Has anyone read the book: The Poem of the Man-God?

[Eliza10]

I picked out a couple of my favorites from the link Jim gave, if anyone wants to read them and comment on them.

I picked out two of my favoirites because all of the writings are rich, but many of them refer to other persons or events, so that you have to read other parts to get the whole story, and these an pretty much stand alone.

You really can’t skim the stories either, and once you begin to read them, you don’t want to skim them anyway. These two are two of the “gems” that stick in my mind. (Some of my very favorites though are not among the 20% of the work you can find on the publisher’s site).

The first is Jesus addressing slaves on a galley ship. I love this story so deeply. We read about the horrors of the slave trade. If you think The Poem is a work of fiction, you can still read this story, and say: this is exactly how Jeusus would have spoken to those poor pagan slaves - just like this. And* its an uplifting “story” for your imagination,* even if you don’t think it inspired:

Jesus speaking to the Galley Slaves:
(You have to scroll down the page, which starts at story 151, to story 154): valtorta.org/BookText/E02_151-160.htm

Also here is the story, true to Scripture, but more fleshed out, of where:

Jesus meets the Samaritan woman at the well:
(You have to scroll down to number 143, whereas this page begins at stroy 141); valtorta.org/BookText/E02_141-150.htm

I enjoy continuing reading how Jesus preaches to the Samaritans aferthat, and when thye leave, and particularly on the road he heals the woman of Sychar, and his ensuing discussion with his Apostles - because talking with his apostles their personalities realy come alive (story 153 is a great example of conversations which shows the personality of the disciples) . But thats a lot of extra reading - maybe too much for someone who only wants to see what the fuss is about.

I can see how someone reading these excerpts would still be reluctant to thinking these works are true. Thats up to you. I think they are true. When I first heard the truths of the Catholic Chruch, I thought they were amazing, but I didn’t just believe right away, either.

And if one never believes this work inspired, it doesn’t matter, because we have Our Chruch to instruct us in what really matters. She will tell us all we need.

So I don’t refer to these excerpts to tell anyone to believe, but to say, even if you think they are fiction, its really inspiring fiction, isn’t it, and theologically correct! Its like reading really, really great fiction that inspires you to the greater truths of life.

Also anyone who reads the excerpts can truly say: “How can anyone ever call it ‘badly fictionalized’? They must have never read any of it!”

__________________

***If anyone seeks wisdom, let them ask it from their Creator who gives freely and upbraidth not. ***

 

[mirandajb]

On the link that you wrote Fr Mitch Pawca reject the book but he say we could read it if we read the scriptures and go to the holy sacrament etc. in order to have a stronger spiritual life and not to be misleaded.
So he was basically saying that the one that will read it must read it under their own risk.
However people 'd love to read this becuase they d like to ahve an idea of how was the life of Jesus that is not on the bible.
On every word of the book, there are deep life teachings. and its a good book.
If its forbiden then I will read it as fiction. I have no problem with the book. I respect the church and their good will to protect us from misleaded stuffs.

Well said. My devotion to Our Lady increased tremendously after reading the Book. The Passion account was also great and confirmed by medical experts to be very sound.

 

[lvande]

Eliza - thank you for your eloquent post on this issue - I too often ask God to show me if this work is false and come up short - and then am continually blown away by the beauty and awe of our God. Thank you for diligently trying to seek the truth on this matter. It’s very reassuring to know that the books are in Vatcian City.

(Continued)

One safe road to take is to avoid the book altogether. After all, where there is smoke, there is often fire! And, there often is a grain of truth to rumors! Better safe than sorry! After all, the Church has so many approved riches, why risk something tht may mislead??

I do respect that stance. I just begin to lose respect when those same people who don’t even look at the book beome an authority on what everyone should do. They are avoidng it so everyone else should too and if they don’t they are gulity of the sin of diobedience and rebellion!

And it sounds so familiar to me. Becaue I was Evenagelical and I loved Jesus and so did my fellow believer-friends, and I had the Bible: Gods word! Wht else does one need! Apparently nothing!

