Has anyone read St. Faustina's vision of hell?

[mslizzie]

It is pretty scary after reading her vision. She mentioned something like “one’s condition will never change when in hell”. Can anyone explain to me what this meant? Is it a literal place with fire?

Other people’s visions of hell are not so convincing, For instance, Mary Baxter and Bill Weize. I just don’t think it is possible that they were taken there by God and was given a tour.

What does everyone here think?

 

[PhilotheaZ]

(For other readers, the vision of hell is described in Faustina’s diary, #741, available on this page: saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS15.shtml .)

“One’s condition will never change”: This means that hell is eternal. The sufferings will never end. Once in hell, there is never the possibility of enjoying the presence of God. Never.

As to the nature of hell, the Catechism of the Catholic Church defines hell as

“The state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed, reserved for those who refuse by their own free choice to believe and be converted from sin, even to the end of their lives” (Glossary).

Jesus does speak of hell in terms of fire:

• Matthew 5:22 (“fiery Gehenna”)
• Matthew 13:42, 50 (“the fiery furnace, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth”)
• Matthew 25:41 ("'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels")
• Mark 9:43, 48 ("Gehenna, where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched’ ")

So, is it, as you ask, “a literal place with fire”? It very well could be. But even worse than fire is the eternal separation from God. From the Catechism:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

I’m not familiar with Baxter and Weize, thus will not comment on them. (Private revelations that are not approved by the Church nor part of a saint’s writings are usually not discussed on this forum. It is possible, though, for God to give someone a glimpse of hell. We leave it to the Church to decide whether these revelations are real.)

If we love God, try to do His will, and seek His sacramental forgiveness when we fall, we should not live in unreasonable fear of hell. Faustina spent much more time writing about God’s amazing mercy than about her vision of hell!

 

[reen12]

quote: PhilotheaZ

But even worse than fire is the eternal separation from God. From the Catechism:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

This “description” of hell, offered to us by Christianity, is why I hold that:
Judaic thought more reflects the heart of God.

Judaism offers a description of God - far more merciful - than anything that Christianity can offer.

And, I gotta say: It’s easy - in our comfortable rooms, sitting at our computers, to assert that “flames” -that burn forever - are “less” of a suffering than the loss of God’s presence -
which is sheer, unsupported assertion.

The most excruciating pain imagninable is that of burns.
And human beings rush to bring whatever relief and healing that they can bring, to ease this hideous level of physical suffering.

It was once thought that schizophrenia was “created” by double-messages.
Later, this theory was discarded.

The biggest double message of them all?

God is Love + God is prepared to roast you alive -
for eternity, yet!

Based on this double-message, we can now state:

Human beings are more merciful than God is.

Right.

This is why I turn to the mercy and compassion of the God of Israel.

And this view of “hell” - purportedly given by Christ - is why -
if Christ is quoted correctly - on these 'features" of hell -
then He cannot be God.

reen12

 

[PhilotheaZ]

A response to reen12:

When you “turn to the mercy and compassion of the God of Israel,” you are indeed turning to the mercy and compassion of the God of Christianity. It is the same God. Everything in the Old Testament is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Whether Jesus’ descriptions of hell are literal or figurative (I don’t know for sure, and I hope I never experience it firsthand), the one, true, Trinitarian God is indeed merciful. Perhaps the reason Jesus gives us such vivid descriptions of hell is that He is so merciful and wants us to avoid going there! (What good parent would not sternly warn his children against danger?) God wants all of us to be saved. Indeed, He Himself became a man and suffered a cruel death to obtain pardon for our sins so that we might have eternal life with Him! He, the innocent one, humbled Himself and shared our humanity and death so that we, the sinful ones, might share in His eternal life. I urge you to read the description of Jesus’ death in the Gospels, and gaze at a crucifix, and open yourself up to this evidence that God is indeed merciful.

If we are eternally damned, it is something we freely choose, by persistent rejection of God that lasts until our death. God gives us many opportunities to repent of our sinfulness, but He respects our freedom and will not force us to love Him.

Hebrew Scripture (the Old Testament) gives a hint, although incomplete, of God’s justice for those who reject Him. Some examples:

Job 10:21 ff (“Before I go whence I shall not return, to the land of darkness and of gloom, The black, disordered land where darkness is the only light”)

Psalm 6:6 (“For who among the dead remembers you? Who praises you in Sheol?”)

Psalm 88:13 (“Are your marvels declared in the darkness, your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion?”)

Isaiah 38:18 (“For it is not the nether world that gives you thanks, nor death that praises you; Neither do those who go down into the pit await your kindness.”)

I urge you to read this address vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_28071999_en.html by the late Pope John Paul II. It reconciles the ideas of God’s justice and His mercy. In it Pope John Paul says the following:

“Eternal damnation”, therefore, is not attributed to God’s initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God’s judgement ratifies this state.

I see from your profile that you describe your religion as “working on it.” I urge you to continue to do so. Pray to God for His light. I hope and pray that your journey will lead you to the Church where you will find not what seems most “comfortable” to you, but the Truth, which is not a thing or an idea, but a Person — Jesus Christ Himself, who said: “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.”

God bless you!