO i started to feel that everything regarding the schism is not quite as clear cut as EO would like everyone to think-meaning “West split away ergo they are not one true church”
Not to say negative things regarding EO in general as i have great respect for them but attitude in my church that i’ve encountered was"we are the only one true church and everyone else is shismatic". This never sat well with me since i never saw Catholic folks doing the same to EO.
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In my experience both the Orthodox and Catholic churches are guilty of a lack of charity when it comes to how they speak about each other’s churches. Generally however modern Catholics seem better in this regard than Orthodox do, but this was not always the case, and I have seen many examples of that, including in these forums. Take for example the following:

“It has always been Catholic teaching that those belonging to the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches, are not members of Christ’s one true Church, since they are cut off from her by schism. The Council of Florence defined infallibly that “Pagans, Jews, heretics and schismatics” are “outside the Catholic Church,” and as such, “can never be partakers of eternal life,” unless “before death” they are joined to the one true Church of Jesus Christ, the Catholic Church.”

cfnews.org/Ortho-convert.htm

Catholic attitudes seem to have changed after the Second Vatican Council and the effort toward reconcilliation with the Orthodox that has been pursued by popes such as Pope John Paul II (holy father, pray for us!). I have not seen this action reciprocated as strongly by the Orthodox unfortunately. This is actually quite a personal matter for me as my fiancee attends liturgy with me (and me with her), and we’ve overheard some parishoners making negative remarks about Catholicism. We once even had a visiting priest go on a tirade about how he prided himself on looking as Orthodox as possible (e.g. beard, cassock) to avoid being mistaken for a Catholic priest. At any rate, I think the Orthodox attitude has to do with a ‘bunker mentality’, being persecuted or in a hostile environment for so long that their focus is on preserving their faith and nationality rather than with reunion.
 
As a practicing EC the idea of the EO comes up from time to time. But I always come back to the fact that the See of Peter was personally established by Christ Himself. The Pope comes from God, regardless of how high or low a petrine view one has. All the Patriarchates are man made institutions not of divine comission from Christ. To leave the Papacy and the Apostolic College founded by Christ for a Patriarchate, which is a man made invention, has never made sense to me.
 
Bev17243 said:
… This never sat well with me since i never saw Catholic folks doing the same to EO.
Click to expand...
…those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

Bull Cantate Domino, Council of Florence by His Holiness Pope Eugene IV 1442AD
 
Hesychios said:
…those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.

Bull Cantate Domino, Council of Florence by His Holiness Pope Eugene IV 1442AD
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I meant-“i don’t see Catholic folks doing this to EO NOW”. I know that was plenty of hostility on both sides in the past so my point was, that i tend to find this kind of attitude unbecoming since i believe there is so much we can learn from each other.
 
smad0142 said:
As a practicing EC the idea of the EO comes up from time to time. But I always come back to the fact that the See of Peter was personally established by Christ Himself. The Pope comes from God, regardless of how high or low a petrine view one has. All the Patriarchates are man made institutions not of divine comission from Christ. To leave the Papacy and the Apostolic College founded by Christ for a Patriarchate, which is a man made invention, has never made sense to me.
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What a bunch of rubbish! Christ established NO See in Rome, using your reasoning why not the See of Antioch? Peter was there before he was in Rome. The Pope comes from God…foolishness! Now I am an Eastern Catholic and as such believe in the importance of being in communion with the See of Rome or else I wouldn’t be Catholic…I’d be Orthodox…but to say Christ established the Papacy and the See of Rome is just mind boggling!:eek:
 
ciero said:
What a bunch of rubbish! Christ established NO See in Rome, using your reasoning why not the See of Antioch? Peter was there before he was in Rome. The Pope comes from God…foolishness! Now I am an Eastern Catholic and as such believe in the importance of being in communion with the See of Rome or else I wouldn’t be Catholic…I’d be Orthodox…but to say Christ established the Papacy and the See of Rome is just mind boggling!:eek:
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i took it to mean that Christ established Peter supremacy, and since Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, he was the first Pop, no? Ergo his statement that Christ established the See of Rome. At least that’s how i understood his statement
 
Bev17243 said:
I meant-“i don’t see Catholic folks doing this to EO NOW”. I know that was plenty of hostility on both sides in the past so my point was, that i tend to find this kind of attitude unbecoming since i believe there is so much we can learn from each other.
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Well, this is not dependent on attitude, it is part of the ordinary Magisterium of the church.

