Has God Rejected Her if

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Is it a sign that God has rejected or reprobated a Christian woman,
if he lets her accidentally, naiively, and unknowingly make a long series of grave
mistakes which, if they became known, could cause her to be
put away for life, and which she never intended to do anything illegal or immoral at all?

Is that a sign that God has rejected her?
Or is it a sign of the devil attacking her?
Or possibly just dumb luck?

And if God has not rejected her, but let her do all this wrong for so long, in total naivete,
then where does God’s “providence” fit into the picture?
Especially if, during all this time, she was living a life of daily prayer **including asking God to not let her forget to do those very things…**which she is now terrified were wrong?
Perhaps, then, God is bringing temporal terror and temporal suffering onto her
as temporal punishment for past and forgiven sins?
But why would he do such a thing to a penitent person?

Should she continue to trust in God that He loves her and will take care of her
and keep her from all harm? If His providence did not protect her from making
horrible errors, innocently, when she was in daily prayer and fellowship with Him?
 
Just my opinion, but I think it is a sign that she has failed to take responsibility for herself, her actions, and failed to strive to learn right from wrong. We are all responsible for what we do (our actual sins), and what we don’t do (sins of omission or a failure to seek Truth, failure to be responsible for ourselves… ). And one can’t blame God, or even the devil for that.
 
That seems a bit crass and judgmental.

From what I understand and have heard,
she read, and sincerely misunderstood the content of,
some documents that she had received, and
acted accordingly. She was mistaken, not at all malicious.

Have you never made sincere mistakes, major or minor?
If not, lucky you 🙂

My questions still stand, absolutely unanswered.
 
“if errors were what you watch, O LORD,
WHO could stand?..”

— the holy scriptures
 
God does not work that way. No, God is not punishing, rejecting, or otherwise “doing” anything to this person.

A person who makes an honest mistake is not guilty of a sin. A person living in “terror” should consult their priest because it sounds as if they might suffer from scrupulosity.
 
Hi 1ke,
thanks for your comments (they were much more considered than the first response,
it seems anyway).

I agree that an honest mistake, however many times repeated, is not a deliberate sin
so I agree that she is not subjectively guilty of any sin, no matter how serious or repeated her errors, in this matter.
The problem for her, is that the authorities are often not godly, but legalistic, people and
not very moral-theology-oriented, and probably wouldn’t see it that way. I understand
she was advised by attorneys to not voluntarily say anything to them as they might, could, and probably would, construe it as an admission of deliberate guilt.
Truly a conundrum.

But 1ke, what about in the Old Testament, where forgiven sinners
were still punished by God by Him bringing about turmoil in their lives?
For example, King David. He, a multiple-married, very rich man (KING for heavens sake),
“Stole” his friend’s wife, BathSheba thru adultery, then had his friend killed deliberately in order to cover up the pregnancy (the murder of Uriah). Only when, months later, he was confronted by Nathan the Prophet, did David repent of his deed. And he repented sincerely, and God forgave him. But God through Nathan told David that he, God, was going to raise up trouble against him in his own household for the rest of his life and that his innocent little baby was going to get sick and die. All of which happened, as scripture records.
So, might this lady’s troubles be something like that? Even though she never set out
to do anything improper at all? Apparently she has confessed and been absolved.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Hi 1ke, again.
Here’s a better way of putting it.

Our Faith teaches about TEMPORAL Punishments still due to forgiven sins.

So, this lady’s previously confessed, forgiven sins are forgiven.
But don’t “Temporal” punishments remain?
Might what is happening to her be God bringing about temporal punishments
on her for her forgiven sins? (( I don’t want to suggest that to her, mind you,
I’m just trying to understand ))
And if so, should she pray to have these punishments diverted to some other,
more merciful form of temporal punishment, and some of them even taken away
by indulgences?

