Has/Can Pope Francis address the FALSE teachings of Liberal/Progressive "Churches"?

[EasterJoy]

I am protestant, but isn’t the rise and popularity of these DANGEROUS “Christian” churches important enough to speak on?
Is he allowed to speak both on the heresy from Protestant and Catholic churches or only Catholic churches? Shouldn’t he take this as a grave matter and speak on both anyway?
If not him then more pastors and christian organizations need to publicly speak out and denounce the heresy of these churches.

The rise of Left-leaning “Christianity” is advocating things like:

**–Jesus Christ is NOT the only way
–Jesus Christ was NOT God in the flesh
–Denial of the trinity
–The Bible is full of errors and contradictions and is NOT from God
–Homosexual sex is not a sin
–All Religions lead to salvation
–Pornography is not a sin
–Pre marital sex is not a sin
–Abortion is not killing a life/sin
–Promotion of radical Feminism
–Promotion of Transgenderism
–Demanding that the church change in order to maintain popularity
**

This madness is leading many people astray. I apologize for coming across as angry and “self righteous” but this is a serious issue and is a matter of life and death. I especially fear for other young people in the millennial generation. As most of us should know, there has been media reports on young people abandoning the church and an increasingly "non religious’ population. Older folks too, but so many young people are seeking to conform with the world and want to hear a radical hippie version of Christ who never spoke against immorality. They want folks to pat them on the back and rationalize the wrong things that they do. As a young conservative, this insanity is depressing.

He speaks the truth, he points out falsehoods, he constantly reiterates what the Church teaches in plain terms, but he does not point fingers and say, “HEY, YOU!! I AM TALKING TO YOU!!” He speaks to those who are listening and those in the Church who are his duty to correct directly, but he leaves those who are outside the Church and not listening to God to take care of. If the Protestants hear him and hear the truth he is speaking, that is good. If they don’t, we can remember that Christ did not chase the young man who went away sad, nor did he tell his Apostles to chase those who would not listen when they were preaching the Good News from town to town.

Conservatives are fighting the Pope on care of the environment. They are fighting him over the duty of those who have capital to give workers the priority over capital as the more important of the two elements of capitalism. (To be fair, some are only concerned that he clarify that capitalism is not itself the problem, but abuses of capitalism by greedy persons seeking to take unfair advantage by their control over either capital or labor.) Some conservatives are not wild about his warnings against materialism, either.

The narrow road is hard to find partly because steering as hard as you can to the right or the left will not find it for you. We have to be very careful if we are “liberal” to not congratulate ourselves that “our side” of the Church has social justice “right” or if we are “conservative” that “our side” of the Church has life issues or orthodoxy “right.” One of the best homilies I ever heard about abortion reminded the congregation that while few of those listening would ever contemplate abortion nearly everyone would be put in the position of making the parish a more welcoming place for a woman who was pregnant with no husband. He reminded us that to be pro-life is to make such a parent feel she would be helped and not left in a hopeless state of overwhelmed poverty if she went to term.

 

[Karen107]

This madness is leading many people astray. I apologize for coming across as angry and “self righteous” but this is a serious issue and is a matter of life and death. I especially fear for other young people in the millennial generation. As most of us should know, there has been media reports on young people abandoning the church and an increasingly "non religious’ population. Older folks too, but so many young people are seeking to conform with the world and want to hear a radical hippie version of Christ who never spoke against immorality. They want folks to pat them on the back and rationalize the wrong things that they do. As a young conservative, this insanity is depressing.

We fear for the salvation of people also. People will take a spin on Jesus Christs teachings and shape it to be what they want it to be rather than what it is. That’s why it is important to speak out on what is right and wrong and this is something that all Christians are responsible for doing, not just the Pope. And I It’s not an easy job when there are so many against Christ teachings in favor of what people personally believe. For example, today it’s much easier to stand up in support of same-sex marriage than in support of Marriage as a Holy Union between a man and a woman. It takes courage friend but we don’t have to be alone. God can help us as courage and strength is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

As for the Pope, he does speak out against false teachings but perhaps you haven’t listened to all he has said.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

gay marriage, and thousands of churches broke away

.

If they don’t formally break ties, many congregants simply vote with their feet. Hence the declining numbers in mainline churches.

Really?? Goodness! I am not Presbyterian, but know how their governance works. First, gay marriage in the US is only 60 days legal. And Presbyterians have only recently had enough votes to change the wording in their Constitution. It won’t take effect until next week. Additionally, any clergy or Presbytery may opt out of performing same sex marriages because of conscience.

See here: pcusa.org/news/2015/3/17/presbyterian-church-us-approves-marriage-amendment/

So, you say that ‘thousands’ of congregations broke away? Hmmm. Given that there are less than 10,000 congregations in the US in total, I think we might have heard if a number that large have broken away from the church structure. I can’t think of one, actually. But I’d be happy to check.

