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Abba
Guest
Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Of course not.Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
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Abba
Guest
Specifically, wonder if violations of Canon Law 1364 and 1369 incurr latae sententiae automatically.?
PENALTIES FOR INDIVIDUAL DELICTS
TITLE I.
DELICTS AGAINST RELIGION AND THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 1364 - 1369)
Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.
§2. If contumacy of long duration or the gravity of scandal demands it, other penalties can be added, including dismissal from the clerical state.
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.
Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
Can. 1367 A person who throws away the consecrated species or takes or retains them for a sacrilegious purpose incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; moreover, a cleric can be punished with another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.
Can. 1368 A person who commits perjury while asserting or promising something before ecclesiastical authority is to be punished with a just penalty.
Can. 1369 A person who in a public show or speech, in published writing, or in other uses of the instruments of social communication utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion or the Church is to be punished with a just penalty.
PENALTIES FOR INDIVIDUAL DELICTS
TITLE I.
DELICTS AGAINST RELIGION AND THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 1364 - 1369)
Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.
§2. If contumacy of long duration or the gravity of scandal demands it, other penalties can be added, including dismissal from the clerical state.
Can. 1365 A person guilty of prohibited participation in sacred rites (communicatio in sacris) is to be punished with a just penalty.
Can. 1366 Parents or those who take the place of parents who hand offer their children to be baptized or educated in a non Catholic religion are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.
Can. 1367 A person who throws away the consecrated species or takes or retains them for a sacrilegious purpose incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; moreover, a cleric can be punished with another penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.
Can. 1368 A person who commits perjury while asserting or promising something before ecclesiastical authority is to be punished with a just penalty.
Can. 1369 A person who in a public show or speech, in published writing, or in other uses of the instruments of social communication utters blasphemy, gravely injures good morals, expresses insults, or excites hatred or contempt against religion or the Church is to be punished with a just penalty.
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pnewton
Guest
I see nothing in the quote that remotely applies to Cardinal Burke.
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Stat_Crux
Guest
He has not excommunicated himself, and nor have any of the other Cardinals in asking their Dubia on how to apply Amoris Laetitia. One cannot be excommunicated for asking questions.Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
I share the questions of the four Cardinals on exactly how we are to interpret AL, of itself and in the context of other Magisterial Church teachings (namely Familiaris Consortio 84, Veritatis Splendor and the 1994 CDF letter on the subject of Communion for the civilly divorced and remarried).
Despite there being several different interpretations of AL being proposed at present, some of which seem to me and to others to depart from established teaching, I am not willing to suggest that anyone is excommunicated for it. I pray that the present confusion over how to apply Amoris Laetitia is resolved for the greater glory of God, and that His Church comes out stronger on the other side with all of her members intact.
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St_Francis
Guest
If you ask if someone ought to be excommunicated, you ought to provide a case for excommunicating him.Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
Why do you think the Cardinal should be excommunicated, and why do you not include the others who co-authored the dubia?
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twf
Guest
You’d have to excommunicate others by this logic. What about the bishops of Kazakhstan who have recently made their views very clear (and in opposition to say the bishops of Malta or Argentina).If you ask if someone ought to be excommunicated, you ought to provide a case for excommunicating him.
Why do you think the Cardinal should be excommunicated, and why do you not include the others who co-authored the dubia?
To the OP - as I said in your other thread, bishops can disagree with the Pope and remain Catholic bishops. There were many “progressive” bishops in years past who disagreed with St John Paul II and Benedict on various issues. They weren’t excommunicated. Now it’s the “traditionalist” bishops who disagree with the reigning Pope. The Pope isn’t a living prophet. Unless he definitively binds the Church, there is wiggle room.
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Teelynn
Guest
WHAT? EXCOMMUNICATED HIMSELF? For what? Asking for clarification on an Encyclical? You’ve got to be kidding me, right?Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
I’ll tell you who’s excommunicated themselves…The Bishops who are going against the Church’s time honored teaching re: marriage and receiving the Eucharist. If in fact the Bishops of Malta have truthfully written to their people and Priests telling them they may receive ‘If they are at peace with God’, they indeed have excommunicated themselves. What they are permitting is completely against Church teaching. To make matters even worse, they are reportedly telling their Priests they MUST honor their ‘new directives’. OK…so they are DEMANDING that in some cases these Priests themselves commit mortal sin? Key word here is IF this is all true.
A.L. MUST be clarified in order to truly bring unity to the Church.
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St_Francis
Guest
Are you resonding to my post? Because I don’t understand what you are saying. My point is that no logic has been made for excommunicating Card. Burke.You’d have to excommunicate others by this logic. What about the bishops of Kazakhstan who have recently made their views very clear (and in opposition to say the bishops of Malta or Argentina).
…
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Wampa
Guest
I saw this title and successfully predicted which poster created the thread, which should tell you something on a site with many thousands of posters.
The extreme rhetoric of a minority on both sides of this debate is growing tiresome.
The extreme rhetoric of a minority on both sides of this debate is growing tiresome.
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tseleehw
Guest
If Cardinal Burke is excommunicated for asking questions, then you can probably excommunicate hundreds if not thousands of other cardinals, bishops, priests, and deacons that have been asking the same questions. Not to mention other laypersons and theologians that have questioned the more liberal interpretations of AL as well. The four Cardinals of note are not the only ones concerned with the ambiguity of the guidance in AL.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
If so, he is taking a lot of Christians with him, including myself. What was it - mark your door with lamb’s blood? I’m on it.Has Cardinal Burke excommunicated himself by his actions? Are there canon laws that would apply in this matter or teachings of the Church?
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