It is formally proclaimed teaching, not an attitude, and it happens to be a major reason why many people are Catholics today. They believe it.
 
How about converting to catholicism. Catholics are in communion with Peter upon whom the church was built

"In this chair in which he himself had sat, Peter in mighty Rome commanded Linus [2nd pope], the first elected, to sit down. After him, Cletus [3rd pope, also known as Anacletus] too accepted the flock of the fold. As his successor, Anacletus was elected by lot. Clement [4th pope] follows him, well-known to apostolic men. After him Evaristus [5th pope] ruled the flock without crime. Alexander [6th pope], sixth in succession, commends the fold to Sixtus [7th pope]. After his illustrious times were completed, he passed it on to Telesphorus [8th pope]. He was excellent, a faithful martyr . . . " (Poem Against the Marcionites 276–284 [A.D. 267]).
-The Poem Against the Marcionites

“You cannot deny that you are aware that In the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas ‘Rock’]—of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner. . . . Recall, then, the origins of your chair, those of you who wish to claim for yourselves the title of holy Church” (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).
-Optatus of Milevus

“If all men throughout the world were such as you most vainly accuse them of having been, what has the chair of the Roman church done to you, in which Peter sat, and in which Anastasius [39th pope] sits today?” (Against the Letters of Petilani 2:118 [A.D. 402]).
-Augustine

“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. … ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).
-Cyprian of Carthage

“They [the Novatian heretics] have not the succession of Peter, who hold not the chair of Peter, which they rend by wicked schism; and this, too, they do, wickedly denying that sins can be forgiven [by the sacrament of confession] even in the Church, whereas it was said to Peter: ‘I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever thou shall loose on earth shall be loosed also in heaven’[Matt. 16:19]” (Penance 1:7:33 [A.D. 388]).
-Ambrose of Milan

“My words are spoken to the successor of the fisherman, to the disciple of the cross. I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (Letter to Pope Damasus I, 15:2 [A.D. 396]).
-Jerome
 
Be careful to read what I am actually writing.

I said See of Peter, not the See of Rome.It really is a very important distinction. It is only since Vatican I that these two positions have been inextricably linked together. Several times valid Popes have no resided in Rome, but they are still the successor to the See of Peter. And if the Papacy is defined as the Role of Head of the Apostolic College then it is not mind boggling.
 
Bev17243,
You have posed several tough questions that are difficult to answer. Unfortunately, I’m not orginally OC but do I know what it feels like to be inside a denomination that feels right but something is off that you can’t identify.

When I was in that position I did several things. I suggest that you start praying about this and seriously bring it to the cross. Ask God to help you and to show you the truth. Ask him to guide you. When you are ready, try attending a Catholic church and see what it feels like. Again when you are ready, contact your local diocese and ask if they can put you into contact with someone who can provide some spiritual direction and answer your questions. It will take a while for answers to come, but if you are prayerful and obedient to the Holy Spirit answers will come when it’s time. They might be obsure but that’s the holy spirit works sometimes.

If you can, try to get away for a silent weekend retreat at a monastery and seriously bring it to the cross. When something feels spiritually off, it might mean that it is either not from God or it might mean God wants you somewhere else. This journey might bring you closer to God. I suggest to be open with your husband and close friends and family so they can pray and support you as you figure this out. Support and prayer is the key.

I hope this helps,
SG
 
NiceMimi said:
I’ve always been RC, but I do know from experience and observation that communism in Russia made many people from that region wary of others. Remember, religion was not kindly looked upon by the communist government. I think the suspicion is a left over from that era. As for GO, yes, I would say it is really geared towards the Greek culture. I’ve never known of a non-Greek being part of that religion…except for that guy from “My Big Fat Greek Wedding”…Oh, yes, I do know someone who did convert from RC to GO, but she essentially also became part of the Greek culture, and loved it! 🙂
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I was chrismated into the Greek Orthodox church, and I have never felt unwelcome there. My particular parish is fortunate though, because the last 2 priests have been very welcoming towards converts. So in my parish you have a lot of Greeks, with converts – but we’re still all like a family regardless of our heritage. I’m of Anglo-Saxon descent so I will never feel completely comfortable around the cultural practices of the Greeks, yet I can take comfort in knowing that I am part of a Church who can trace her lineage back to St. Andrew himself! 🙂 (who happens to be my namesake)
 