I would never be Catholic. Clearly, the Catholic Church was shrouded in “smoke”. The fire of hell had to be there for those people who did not accept the Lord as we beleivers did. So many reliable sources said the Catholic beliefs were very bad! Who had time to examine for themselves, and who needed to waste such time when holy, reliable, learned people said it was bad! Why not be safe and avoid it altlogether. There were so many more important truths of God to understand, and grapple with, why bother with that smoke-shrouded religion of man, that all the experts said was not of Jesus?

But I knew my Shepherd’s voice, and he led me to the Catholic Church, wher I thought I would never go. I asked the Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth, and I followed Him, and I had to confront the “smoke” that I previously wanted to flee from in safety. Then I could not deny the truth he showed me, even though the cost.

The same thing happened with the Poem. I picked it up to read on reccommendation. I heard my Shepherd’s voice. I knew it was from Jesus. When later I heard the loud voices of detractors, I searched my Chruch for the truth she offers so abundantly. If this was bad, she would show me! She had shown me why each of my Protestant misbeliefs were wrong. But nowhere, did any Catholic, lay or not, show how any of what I read in Poem-of-the Man-God was not true. Nothing could be found! I would be glad to be shown, but I do not beleive it exists.

 

[JimG]

It’s been some time ago; but I did read the first half of it, and was not particularly impressed. If it’s a novel, then it’s just fiction. If it claims to recount actual events in the life of Jesus which are not recounted in the gospels, then it must be treated as a private revelation. And if it’s a private revelation, I will only trust it if the Church has given its approval.

 

[mirandajb]

Eliza - thank you for your eloquent post on this issue - I too often ask God to show me if this work is false and come up short - and then am continually blown away by the beauty and awe of our God. Thank you for diligently trying to seek the truth on this matter. It’s very reassuring to know that the books are in Vatcian City.

quote=Eliza10;2096653

I do respect that stance. I just begin to lose respect when those same people who don’t even look at the book beome an authority on what everyone should do. They are avoidng it so everyone else should too and if they don’t they are gulity of the sin of diobedience and rebellion!

And it sounds so familiar to me. Becaue I was Evenagelical and I loved Jesus and so did my fellow believer-friends, and I had the Bible: Gods word! Wht else does one need! Apparently nothing!

I would never be Catholic. Clearly, the Catholic Church was shrouded in “smoke”. The fire of hell had to be there for those people who did not accept the Lord as we beleivers did. So many reliable sources

said the Catholic beliefs were very bad! Who had time to examine for themselves, and who needed to waste such time when holy, reliable, learned people said it was bad! Why not be safe and avoid it altlogether. There were so many more important truths of God to understand, and grapple with, why bother with that smoke-shrouded religion of man, that all the experts said was not of Jesus?

But I knew my Shepherd’s voice, and he led me to the Catholic Church, wher I thought I would never go. I asked the Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth, and I followed Him, and I had to confront the “smoke” that I previously wanted to flee from in safety. Then I could not deny the truth he showed me, even though the cost.

The same thing happened with the Poem. I picked it up to read on reccommendation. I heard my Shepherd’s voice. I knew it was from Jesus. When later I heard the loud voices of detractors, I searched my Chruch for the truth she offers so abundantly. If this was bad, she would show me! She had shown me why each of my Protestant misbeliefs were wrong. But nowhere, did any Catholic, lay or not, show how any of what I read in Poem-of-the Man-God was not true. Nothing could be found! I would be glad to be shown, but I do not beleive it exists.

Dear Ivande,

The little that I have read has truly brought me closer to Jesus and His ways and thoughts. I believe it is only through God’s grace that one can complete all 5 volumes. I am still struggling in this area.
The fact that you have even heard of the book, when millions out there haven’t a clue to it’s existence, is proof that there is a stirring in your Spirit Man, to investigate further. Please read the following links (without any prejudice or preconceived judgment) and pray the Holy Spirit for guidance and revelation to the Truth. God bless.

valtorta.alphalink.com.au/
mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.2&disp=attd&view=att&th=1131b54828da3d67
mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.3&disp=attd&view=att&th=1131b54828da3d67
[/quote]

 

[Mjae]

Well, I have read the books, my sister has had them for years and re-reads them regularly - she finds them a source of great inspiration. For myself, I can enjoy them as fiction, and they are quite interesting and enjoyable in that aspect.