Declining numbers are happening nationwide in most all churches. We all know this. And we all know many of the factors. I don’t think it’s because of liberal stances. My guess is that more people are choosing liberal churches BECAUSE of those stances than leaving. Those who have wanted to break away because of gender issues, politics, etc, have already done so.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

crai7;13135547:

Really?? Goodness! I am not Presbyterian, but know how their governance works. First, gay marriage in the US is only 60 days legal.

Sorry about the calculation. I meant to type 20+ days, not 60. My error.

 

[EasterJoy]

ComplineSanFran;13135852:

Sorry about the calculation. I meant to type 20+ days, not 60. My error.

It has been legal in some jurisdictions for far longer. I think Connecticut made it legal in 2014, which is a full ten years ago now, and Massachusetts in 2008. There has been an Anglican bishop who married his long-time male lover in one of those two states, and they have filed for civil divorce already.

I think you are right that only a few congregations have taken steps to break away over same-sex marriage, which was voted on some time in the last four or five months. There was another exodus over the ordination of non-celibate homosexuals before that, but I think that was in the neighborhood of 150 congregations, if memory serves correctly. I don’t think there have been thousands of congregations leaving over anything. As you note, there aren’t that many congregations to start with.

 

[Thorolfr]

Churches, mainline or otherwise, that abandon the Gospel tend to find their numbers dropping.

As a share of the US population between 2007 and 2014, the number of Catholics dropped only a little bit less quickly than the number of Mainline Protestants. According to a Pew Research Center survey from this last May, the number of Catholics in the US as a share of the US population dropped by 3.1%. The number of Mainline Protestants dropped by 3.4%, or only 0.3% more than Catholics. Evangelical Protestants are dropping at a much slower rate, only 0.9%.

pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

 

[ComplineSanFran]

As a share of the US population between 2007 and 2014, the number of Catholics dropped only a little bit less quickly than the number of Mainline Protestants. According to a Pew Research Center survey from this last May, the number of Catholics in the US as a share of the US population dropped by 3.1%. The number of Mainline Protestants dropped by 3.4%, or only 0.3% more than Catholics. Evangelical Protestants are dropping at a much slower rate, only 0.9%.

pewforum.org/2015/05/12/americas-changing-religious-landscape/

Correct, Thorolfr. There are a number of people writing on this drop. People like Diana Butler Bass. It’s not so much because the Mainlines are going liberal politically (gender issues, sexual issues, etc) but more along the lines of lifestyle and beliefs. It’s the era of spiritual but not religious and the ‘nones.’

If anything, the Roman Catholics are losing people BECAUSE of the gender and sexual issues.

 

[Thorolfr]

Really?? Goodness! I am not Presbyterian, but know how their governance works. First, gay marriage in the US is only 60 days legal. And Presbyterians have only recently had enough votes to change the wording in their Constitution. It won’t take effect until next week. Additionally, any clergy or Presbytery may opt out of performing same sex marriages because of conscience.

It’s also not that easy to leave the Presbyterian Church USA. A big congregation where I live recently left over the issue of homosexuality, but because their own church building like most church property is owned by the denomination, they will now have to buy it from the Presbyterian Church USA.

 

[Thorolfr]

If anything, the Roman Catholics are losing people BECAUSE of the gender and sexual issues.

The Catholic Church in the US would also be declining even faster if many of its parishes were not being replenished by immigrants from Latin America.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

The Catholic Church in the US would also be declining even faster if many of its parishes were not being replenished by immigrants from Latin America.

Does anyone know if there is a census Diocese by Diocese of the ethnic make up? That would be a good indication of how much ‘replenishment’ is going on.

I know in the UK, the numbers of Roman Catholics coming in from Eastern Europe are filling the pews. One of the difficulties, however, is that many immigrants come in for a short period of time to work and save money, and then return to their country of origin. You probably won’t see generations of RC’s continuing to fill the pews this way.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

It’s also not that easy to leave the Presbyterian Church USA. A big congregation where I live recently left over the issue of homosexuality, but because their own church building like most church property is owned by the denomination, they will now have to buy it from the Presbyterian Church USA.

Same in the Episcopal Church. There are cases in the courts now. The ones that have come back with a verdict have been pro-TEC. They own the buildings.

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, He can speak to those issues specifically, as he thinks necessary and beneficial, and has done so in some cases. The CC has already addressed many of them in her teachings, papal encyclicals, etc, so the Catholic positions are no secret.

If Protestant churchpeople choose to read the CCC and encyclicals, they can find guidance for reforming and renewing their own denominations. Of course, many are too anti-Catholic to dip into such literature, but they have that choice. The Catholic Church is still the leader of the Christian world, whether they acknowledge it or not.

 

[EasterJoy]

Same in the Episcopal Church. There are cases in the courts now. The ones that have come back with a verdict have been pro-TEC. They own the buildings.

Yes, and that is if the denomination wants to sell the buildings.

 

[outremer]

He could address it, but he probably won’t. Such actions fly in the face of the modern ecumenical ethos.

Even on the U.S. Ordinariate website (Chair of St. Peter), they have not directly addressed the Episcopal Church’s decision to bless and sanction same-sex marriages in their church.

