Has never been known to fail?

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emile2

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In no way am I trying to be harsh here, but only trying to learn the truth on this issue. Some prayers or novenas will occasionally come with a statement saying “has never been known to fail”. Or “has seldom…”. I’m willing to believe it - if it’s true, and that’s the question. In each instance, how does that statement get there and by whose authority? How can anyone know if it’s NEVER failed because who can keep track of it when it’s sent out into the public forum, such as via the Internet, and nobody even knows who is saying the prayer, never mind if it was answered. It can’t hurt to say the particular prayer, but it shouldn’t claim a perfect result if that can’t be verified. Am I wrong? Thanks, all.
 
You are correct. The Church does not guarantee that any prayer is “unfailing”. For one thing, the “effectiveness” of the prayer depends on the disposition of the one praying. Also, God may choose not to grant our request or to grant it in a way that not obvious to us. Since God knows the bigger picture and we don’t, sometimes what we pray for is not in our best interest and God does not grant the particular request.

Sometimes people become superstitious about a prayer. While there are indulgences attached to particular prayers, no prayer is guaranteed to always result in the granting of our request. As you pointed out, even if a prayer always had such a result, how could anyone know that fact for sure?
 
When you pray that God guide you… or that a problem shall pass… or that you make a good decision based on God’s will… how can these fail? It isn’t like you would ever know if God didn’t guide you or that the decision was not based on God’s will and all problems eventually pass… so it is about faith… trusting God to guide you, help you make a decision or get through a problem because he always does.
 
Our sincere prayers to God never fail. When we pray we should be open to God’s Will to be done, and not ours. When we submit ourselves to him with humility, he is there with his grace.
 
That makes me question what the point of prayer is. If God will do His will anyway, then there is no point in asking for anything, if He’s just going to give you what He wants you to have anyway. Jesus said that anything we ask for in His name would be given. But it isn’t. Unless we ask for God to do what He wants anyway, and now I’m back where I started. Hmmmm. Hard to understand all this.
 
YPat said:
That makes me question what the point of prayer is. If God will do His will anyway, then there is no point in asking for anything, if He’s just going to give you what He wants you to have anyway. Jesus said that anything we ask for in His name would be given. But it isn’t. Unless we ask for God to do what He wants anyway, and now I’m back where I started. Hmmmm. Hard to understand all this.
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You have an excellent point. It seems we have cheapened prayer to mean a laundry list for what we would like God to do. So basically if God were to do everything we pray for, then we will be able to create our own world in our own imagery. Then of course you have the situation where two people have opposing prayers that cancel out – what does God do then? Copy and paste His Creation into another dimension and let you each live one dimension where you get the prayer and one not? How do you know your counterpart is happy if you’re not?

The deepest form of prayer, contemplative prayer, uses no human words at all, but it done through and usually in, silence. The whole thing is to QUIT thinking about what you want to happen, about what has happened or might happen, and basically anything your mind wants to distract you with, and simply enjoy time with God in silence. When you have become quiet, God is able to send the Holy Spirit to basically renew and upgrade your mental operating system throught the gift called “contemplation” which is done if and when the Father wishes on His schedule, although your humility and demeanor and effectiveness at getting your nagging, thoughtful mind out of the way, are the major factors which leave you open to where you have effectively “opened the door of your inner room” so God can get in there with you.

After time and receiving contemplation, you will start to notice your mind thinking differently, in a much more peaceful way usually (not always – but don’t worry about it because you are in Good Hands with the Divine Therapist aka Holy Spirit) and over time you start having a totally new mindset, a non-dualistic mindset which demands nothing, and accepts fully what the Lord has in store. Eventually you will recognize the you are being renewed and in the process, all these questions like whether a certain prayer is answered will seem “cute.”

I say all this because that’s what prayer CAN be, as opposed to a to-do list for God.

IMO “Never fail novenas,” appeal to superstition and convey themselves from one host mind to another. My ex-pastor put up a sign in the adoration chapel NOT to leave novenas in there. I have no problem with a prayer regimen, and I liked the important comment another poster made that “never fail” does not necessarily mean God capitulated with our request. Problem is, the novenas clearly give the impression that God is guaranteed to follow your will on whatever it is, and that’s destructive. But it catches people and keeps them from ever knowing with prayer truly is. The WORST kind are those that are accompanied with stories of how this person was healed and that person fell into bad luck because only the former did the novena. These are hell’s masterpieces.

Alan
 
YPat said:
That makes me question what the point of prayer is. If God will do His will anyway, then there is no point in asking for anything, if He’s just going to give you what He wants you to have anyway. Jesus said that anything we ask for in His name would be given. But it isn’t. Unless we ask for God to do what He wants anyway, and now I’m back where I started. Hmmmm. Hard to understand all this.
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It is my understanding that when we say “in His name” it means according to His mind. (will).

We pray because it helps us. The Lord desires our cooperation with His Will, which is what is best for us. 🙂
 
There is only one prayer that I know of that never fails…

“Thy will be done.”
 
Sincere prayer, we will not be abandonedhttp://www.spgames.info/g.gif
 
Christianity is about self sacrifice, that’s what I’ve concluded. You pray, and it changes you. You move the mountain that Jesus talks about because YOU have changed. Sometimes you need to ask what you should pray for or you may pray amiss. Scripture indicates that.
 
Just become a prayer. That’s all it takes. The rest is academic.

Alan
 
So really there is no point to prayer. Submit to the Will of God and don’t even bother to think about asking in Jesus’ name for change. If God wants it, it’ll happen. If He doesn’t, it won’t. Might as well cut out the praying bit.
 