I am very careful, however, to not take what they contain as gospel, since they are not THE Gospel. There is a lot in them that simply can’t be verified, which is one of the problems I have with them. Her description of the birth of Christ I simply do not find credible. She describes Mary Magdalen as the prostitute who Jesus saved from stoning and also as Martha’ and Lazarus’ sister. I don’t find that anywhere in the gospel so I don’t know if there is a tradition for describing her that way. Can’t think of anything else, it’s years since I read them.

I can see why the books might be listed as ‘bad fiction’ as the writing is sentimental and not overly sophisticated. I suggest any one who chooses to read them to use discernment.

 

[Love4Mary2]

Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy was placed on the Index of Forbidden books at the same time as Maria Valtorta’s Poem. Both condemnations were signed by Pope John XXIII on the same day. It is also relevant to keep in mind that the condemnation for Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy writings were upheld several times, just as Maria Valtorta’s.

When Saint Faustina was Beatified and Canonized, her Divine Mercy writings were then presumed authenticated, although never officially unrestricted by the Holy Office. Currently we base our Divine Mercy Sunday Mass on these writings. Both Faustina’s and Valtorta’s texts were initially condemned by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani. It would have been sooner for Saint Faustina’s writings, but Pope Pius XII refused to sign the condemnation. So Cardinal Ottaviani simply waited until Pope Pius passed away, then persuaded the next Pope, John XXIII sign them as he took Office. When Maria Valtorta’s body was moved to under the altar of The Basilica of the Annunciation in Florence, many believed that this confirmed the numerous rumors of an upcoming Beatification. It is highly likely that when Maria Valtorta is Beatified and Canonized, her writings would follow suit, just as Saint Faustina’s did. The Vatican’s recent decision to allow Archbishop Soosa’s Imprimatur for the Poem (which is now being affixed to the inside cover), is a strong indication that things are moving along quickly.

The unassailable argument is as follows: Pope Pius XII’s Imprimatur of Maria Valtorta’s writings was the first and foremost Church position. It was witnessed by three highly credible Priest, who immediately documented and recorded the event. The Papal Imprimatur was then validated by a Cardinal at the Vatican. The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The buck stops here. Subordinate levels of the Church Hierarchy had no authority (and violated Canon Law), to undermine the Papal Imprimatur.

It may be wise to make an attempt to ascertain the truth before picking up a stone to cast at this Holy Victim Soul. The following are some good links for obtaining additional information:

MariaValtortaWebRing.com/

Best response I’ve seen to Father Mitch Pacwa:
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/001_Correspondence.htm

Another great response to Father Mitch Pacwa:
motherofallpeoples.com/index.php/Marian-Private-Revelation/In-Defense-of-The-Poem-of-the-Man-God.html

Best response I’ve seen to F. John Loughnan.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/002_Correspondence.htm

Best response I’ve seen to a Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich Theologian.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/003_Correspondence.htm

 

[LilyM]

Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy was placed on the Index of Forbidden books at the same time as Maria Valtorta’s Poem. Both condemnations were signed by Pope John XXIII on the same day. It is also relevant to keep in mind that the condemnation for Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy writings were upheld several times, just as Maria Valtorta’s.

When Saint Faustina was Beatified and Canonized, her Divine Mercy writings were then presumed authenticated, although never officially unrestricted by the Holy Office. Currently we base our Divine Mercy Sunday Mass on these writings. Both Faustina’s and Valtorta’s texts were initially condemned by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani. It would have been sooner for Saint Faustina’s writings, but Pope Pius XII refused to sign the condemnation. So Cardinal Ottaviani simply waited until Pope Pius passed away, then persuaded the next Pope, John XXIII sign them as he took Office. When Maria Valtorta’s body was moved to under the altar of The Basilica of the Annunciation in Florence, many believed that this confirmed the numerous rumors of an upcoming Beatification. It is highly likely that when Maria Valtorta is Beatified and Canonized, her writings would follow suit, just as Saint Faustina’s did. The Vatican’s recent decision to allow Archbishop Soosa’s Imprimatur for the Poem (which is now being affixed to the inside cover), is a strong indication that things are moving along quickly.