Dear sister Bev,
Bev17243 said:
Ladies and gentlemen, I would appreciate advice on this matter for at the moment I’m rather torn on what to do. I have became a Christian about 5 years ago and attended my husband’s Evangelical church. In time I became uphappy with many things that were taught there and decided to investigate other options, leading me to Orthodox Church. I attended there and studied EO for the last 6 months(however, I was not a catechumen and wasn’t baptized there yet) and there are some things I was very conflicted about ergo my move into direction of RC. I’m curious if anyone here converted/made move from OC to RC and what were the reasons.
Please do not think that I’m trying to say bad things reg Orthodox folks in general. I just want to share what I, personally, have experienced.
  1. I felt like OC is very much divided along ethnic lines-in my town there are 2 Orthodox churches-Russian and Greek. When I first went to Russian church(I’m originally from Ukraine but I haven’t lived there since I was very young so I’m rather Americanized)I was met with cold suspicion and icy glances. I do not mean to sound dramatic but noone spoke to me, not even say hello, and even though I could tell people looking at me, noone approached me, making me feel totally out of place. When I went to Greek church, where I have been attending liturgy for the last 5 months, everyone was much more welcoming but its crystal clear that it is a Greek church and their activities and groups center around their Greek heritage. Nothing wrong with that in general but if you are not Greek, you may feel a bit out of place like I did. And Russian Orthodox there consider themselves to be in”the true faith” while Greek ones are considered more “liberal” and not as devoute.
  2. I felt like folks that I’ve encountered in OC are very anti-Catholic(at least in my church). I always thought that RC were to be considered our brothers/sisters in Christ but if you listen to our priest, RC is “outside one true church” and they are not really considered practicing “true faith” and are “heretical shism”. When I mentioned to my priest that I didn’t see why that was since RC teachings are the closest to OC, he looked like he swallowed a lemon. I still don’t understand why baptisms outside OC are not considered valid(that’s what I was told by my priest) and it makes no sense to me.
  3. And I guess the biggest reason of all-it seemed like a lot of doctrine is not clearly defined in OC. I was told regarding several things that OC doesn’t really have a position on “whatever”. I also met plenty of folks there who don’t even think there is heaven and hell, and that everyone will be forgiven and will go to heaven. I could go on but I’m wondering if anyone had the same experiences and doubts. I have met some very good and devout Orchodox ladies and gentlemen so please don’t think that I’m trying to smear anything OC, I just wanted to share my experiences.
    God bless
    Bev
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There are a few old threads like this one in the past, with (name removed by moderator)ut from many who came into the Catholic Chruch from Orthodoxy. Try to do a search. I’ll do the same and see if I come up with anything.

I came into the Catholic Church from Coptic Orthodoxy about six years ago. I come from the Oriental Tradition, not the Eastern Tradition, so my experience may not be what you’re looking for. In any case, here is a link to my testimony:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141

Blessings,
Marduk
 
Marduk,

I read through your experience. Wonderful! I was wondering, do you have an oriental catholic parish that you attend? Have you found most oriental catholic parishes to be hellenized or latinized? Have there been attempts to restore oriental traditions and faith in the community?

What does a parochial weekly lineup look like? Dominical Hours with Sunday Liturgy? Thanks !
 
mardukm said:
Dear sister Bev,

There are a few old threads like this one in the past, with (name removed by moderator)ut from many who came into the Catholic Chruch from Orthodoxy. Try to do a search. I’ll do the same and see if I come up with anything.

I came into the Catholic Church from Coptic Orthodoxy about six years ago. I come from the Oriental Tradition, not the Eastern Tradition, so my experience may not be what you’re looking for. In any case, here is a link to my testimony:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=202141

Blessings,
Marduk
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting the link, Marduk. I found your testimony to be very insightful:)
 
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