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
Is it a sign that God has rejected or reprobated a Christian woman, if he lets her accidentally, naiively, and unknowingly make a long series of grave
mistakes which, if they became known, could cause her to be
put away for life, and which she never intended to do anything illegal or immoral at all?
Click to expand...
+If the reference here is actually referring to . . . criminal illegal activities . . . involving the breaking of civil law and violation of civil authority . . . then this individual needs to go to her priest and lay out the situation in its specifics . . . and seek guidance as to how . . . and if . . . this situation should be addressed . . . and . . . in particular . . . consideration should be given to the possibility of there needing to be addressed the need for specific reparation for committed criminal acts against others . . . “grave mistakes” are mentioned . . . which sounds very serious . . . a priest needs to be sought out for confession of sin and absolution . . . and also for guidance according to the gravity of the given situation being referenced by the original poster . . . God’s love for her and **His **forgiveness . . . when repentantly sought out . . . is absolute . . . but taking responsibility for our actions and making reparation for the destruction criminal acts often cause can be a very real necessity in certain situations . . .

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . guide and direct+​
 
**God’s love for her and His forgiveness . . . when repentantly sought out . . . is absolute . . . but taking responsibility for our actions and making reparation for the destruction criminal acts often cause can be a very real necessity in certain situations . . . **

I agree with the above statement.
From what I heard, she caused no harm or destruction whatsoever.
My question is why God would let such a person HONESTLY make serious errors,
when she was seeking His guidance, and did not correct her honest mistake
until it had gone on a long time?
and I was questioning whether that allowance might be temporal punishment
for previously forgiven sins? Saying that she should take responsibility for her actions may be “true,” but it’s an evasion of the question, really. Her actions would have been done completely in good faith. And I understand that she HAS confessed and been absolved. If I were advising her, I would advise her to pray to God for the means to make any needed restitutions, if any, anonymously, to the best of her ability as God provides her with the means, which, again, I would tell her to request by prayer.

((Do you some of you actually believe that people do not make unintentional errors,
without malicious intent?
Good lord, before I became a Catholic, when I would read the New Testament,
I always, with complete honesty and without malice, always interpreted the Brothers of Jesus as literal blood-brothers and children of Mary. Many of you, ex-protestants, surely did so as well. Yet our interpretation was, in fact, false, and sacrilegious. Yet we were NOT subjectively guilty of the sin of sacrilege. We didn’t know we were in error. In fact, a person unfamiliar with Catholic Marian tradition, would almost always misinterpret the brethren of Jesus as Children of Mary. It’s the most natural reading of the texts.
That’s just one example.
Another would be Christ’s teaching about ALL Divorce and Remarriage constituting Adultery — the most normal, natural reading of the text APPEARS, to very SINCERE, God-fearing people, to provide an EXCEPTION for cases of Porneia occuring in the marriage. We Catholics know that that interpretation is a grave mistake which can lead to gravely sinful re-marriages, objectively speaking, but hundreds of millions of godfearing people misunderstand that passage with complete honesty on their part.))

Love to all,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
It’s suspicious that you have been carefully avoiding saying what exactly it was that she supposedly did, and I know from experience that a lot of people withhold damning facts when they want to trick others into giving them the answer that they want to hear.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
That seems a bit crass and judgmental.

From what I understand and have heard,
she read, and sincerely misunderstood the content of,
some documents that she had received, and
acted accordingly. She was mistaken, not at all malicious.

Have you never made sincere mistakes, major or minor?
If not, lucky you 🙂

My questions still stand, absolutely unanswered.
Click to expand...
It was not meant to be harsh, it’s just my opinion. I realize I don’t know the full details and I can’t actually give a good answer, which is why I stated it was just my opinion. The true answer is what others have since posted…she needs to visit with a Priest.
As to being crass or judgemental, I only stated my thoughts. I didn’t judge her soul and I didn’t condenm anyone.

This question brings to mind a brother of mine. Anytime something goes wrong in his life, he thinks he is under attack from the devil. For example: “I forgot to set my alarm, and I was late to work and got in big trouble…I’m under spiritual attack.” OR, “I told a co-worker what I REALLY thought and now he hates me…I’m under spiritual attack.” OR, “Things are going horribly for me lately…I think God is punishing me for…”.