The unassailable argument is as follows: Pope Pius XII’s Imprimatur of Maria Valtorta’s writings was the first and foremost Church position. It was witnessed by three highly credible Priest, who immediately documented and recorded the event. The Papal Imprimatur was then validated by a Cardinal at the Vatican. The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The buck stops here. Subordinate levels of the Church Hierarchy had no authority (and violated Canon Law), to undermine the Papal Imprimatur.

It may be wise to make an attempt to ascertain the truth before picking up a stone to cast at this Holy Victim Soul. The following are some good links for obtaining additional information:

MariaValtortaWebRing.com/

Best response I’ve seen to Father Mitch Pacwa:
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/001_Correspondence.htm

Another great response to Father Mitch Pacwa:
motherofallpeoples.com/index.php/Marian-Private-Revelation/In-Defense-of-The-Poem-of-the-Man-God.html

Best response I’ve seen to F. John Loughnan.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/002_Correspondence.htm

Best response I’ve seen to a Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich Theologian.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/003_Correspondence.htm

This is what I’ve said in the other thread that you’ve posted - if Maria Valtorta is canonised then I’ll happily read the works.

Until then, as a matter of Church discipline and the obedience to which I am bound as a faithful daughter of the Church, I refuse to read what Holy Mother has disapproved.

And even St Faustina would approve of my attitude, I am sure - she was similarly obedient to her superiors even when they were probably plain wrong about her and her visions. You think she’d approve of yours? Doubtful.

 

[Love4Mary2]

Sure Saint Faustina would approve of my mine, I never doubted Pope Pius XII Imprimatur. Well there is no need to worry any longer, it now sports the Imprimatur of an Archbishop, which was recently upheld by the Vatican. Some Vatican sources feel that Maria Valtorta could be Beatified within 2 years, so you may be able to benefit from her writings relatively soon. Obviously the Index cannot maintain it’s moral force, because Saint Faustina’s writings are now commonly referred to at Divine Mercy Sunday Mass. If the Index retained its moral force, that would not be possible. Galileo’s writings were also condemned, because the Church believed that the world was flat and the entire Universe orbited around the Earth. The Church was about to burn Galileo alive, like Saint Joan of Arc. I would imagine that you believe that the world is round and orbiting the Sun? Positions change.

 

[LilyM]

Sure Saint Faustina would approve of my mine, I never doubted Pope Pius XII Imprimatur. Well there is no need to worry any longer, it now sports the Imprimatur of an Archbishop, which was recently upheld by the Vatican. Some Vatican sources feel that Maria Valtorta could be Beatified within 2 years, so you may be able to benefit from her writings relatively soon. Obviously the Index cannot maintain it’s moral force, because Saint Faustina’s writings are now commonly referred to at Divine Mercy Sunday Mass. If the Index retained its moral force, that would not be possible. Galileo’s writings were also condemned, because the Church believed that the world was flat and the entire Universe orbited around the Earth. The Church was about to burn Galileo alive, like Saint Joan of Arc. I would imagine that you believe that the world is round and orbiting the Sun? Positions change.

Your sources regarding the Imprimatur and its upholding by the Vatican please?

You know what I meant. The Magisterium of course has the right to change its collective mind about any individual work or works on the Index. Just as it does about the form of the Mass, for example.

Those works that are placed on it become off-limits to us when this happens. And those that remain on it without Magisterial endorsement to the contrary remain off-limits to us. And I’m sure St Faustina knew all this, so no she would NOT approve of you ignoring Blessed John XXIII’s pronouncement against it in any circumstances.

As for beatification - St Thomas Aquinas is a Doctor of the Church as well as a Saint, does that mean that we are free to believe him and those of the other Doctors who argued against the Immaculate Conception? So even that in itself is not a wholesale endorsement of her writings.

Let’s look at apparitions then - even some of the La Salette visions are unapproved, I believe the later ones, although the earlier ones are approved. So things aren’t quite as black-and-white as you would wish for.

