Has Anyone Heard/Read This Before

[Cliff_Jumper]

I’ve been listening and reading to atheist “apologists” so I can better learn and refute their arguments. I am aware of many of their arguments, but I just heard one that was off the wall. An atheist organization claimed that 18th century French saints would pour wine on their genitals and the Church would sell this as holy vinegar to women struggling with infertility. I have looked this up an can only find references to cults who would do this.

This was not accepted by the Church was it?

 

[DavidFilmer]

claimed that 18th century French saints would pour wine

One thing that Catholic Saints all have in common is that they’re dead (which kinda makes it hard to pour wine).

Besides this obvious fallacy, the whole story is absurd.

But the atheist doesn’t understand the Church, because even if it were true, it would not matter at all. There are absurd but TRUE things that have happened in the past (the Cadaver Synod being perhaps the most extreme example), but these absurd and shameful episodes do nothing to diminish the Truth of the Church.

So stipulate that the story is true. Then ask, “so what?”

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

One thing that Catholic Saints all have in common is that they’re dead (which kinda makes it hard to pour wine).

Besides this obvious fallacy, the whole story is absurd.

But the atheist doesn’t understand the Church, because even if it were true, it would not matter at all. There are absurd but TRUE things that have happened in the past (the Cadaver Synod being perhaps the most extreme example), but these absurd and shameful episodes do nothing to diminish the Truth of the Church.

So stipulate that the story is true. Then ask, “so what?”

Thank you. So, this is again an instance of even if it did happen it goes against Church teaching and it is therefore, not condoned by the Church.

 

[Rhuarc]

I’ve been listening and reading to atheist “apologists” so I can better learn and refute their arguments. I am aware of many of their arguments, but I just heard one that was off the wall. An atheist organization claimed that 18th century French saints would pour wine on their genitals and the Church would sell this as holy vinegar to women struggling with infertility. I have looked this up an can only find references to cults who would do this.

This was not accepted by the Church was it?

You cannot be alive and be a saint, you become a saint after you have died and been canonized. It would be impossible for them to do this if they were dead. Unless they did this to corpses which I highly doubt. Atheists need to learn what they are talking about lest they make them selves out to be less than informed.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

The reference might have been to this, though I don’t know if the information is true:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Foutin

 

[Dorothy]

Thank you. So, this is again an instance of even if it did happen it goes against Church teaching and it is therefore, not condoned by the Church.

Such nonsense is absolutely not condoned by the Church.

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

This is one of the few atheist claims I have heard that was this shocking in several years.

 

[Gorillaman]

Honestly man, i agree with the guy who says so what?..they can say what they want but at the end of the day the answer is…“and?..”… This is what I love about the church…(not saying this claim is true, how would I know? Ha) …but they’re all trying to make it seem like were all a bunch of ignorant blind mice who are faking, just to get through another day, and that THEY are the true pioneers and geniuses…but the truth is…I know where my church has been. I know what it has been,and yet it exists, it has members that will NEVER leave her. She stands. No matter what…she stands, that is so powerful.

Ps it’s really brave and awesome for you to study what is being said by atheists.

Good hunting.

 

[Gorillaman]

The reference might have been to this, though I don’t know if the information is true:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Foutin

Wow that’s really perverse…so why does he keep the “S-T” before his name? Like why is he still called that?

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

Wow that’s really perverse…so why does he keep the “S-T” before his name? Like why is he still called that?

As far as I can find from my research on this is simply that some people did this with a statue. The saint never did anything like that at all.

 

[Gorillaman]

As far as I can find from my research on this is simply that some people did this with a statue. The saint never did anything like that at all.

But was that his name? What is he a saint of?

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

But was that his name? What is he a saint of?

That is not a real name. It is an amalgamation of Saint Pothinus the bishop of Lyon and the French word foutre (close in meaning to a four letter word that starts with f). This amalgamation formed a pagan saint for fertility worship.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

That is not a real name. It is an amalgamation of Saint Pothinus the bishop of Lyon and the French word foutre (close in meaning to a four letter word that starts with f). This amalgamation formed a pagan saint for fertility worship.

Right. I assume that if a modern serious Catholic wanted to speak about him, he would be refered to as St. Pothinus.

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

Right. I assume that if a modern serious Catholic wanted to speak about him, he would be refered to as St. Pothinus.

The website www.catholic.org describes this similar amalgamation of St. Pothinus and a word.

 

[JonathonofOhio]

So let me get this straight:

“Some people poured wine on their genitals that may or may not have been associated with the Catholic Church, therefore, there is no god.”

How is that info even relevant to an “apologist”? Has anyone used the pouring of wine on genitals to refute atheism? …perhaps whoever is giving out this info and calling themselves an apologist should first familiarize themselves with the definition of the word.

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

So let me get this straight:

“Some people poured wine on their genitals that may or may not have been associated with the Catholic Church, therefore, there is no god.”

How is that info even relevant to an “apologist”? Has anyone used the pouring of wine on genitals to refute atheism? …perhaps whoever is giving out this info and calling themselves an apologist should first familiarize themselves with the definition of the word.

The context I heard this in was regards to the typical, “OH the evils of the Catholic Church…”

 

[Mintaka]

Apparently one Hodder M. Westropp has been the source of both legends. The holy vinegar thing came from pouring wine over a statue that was “curious”, as they say in the old book catalogs.

If this stuff is true, it says in Mr. Westropp’s book that the Church didn’t approve of it and was exasperated with it, and kept trying to teach people better. The only question is whether people were doing it more as an occult practice, or more as a persistent joke.

Wikipedia doesn’t seem to name its sources as well as Hodder M. Westropp. And you’ll notice there’s no French version of the article, so obviously it’s not a hot topic in contemporary France.