Those statements represent living life…normal things that we all live, yet for some reason there is a desire there to 1.) blame God or the devil for his own lack of responsibility, or 2.) blame God or the devil for a natural consequence to confronting someone, or 3.) blame God for the daily turmoil we all face from time to time. The fact is, he doesn’t want to take responsibility for his own life. That’s not being judgemental, at least not in the popular meaning of the word, it’s just reality. And if I tell him my thoughts as I’ve typed them here, that’s not judging him, it’s giving him proper fraternal admonition and helping him to take responsibility for his life.
 
**It’s suspicious that you have been carefully avoiding saying what exactly it was that she supposedly did, and I know from experience that a lot of people withhold damning facts when they want to trick others into giving them the answer that they want to hear. **

First of all, why would I know “exactly” what she did?
It involved, from what I understand, acting upon the misinterpretation
of a document, and not even suspecting a misinterpretation for a long time.

My question is not posed to “carefully avoid” saying anything.
(The actual situation is none of my business, and hear-say,
but I use it cuz I worry about my own past repented sins
being maybe visited on me “temporally” in ways I wouldn’t expect
((like maybe letting me be stricken with cancer or hit by a bus
or like being unemployed for 2 hellish years and etc.))
and I wonder if God, in New Testament Times, does that to repentant Christians,
as “temporal” punishment,
or is it possibly the Devil trying to mess with us, or is it sometimes just
human frailty and weakness, or even dumb luck??)

The essence of the question is whether God
will sometimes punish already-forgiven sins ((temporal punishment, NOT eternal))
by allowing the repentant sinner to make even bigger mistakes?
That’s the question, no “tricks” about it.
My first question, the title of the thread, about God rejecting, has already been answered, no, bad things happening doesn’t mean necessarily that God has rejected a repented Christian.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
**This question brings to mind a brother of mine. Anytime something goes wrong in his life, he thinks he is under attack from the devil. For example: “I forgot to set my alarm, and I was late to work and got in big trouble…I’m under spiritual attack.” OR, “I told a co-worker what I REALLY thought and now he hates me…I’m under spiritual attack.” OR, “Things are going horribly for me lately…I think God is punishing me for…”.

Those statements represent living life…normal things that we all live, **

I would agree with you, largely, that yes these things represent daily troubles in life.
And I WOULDN’T say that every time something doesn’t go right that it is always the Devil attacking a person, nor necessarily God “punishing” a person, either. Nor, however, would I agree that it is the person’s fault, in every case, either. It is not unreasonable, when things go horribly wrong in a person’s life, to wonder if Divine punishment might be involved. The scriptures are chock-full of God bringing punishments and disciplines on his people. I guess what I wonder is, if the discipline IS from God, and for the person’s spiritual good, just HOW SEVERE God would make it? If it is too severe and causes a person to lose his or her confidence in God’s protection and guidance, then I would have to say that that is probably not God’s doing, nor natural daily screw-ups, but something demonic. Remember, in 2nd Corinthians, regarding the man who had been wickedly living in incest with his father’s wife (from 1st Corinthians) and was excommunicated, and had repented, Paul told the congregation to welcome and comfort and forgive him, not push on with the punishment, lest the man “lose heart” and fall victim to Satan for, as Paul put it,
“we are not ignorant of HIS DESIGNS.” His DESIGNS. That indicates an active, conspiring enemy of repentant people of Christian faith, not a passive, relatively harmless, inactive devil. So, your brother may blame TOO MUCH on the Devil, but it would seem from scripture that this fallen angel is much more active against believers than we commonly want to face.
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
…I guess what I wonder is, if the discipline IS from God, and for the person’s spiritual good, just HOW SEVERE God would make it? If it is too severe and causes a person to lose his or her confidence in God’s protection and guidance, then I would have to say that that is probably not God’s doing, nor natural daily screw-ups, but something demonic. Remember, in 2nd Corinthians, regarding the man who had been wickedly living in incest with his father’s wife (from 1st Corinthians) and was excommunicated, and had repented, Paul told the congregation to welcome and comfort and forgive him, not push on with the punishment, lest the man “lose heart” and fall victim to Satan for, as Paul put it,
“we are not ignorant of HIS DESIGNS.” His DESIGNS. That indicates an active, conspiring enemy of repentant people of Christian faith, not a passive, relatively harmless, inactive devil. So, your brother may blame TOO MUCH on the Devil, but it would seem from scripture that this fallen angel is much more active against believers than we commonly want to face.
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
Click to expand...
I agree with you here, and to answer your question…look at Job. He gave Job tremendous burdens and allowed the devil to punish him as well. And, as you stated, God won’t give us more than we can handle with His Grace…He won’t give us more than we can bear.