 

[jimmy85]

Sure Saint Faustina would approve of my mine, I never doubted Pope Pius XII Imprimatur. Well there is no need to worry any longer, it now sports the Imprimatur of an Archbishop, which was recently upheld by the Vatican. Some Vatican sources feel that Maria Valtorta could be Beatified within 2 years, so you may be able to benefit from her writings relatively soon. Obviously the Index cannot maintain it’s moral force, because Saint Faustina’s writings are now commonly referred to at Divine Mercy Sunday Mass. If the Index retained its moral force, that would not be possible. Galileo’s writings were also condemned, because the Church believed that the world was flat and the entire Universe orbited around the Earth. The Church was about to burn Galileo alive, like Saint Joan of Arc. I would imagine that you believe that the world is round and orbiting the Sun? Positions change.

I agree with you, btw Galileo was persecuted mainly becuase he quoted the bible his own way, where it says that the sun stopped for sometime in the OT, just to prove his theory.

so that was considered an heresy for the mentality of that time, and he was persecuted mainly because of that.

 

[blessedstar]

Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy was placed on the Index of Forbidden books at the same time as Maria Valtorta’s Poem. Both condemnations were signed by Pope John XXIII on the same day. It is also relevant to keep in mind that the condemnation for Saint Faustina’s Divine Mercy writings were upheld several times, just as Maria Valtorta’s.

When Saint Faustina was Beatified and Canonized, her Divine Mercy writings were then presumed authenticated, although never officially unrestricted by the Holy Office. Currently we base our Divine Mercy Sunday Mass on these writings. Both Faustina’s and Valtorta’s texts were initially condemned by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani. It would have been sooner for Saint Faustina’s writings, but Pope Pius XII refused to sign the condemnation. So Cardinal Ottaviani simply waited until Pope Pius passed away, then persuaded the next Pope, John XXIII sign them as he took Office. When Maria Valtorta’s body was moved to under the altar of The Basilica of the Annunciation in Florence, many believed that this confirmed the numerous rumors of an upcoming Beatification. It is highly likely that when Maria Valtorta is Beatified and Canonized, her writings would follow suit, just as Saint Faustina’s did. The Vatican’s recent decision to allow Archbishop Soosa’s Imprimatur for the Poem (which is now being affixed to the inside cover), is a strong indication that things are moving along quickly.

The unassailable argument is as follows: Pope Pius XII’s Imprimatur of Maria Valtorta’s writings was the first and foremost Church position. It was witnessed by three highly credible Priest, who immediately documented and recorded the event. The Papal Imprimatur was then validated by a Cardinal at the Vatican. The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The buck stops here. Subordinate levels of the Church Hierarchy had no authority (and violated Canon Law), to undermine the Papal Imprimatur.

It may be wise to make an attempt to ascertain the truth before picking up a stone to cast at this Holy Victim Soul. The following are some good links for obtaining additional information:

MariaValtortaWebRing.com/

Best response I’ve seen to Father Mitch Pacwa:
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/001_Correspondence.htm

Another great response to Father Mitch Pacwa:
motherofallpeoples.com/index.php/Marian-Private-Revelation/In-Defense-of-The-Poem-of-the-Man-God.html

Best response I’ve seen to F. John Loughnan.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/002_Correspondence.htm

Best response I’ve seen to a Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich Theologian.
mariavaltortawebring.com/Pages/003_Correspondence.htm

Beautiful.

I would and have read it and I would keep my wits about me and disgard nothing but be open to the work of the Spirit and wait for the Church to decide.

Personally I have read these large volumes and I see nothing untoward, but I am simple and not learned. So I have taken what is good and wait for the Church.

No need for no big stink, just keep your head about you. If you don’t get anything from it, then disgard it, if you do, then treasure it. If you believe and it is true then praise to God and if you believe and it is not true then praise to God because nothing is ever lost as God does as He wills in all things.

In the Living Prayer fo my life.

 

[Love4Mary2]

The Imprimatur is from Archbishop Soosa Pakiam M. of Trivandrum. Saint Faustina was mentioned to attest and verify that the moral force argument of the Index is unsound.