 

[multitude]

Why would the Pope address it? It’s not as if the Protestants recognize him as their leader. That’s why sometimes people are going to have to make a hard decision regarding which church they really want to belong to.

 

[crai7]

Really?? Goodness! I am not Presbyterian, but know how their governance works. First, gay marriage in the US is only 60 days legal. And Presbyterians have only recently had enough votes to change the wording in their Constitution. It won’t take effect until next week. Additionally, any clergy or Presbytery may opt out of performing same sex marriages because of conscience.

See here: pcusa.org/news/2015/3/17/presbyterian-church-us-approves-marriage-amendment/

So, you say that ‘thousands’ of congregations broke away? Hmmm. Given that there are less than 10,000 congregations in the US in total, I think we might have heard if a number that large have broken away from the church structure. I can’t think of one, actually. But I’d be happy to check.

Declining numbers are happening nationwide in most all churches. We all know this. And we all know many of the factors. I don’t think it’s because of liberal stances. My guess is that more people are choosing liberal churches BECAUSE of those stances than leaving. Those who have wanted to break away because of gender issues, politics, etc, have already done so.

Yes thousands. This was covered by the media in April already. According to the source below 34,000 black churches broke away from the PCUSA.

christiantoday.com/article/34000.black.churches.break.away.from.presbyterian.church.over.same.sex.marriage/50998.htm

As for liberalism attracting more congregants… I don’t thinks so. Allowing gays to marry, just means you’ve appealed to a really small demographic. Only 1.6% are gay/lesbian according to the US National Health Interview Survey - in spite of the exaggerated statistics the gay/lesbian lobby groups attempt to project. As for women, women already go to conservative churches in larger numbers than males… allowing female priests only curries favour with the few women who actually want to become priests, and a few feminist extremists.

That’s why Pentecostals are growing more rapidly than any other denomination in the UK, while the Anglican church is languishing.

Why join a church that is trying to be all things to all men, and outright ignores God’s very clear commands? Allowing female priests, gay marriage etc. is a sign that sycophants run these churches. They are more interested in appeasing the liberal media, liberal academics and lobby groups than anyone else. It is not Christian anymore, at best it is a social club.

 

[EasterJoy]

He could address it, but he probably won’t. Such actions fly in the face of the modern ecumenical ethos…

I have never heard Pope Francis say, “These morals apply to Catholics, but not to everyone else.” No, he teaches morality as a son of the Church, one who realizes that the Church teaches the truth, not an opinion or a perspective. He preaches Christ and the faith and morals that have been revealed to the Church to the world, to all who will listen.

 

[Sy_Noe]

isn’t the rise and popularity of these DANGEROUS “Christian” churches…

This madness…

As a young conservative, this insanity is depressing.

Well as an older progressive, what depresses me is when conservatives resort to capitalizing “dangerous” and putting it in bold letters, putting " " around Christian, and describing the understandings of others as madness and insanity. Just because their faith understanding is different than another’s. Perhaps nothing turns me off more to the conservative way of thought. But as we each walk our faith journeys, peace on yours and to all.

 

[Sy_Noe]

As for liberalism attracting more congregants… I don’t thinks so. Allowing gays to marry, just means you’ve appealed to a really small demographic. Only 1.6% are gay/lesbian according to the US National Health Interview Survey - in spite of the exaggerated statistics the gay/lesbian lobby groups attempt to project. As for women, women already go to conservative churches in larger numbers than males… allowing female priests only curries favour with the few women who actually want to become priests, and a few feminist extremists.

That’s why Pentecostals are growing more rapidly than any other denomination in the UK, while the Anglican church is languishing.

Why join a church that is trying to be all things to all men, and outright ignores God’s very clear commands? Allowing female priests, gay marriage etc. is a sign that sycophants run these churches. They are more interested in appeasing the liberal media, liberal academics and lobby groups than anyone else. It is not Christian anymore, at best it is a social club.

Newsflash. Christ-believing gays and lesbians are not the only believers who believe in civil marriage equality. And the belief that females can serve as priests and pastors and spiritually feed and lead their congregations just as well as their male counterparts can, is not something limited to a few women or to a few extremists. And what may be clear to you and to others may not be as set in stone for those of us who are human beings with finite minds, who are therefore willing to have the humility to be more open to the possibility of a growing and evolving understanding of an infinite God. Peace.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Yes thousands. This was covered by the media in April already. According to the source below 34,000 black churches broke away from the PCUSA.

christiantoday.com/article/34000.black.churches.break.away.from.presbyterian.church.over.same.sex.marriage/50998.htm

Perhaps we could clear up a few things. One, the National Black Church Initiative, of which you write, is a national organization made up of individuals and congregations across the country. I don’t know them, so I cannot speak about them with accuracy. But read their website. They are an affiliated group.

Two: Because of the Presbyterian’s stance on Same Sex Marriage, they said they would not loosely affiliate themselves with the national church (PCUSA) anymore.

and Three: There were NOT 34,000 Presbyterian congregations that left the denomination. There are NOT that many churches IN the denomination.

Good grief!