Definitely, my brother blames too much on outside influence rather than taking responsibility. But, yes, I also agree (and can give first hand account) that we are attacked by the devil and I agree that God does put us through trials to build our Faith.
 
**withhold damning facts **

Hi.
Since from what I have heard, she acted in misinterpretation and naivete,
then there are no “damning facts,” regardless of what all it involved,
for the LORD would KNOW she acted in ignorance, not willfulness.
So He would not “damn” her for it, unless she sinned willfully and was not sorry.
If she goofed up honestly, however seriously, then she subjectively-speaking
has not sinned at all, but would need to do whatever she could to correct the error,
if at all possible and within her means.
I do not know nor want to know exact details, nor names, nor anything else,
but I heard it may have involved some form of public assistance and misunderstanding
a document(s) pertaining to it.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
First of all, why would I know “exactly” what she did?
Click to expand...
Well you’re the one with the question 🤷
Jaypeeto4 said:
I worry about my own past repented sins
being maybe visited on me “temporally” in ways I wouldn’t expect
Click to expand...
Sure we get blindsided by the aftereffects of things we’ve done in the past. People who quit smoking still get lung cancer.
Jaypeeto4 said:
I wonder if God, in New Testament Times, does that to repentant Christians,
as “temporal” punishment,
or is it possibly the Devil trying to mess with us, or is it sometimes just
human frailty and weakness, or even dumb luck??)
Click to expand...
All three. Moses killed an Egyptian and decades later was denied admission to the promised land. But in your example of this lady you’re talking about, the simplest solution is that it boils down to her lack of common sense that all these things she brought on herself. That’s not being crass and judgmental, that’s just the fact of the matter.

So she misinterpreted a “document” of some kind and then dug herself in deep because of it? What was the document, a piece of junk mail that said she was pre-approved for a credit card and then she starts charging stuff on the fake cardboard demo card they sometimes include, and then she’s arrested for fraud? If so then that’s all on her, God or the Devil have nothing to do with it.
 
No, God does not reject anybody. I also find the situation you describe almost impossible to believe. It sounds to me more like the woman in question either did suspect that something was wrong OR should have thought something was wrong.

I also wish to point out that a good attorney will help with this kind of situation. In most cases of this nature, if you can show that you truly did not know any better AND should not have known any better, then coming forward is far better for you then not saying anything, which will look like hiding it. You say that an attorney told her not to say anything, maybe she needs to find a new attorney.

Pax
 
**All three. Moses killed an Egyptian and decades later was denied admission to the promised land. But in your example of this lady you’re talking about, the simplest solution is that it boils down to her lack of common sense that all these things she brought on herself. That’s not being crass and judgmental, that’s just the fact of the matter.

So she misinterpreted a “document” of some kind and then dug herself in deep because of it? What was the document, a piece of junk mail that said she was pre-approved for a credit card and then she starts charging stuff on the fake cardboard demo card they sometimes include, and then she’s arrested for fraud? If so then that’s all on her, God or the Devil have nothing to do with it. **

Moses was kept out of the Promised Land because he disobeyed God in striking the rock to draw water and not giving the Glory to God for it. It had nothing to do with his murder of the Egyptian, at least not according to scripture.
You misinterpreted that. Does that mean, sir, that YOU lack common sense???
That would not be fair to assume, now would it??
Who on earth would charge stuff on the fake cardboard demo card you get in the mail?
The number is a phony number…good lord, no merchant website would accept it, neither would any store clerk. You are engaging in ridicule. Why stoop to that?