Regarding Galileo: “Father Tommaso Caccini (1574–1648) denounced Galileo’s opinions on the motion of the Earth, judging them dangerous and close to heresy. Galileo went to Rome to defend himself against these accusations, but, in 1616, Cardinal Roberto Bellarmino personally handed Galileo an admonition enjoining him neither to advocate nor teach Copernican astronomy. During 1621 and 1622 Galileo wrote his first book, The Assayer (Il Saggiatore), which was approved and published in 1623. In 1630, he returned to Rome to apply for a license to print the Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in Florence in 1632. In October of that year, however, he was ordered to appear before the Holy Office in Rome.

• Galileo was required to recant his heliocentric ideas; the idea that the Sun is stationary was condemned as "formally heretical
• He was ordered imprisoned; the sentence was later commuted to house arrest.
• His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.”

Anyhow, the Index was abolished by Pope Paul VI, who was a Valtorta supporter. In 1966, Pope Paul VI took the action of suppressing the Index of Forbidden Books, which liberated the Poem from ecclesiastical restriction. He endorsed “The Virgin Mary in the Writings of Maria Valtorta” by Father Gabriel Roschini. His endorsement letter is posted in the inside cover in the original Italian and with an English translation, complete with Vatican Insignia. Moreover, when Pope Paul VI was Archbishop of Milan, after evaluating Maria Valtorta’s writings, ordered her entire works to be sent to the Milan Seminary library. Pope Paul VI accomplished three significant actions to remove barriers and promulgate the Poem.

 

[Laura_B]

To answer the question in the title of the thread – yes, I did read part of them several years ago. I think I only made it through the second of the five books (or maybe into the third). At that time in my spiritual life, I didn’t feel like I got much out of them. While I didn’t come across anything that was against the Catholic faith (it would have had to have been blatant for me to catch it), I didn’t find them especially inspiring either. During the parts I read that dealt with Jesus’ ministry, I seemed to lose track of various characters (“who was that guy again?” etc).
The only part that I read that really struck me as inappropriate was the description of the Blessed Virgin Mary after her birth. As I recall, someone (St. Joachim?) takes her outside to show the others and her blankets are unwrapped and her naked form is described in detail, then rewrapped and (I paraphrase here) and basically never seen again. That episode rather “creeped me out”.
On the other hand, some very devout women I know loved the books, especially the fifth (and last) volume dealing with the Passion. I rather wish I had read it but lost interest in the previous volumes. I’m told the Passion account is guaranteed to bring one to tears.
At about the time I was struggling to read the rest of the books, I heard about the controversy and that the books had been placed in the Index. At the time, I felt (like others do) that if the books had been on the Index they were probably best avoided, even though the Index is not in place. I also agree that I have too much other known “good stuff” to read than to risk my soul with something that is questionable. I did not read until this morning on this thread about Ms. Valtorta’s possible beatification.
Whether I would read them now, I don’t know. Probably not. “So many books, so little time.”

 

[Grace_Angel]

Well, I have read the books, my sister has had them for years and re-reads them regularly - she finds them a source of great inspiration. For myself, I can enjoy them as fiction, and they are quite interesting and enjoyable in that aspect.

I am very careful, however, to not take what they contain as gospel, since they are not THE Gospel. There is a lot in them that simply can’t be verified, which is one of the problems I have with them. Her description of the birth of Christ I simply do not find credible. She describes Mary Magdalen as the prostitute who Jesus saved from stoning and also as Martha’ and Lazarus’ sister. I don’t find that anywhere in the gospel so I don’t know if there is a tradition for describing her that way. Can’t think of anything else, it’s years since I read them.

I can see why the books might be listed as ‘bad fiction’ as the writing is sentimental and not overly sophisticated. I suggest any one who chooses to read them to use discernment.

Yes I have read two of the five issues of the Poem and whilst I didnt find anything contrary to cAtholic faith and I do not b elieve it would damage anyones faith, I found that I couldnt get into it.
I dont know if the reason was because I couldnt make out it it was true or fiction and as it is reputedly true I found it difficult. However, I have friends who absolutely love the work and read it and belong to Maria Valtorta readers club etc. I wished many times I could “get” into it but I couldnt. I think I am too much a pragmatist.
GraceAngel.

 

[Love4Mary2]

In answer to the posting by yinekka, from the parallel thread just closed by Moderator Patrick Eastin, (for being a parallel thread), Father Mitch Pacwa discloses in his research that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger actually only reiterated (simply upheld), the rejection by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani.

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/VALTORTA.TXT

This would be expected, as Cardinal Ratzinger succeeded Cardinal Ottaviani in heading the Holy Office. He refrained from second guessing his predecessor, who personally groomed him for Heading the Holy Office. As we see, the quote from the letter to Cardinal Siri mirrors Cardinal Ottaviani’s words. This “mountain of childishness” statement is very important, Valtorta supporters kind of look at it as a gift, in that it is so easy to disprove. Notwithstanding that it verifies its originator was entirely unfamiliar with the text of the Poem.

Maria Valtorta keeps perfect track of Jesus, Mary and over 500 additional personalities. None of which are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Jesus is appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Jesus traverses the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists.

The 10,000 pages of Divine Revelation were given by our Lord in completely random succession. Maria records the visions in simple bound school note books, with no corrections, in the random order as they were given. On the surface, the complete work appeared as a well shuffled deck of cards. Towards the end, Jesus provides the proper sequence, the key, which could not be realized until the mammoth task of typing the manuscript was completed, allowing the individual pages to be sequenced in the specified succession. When finally placed in the correct progression, the puzzle materializes into a seamless perfect flowing chronology.

Geologist and Mineralogist Dr. Vittorio Tredici points out how Maria Valtorta described and correctly named several towns and villages that were not even discovered until after her death. David J. Webster posted a landmark 31 page article that fundamentally proves the authenticity of Maria Valtorta’s writings. The “Poem of the Man-God” may be the very first Private Revelation ever to be scientifically proven genuine. David meticulously and methodically examines Maria Valtorta’s strikingly accurate descriptions of first Century Palestine for every piece of topographical evidence. He then compares this evidence with currently known facts that are only now being proven authentic. “Over thirty percent or 79 (all entries marked with * and ) of the 255 geographical sites in Palestine mentioned in the Poem were not listed in the 1939 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) Atlas. 62 (all) of these 79 were not even listed in the 184 page Macmillan Bible Atlas (MBA) published in 1968. [Maria Valtorta died in 1961] Where did Maria Valtorta get all these names? For a first century eye-witness to include so many obscure and unknown names would, of course, be expected. And most surprising is that these names, obscure and unknown in the 1940’s, are only now being proven authentic. 52 of these 62 have no biblical reference whatever, and 17 of these with no biblical reference have been either indirectly confirmed as authentic by recent “ancient external sources” found in the Macmillan Bible Atlas (1968) or actually listed in the HarperCollins Atlas of the Bible (1989). This makes a total of 29 confirmations since the 1939 ISBE atlas listing. Also among those 62 sites are mentioned the ruins of 6 ancient Palestinian cities some corresponding to the modern consensus on location. In addition, Valtorta’s precise descriptions of the natural topography of Palestine from numerous locations and the information about the outside pagan world of that day, including people, places, customs, Greek and Roman mythology, related in the conversations of that day, are strikingly correct.”

Blessed Gabriel Allegra was the only Scripture Scholar Beatified by Pope John Paul II. His Eminence was well aware that Father Gabriel Allegra was most noted for being an outspoken supporter of Maria Valtorta’s writings. Quite possibly another indirect Papal endorsement of Pope John Paul II. Please take the time to read the links below to Blessed Gabriel Allegra’s Critique of Maria Valtorta’s works. These authoritative endorsements by a Beatified Scripture Scholar cannot be easily disregarded.

bardstown.com/~brchrys/Gablegra/Alegintr.html

 

[LilyM]

Blessed Gabriel Allegra was the only Scripture Scholar Beatified by Pope John Paul II. His Eminence was well aware that Father Gabriel Allegra was most noted for being an outspoken supporter of Maria Valtorta’s writings. Quite possibly another indirect Papal endorsement of Pope John Paul II. Please take the time to read the links below to Blessed Gabriel Allegra’s Critique of Maria Valtorta’s works. These authoritative endorsements by a Beatified Scripture Scholar cannot be easily disregarded.

bardstown.com/~brchrys/Gablegra/Alegintr.html

The devil could just as easily reveal such information to Maria Valtorta as Christ - after all Satan knows all these things too, no? And can disguise himself even as an angel of light? Or as the Virgin Mary or Christ, as he has done in numberless false apparitions?