I do not agree with you that people who misinterpret things or forget things honestly,
bring all the trouble on themselves. What a merciless assertion.
People make mistakes all the time, without being malicious about it.
Some folks also suffer from honest delusions, too: mistaken beliefs about something,
significant or relatively insignificant.
Jesus warned all of us not to judge people severely (“its all their own fault,” “serves 'em right,” etc etc etc).
“By that same standard by which you judge others, you yourself will be judged.”
If we are severe and harsh in our evaluations of other’s flaws and falls, Christ will be
not one iota less severe to us on judgement day, atonement or not. He said so.
And I think he meant it.
Because people misinterpret things, sometimes seriously so, does not mean that they lack common sense or that they necessarily deserve to suffer terrible consequences for honest mistakes.
Lord, if I focused on the facts of what sins strictly deserve, I would never
pray for mercy on the Holy Souls in Purgatory, or for mercy for anyone else for that matter. And I would receive no mercy myself for being that way.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
**withhold damning facts **

Hi.
Since from what I have heard, she acted in misinterpretation and naivete,
then there are no “damning facts,” regardless of what all it involved,
for the LORD would KNOW she acted in ignorance, not willfulness.
So He would not “damn” her for it, unless she sinned willfully and was not sorry.
If she goofed up honestly, however seriously, then she subjectively-speaking
has not sinned at all, but would need to do whatever she could to correct the error,
if at all possible and within her means.
I do not know nor want to know exact details, nor names, nor anything else,
but I heard it may have involved some form of public assistance and misunderstanding
a document(s) pertaining to it.
Click to expand...
No I’m talking about facts that are deliberately left out in order to change the whole story. I knew a kid once who saw the Jurassic Park dinosaur movie with the one dinosaur that rams its head into things and he would go around ramming his head into people’s stomachs. He picked the wrong guy and the guy stuck out his own fist and the kid went skull first into the guy’s knuckles, then went off crying to mommy that this guy just up and hit him for no reason. Left out the part about ramming everybody all afternoon. Guess whose side of the story mommy believed? Eventually she was asked not to come back, but something tells me she went to all her friends and said she was kicked out for no reason and left out the real reason. I think the term is “victim mentality” and I see it all the time. Anyway the guilt or innocence of your lady rests on the facts, sounds like she is up for welfare fraud or something like that, and you admit you don’t know them, so in her case there is no answer. But the broader question does have an answer, that not all suffering in this life is necessarily because of something we do or did however long ago, forgiven or not. I mean, we die because of Adam’s sin. But you’d be surprised at how much suffering in this life is 100% on us and us alone.
 
**No I’m talking about facts that are deliberately left out in order to change the whole story. I knew a kid once who saw the Jurassic Park dinosaur movie with the one dinosaur that rams its head into things and he would go around ramming his head into people’s stomachs. He picked the wrong guy and the guy stuck out his own fist and the kid went skull first into the guy’s knuckles, then went off crying to mommy that this guy just up and hit him for no reason. Left out the part about ramming everybody all afternoon. Guess whose side of the story mommy believed? **

We are comparing apples and oranges, though.
The kid you describe was a willful, deliberate troublemaker.
I am describing someone who acted in ignorance and naivete.
If that’s the actual case, then God KNOWS she didn’t do anything evil or sinful,
at least not subjectively. Even if Fallen Man, in his harshness, convicts her.

What I was wondering about was based on our church’s teaching on “temporal punishments” that are still due even after the forgiveness of mortal or venial sins.
I wondered if God would allow a repentant Christian to make a horrible and potentially life-ruining mistake just to bring temporal punishments for a forgiven sin. The consensus answer, if I read the posts correctly, seems to be No. He wouldn’t be that severe. He definitely wouldn’t CAUSE the person to misinterpret the document(s).
Since Christians DO have an enemy who wants to destroy our Repentances and destroy the walk with the LORD, then it stands to reason that the Devil wouldn’t mind at all somehow causing a person inexperienced in such things to misinterpret what she reads, to her detriment.
So I believe that this person should seek God’s protection and help in
making any restitution, if any needs to be made.
She commits no Sin at all by asking for God’s mercy and protection and aid,
especially if she didn’t intend to do anything improper to begin with.
Quite a bit different from the mean kid running around ramming his head into
people’s stomachs deliberately and then getting upset because he got
a knucke sandwich!!
God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+****
 
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