If you’re going to refer to His HOLINESS the late John Paul II, at least do him the courtesy of getting his title correct.

Certainly he beatified Allegra, but did he approve or endorse Valtorta’s books by doing so? Of course not, no more than Thomas Aquinas’ writings disputing the Immaculate Conception were endorsed by HIS canonisation and declaration as a Doctor of the Church. They were simply wrong, St Thomas’ lofty status and obvious holiness notwithstanding.

In fact did JP2 ever even mention Valtorta’s books publicly? Not that I know of.

And as long as the books have been placed on the Index and no subsequent Pope has endorsed them as such, they remain on the list and are exactly as dangerous, morally speaking, as they were when the list was in force.

An Imprimatur by a local bishop is a local determination, based on that bishop’s opinion alone and the opinion of his diocese’s censor or censors, he doesn’t speak for the whole Church when he gives one.

You think the abolition of the list in any way changes the character of the books that are on it? Absolute madness.

 

[Love4Mary2]

The indisputable evidence, confirmations and verifications prove beyond any doubt that these revelations are of Divine origin, particularly in that Maria Valtorta was bed-ridden. I’m not surprised of allegations that these works could be from the devil. Notwithstanding that the Chief Priests, Pharisees, Scribes and Sadducees alleged that Jesus’ works were of the devil. If Jesus could be accused in this way, it is not surprising that others would accuse this Holy Victim Soul in the same manor.

The difference here is that the late Pope Pius XII studied these writings for ten months before ordering the publishing before the three Priest witnesses, Cardinal Gagnon then verified the validity of the Papal Imprimatur. Since this took place first, and the Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. Pope Pius XII’s discernment is the only acceptable Church position. Any other standpoint tramples upon the Code of Canon Law.

Maria Valtorta’s writings were placed on the Index by the Head of the Holy Office Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, who was purportedly incensed that Holy Office was circumnavigated in the approval process. The Poem was published in 1956 with Pope Pius XII Imprimatur and statement affixed to the inside cover. Cardinal Ottaviani waited, placing the Poem on the Index of Forbidden books would require a Papal signature, which would be impossible to obtain. Pope Pius XII would certainly not sign a decree against His own Imprimatur, and the three Priests were well aware of this. As long as Pope Pius XII was alive, the Poem could be published with the Papal Imprimatur, unchallenged. The Holy Office waited four years. Pope Pius XII past away on October 9, 1958. As soon as the next Pontiff, Pope John XXIII, took office, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani’s first action was to have Maria Valtorta’s and Sister Maria Faustina Kowalska’s writings formally condemned on the Index of Forbidden Books, (Pope Pius XII would not sign the condemnation of Sister Faustina’s writings). His condemnation decrees were submitted before the new Pope just taking Office for signing.

I reasoned that the Beatification of Blessed Gabriel Allegra is quite possibly another indirect Papal endorsement of Pope John Paul II, because Blessed Allegra is most renowned for the propagation of Maria’s writings.

 

[yinekka]

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tinyurl.com/34excx

*A Still Small Voice: Practical Guide on Reported Revelations ***Benedict J Groeschel **
Page 58

**Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger **writing of the poem in a letter to Cardinal Siri, Archbishop of Genoa, on January 31 1985 said the following:

“A decision against distributing and recommending a work which has not been lightly condemned may be reversed but only after profound changes that neutralise the harm which such publications could bring forth among the ordinary faithful.”

“The Poem of the Man God has already been] examined scientifically and placed in a well known category of mental sicknesses…The facts added to the second edition do not change the nature of the work, which evidences being a mountain of childishness, of fantasies and of exegetical falsehoods, diluted in a subtly sensual atmosphere, through the presence of a group of women in the company of Jesus. On the whole, it is a heap of pseudo-religiosity. Therefore, also for the second edition, the judgement of the Church to condemn it retains its validity.”

 

[Love4Mary2]

Hello yinekka, I see that you found the parallel thread was closed and moved here. Your posting appears to be identical to the your last entry on the closed thread. I replied to it on this thread, please refer to posting 56, which should be four postings above this one.