YPat said:
So really there is no point to prayer. Submit to the Will of God and don’t even bother to think about asking in Jesus’ name for change. If God wants it, it’ll happen. If He doesn’t, it won’t. Might as well cut out the praying bit.
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Not exactly. The problem is, there is an unhealthy view of what prayer is and what it’s for.

Like I said you “become” a prayer. I’m not kidding here; until we do that our prayers are not going to have any noticeable power other than to get others to recite the prayer with you. But if you’re not a prayer, roughly corresponding to what Jesus said about bringing your gifts to the altar only after you settle things with your brethren, then your prayers are not going to have a lot of power. Having things “settled” with all people is approximately the same as being a prayer, in my book.

Any prayer can be psychologically uplifting to the ones praying, but what change does it bring about? I’ve not heard of God doing “magic tricks” like turning physics upside down because we wish something impossible – but God does “magic tricks” in the minds and hearts of those who believe (and some who don’t) that are above and beyond what any mainstream expert of the mind can imagine.

So don’t insult prayer in general; if you want to insult it, be more specific. 😃

Alan
 
YPat said:
So really there is no point to prayer. Submit to the Will of God and don’t even bother to think about asking in Jesus’ name for change. If God wants it, it’ll happen. If He doesn’t, it won’t. Might as well cut out the praying bit.
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Hardly. I’ll agree with you only on the “if God wants it, it’ll happen, if he doesn’t, it won’t” bit. Surely everyone must accept that much, because what would the contrary be? God would hardly be God, otherwise.

Every other sentence you wrote, however, is false. Now, if in my prayer I could tell God what to do, I would be greater than God. (In fact, I’d be the real God, since God answers to me, so long as I can figure out the right prayer to say.)

What we must never lose sight of as Christians, when we get into these abstract discussions, is that God is love. God loves us, and Christians love God, and God is in that love and is that love.

How, as creatures, can we love, and not express our hopes, desires, and fears to someone we love? That is where the imperative of prayer comes from. That is why Saint Paul says the Spirit intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words, when need be.

But the key point, the most important point, is that this is a two way street. God loves us, too. God, the creator of the entire universe, cares about us, cares about what we have to say. He suffers with us in our sufferings, and rejoices with us in our rejoicing.

In true love (the only kind of love God participates in), there is no conflict of wills. I would never take a job, to give a real example, that required me to move to a city my wife would be truly miserable in. If I did, it would be selfish and show that I didn’t really love her.

In exactly the same way, if I were to pray for something contrary to God’s will, I would be being selfish, and showing that I didn’t really love Him. Such selfishness that goes against God’s will is the definition of sin, and God will not grant sinful “prayers”, nor will Our Lady pray for them.

So only God’s will is ever done, but that in no way implies that God is indifferent or uncaring to our wills. That would only be the case if our wills were contrary to his, which as Christians we strive, as best we can, to always avoid.

God gave his own Son to die on the cross in order to be closer to us. There is no greater love than his, and that love yearns for us to enter into a deep relationship with him, and share with him all our wants, needs, fears, and preoccupations through prayer.
 
Oh dear. I am sorry if I seem to be insulting prayer. I’m not. I am just failing to understand and was hoping for some non-judgmental help.
I myself am being basked questions about prayer by non-believers and I am failing to answer them because I can’t understand it myself…
I’m not telling God what to do either.
I have novena prayers right in front of me that say in the middle ‘now mention your particular request’. But I thought I wasn’t allowed particular requests.
I’d rather not be too specific as the matter in my heart is very personal, but what I pray for is something that Jesus preached in the gospels.
All the time I see invitations to people to come and pray for an end to war etc. Prayers for change. Now I’m being told we shouldn’t be asking for that.
In my book, a so-called ‘never fail’ novena for an end to war that doesn’t end a war in 9 days has failed. (even though there was never any hope of a 9-day result anyway).
This is actually breaking my heart and I ask for some sensitivity in the matter.
 
YPat said:
Oh dear. I am sorry if I seem to be insulting prayer. I’m not. I am just failing to understand and was hoping for some non-judgmental help.
I myself am being basked questions about prayer by non-believers and I am failing to answer them because I can’t understand it myself…
I’m not telling God what to do either.
I have novena prayers right in front of me that say in the middle ‘now mention your particular request’. But I thought I wasn’t allowed particular requests.
I’d rather not be too specific as the matter in my heart is very personal, but what I pray for is something that Jesus preached in the gospels.
All the time I see invitations to people to come and pray for an end to war etc. Prayers for change. Now I’m being told we shouldn’t be asking for that.
In my book, a so-called ‘never fail’ novena for an end to war that doesn’t end a war in 9 days has failed. (even though there was never any hope of a 9-day result anyway).
This is actually breaking my heart and I ask for some sensitivity in the matter.
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Don’t worry. You didn’t say anything wrong. You didn’t insult prayer; you asked about “never fail” novenas.

Nothing at all wrong with prayer, but these things are not prayer. From a truly believing standpoint, they are superstitious, worse-than-nothing, trash. You’re better off reading fortune cookies, in terms of exacting favors from God.

Now if an individual wants to say them I’m not going to stop them, or judge them. I won’t even give my opinion unless someone else such as themselves bring it up. Even superstition can be soothing to people, and I’m not going to take away their binky.

Alan

Alan
 
YPat said:
Oh dear. I am sorry if I seem to be insulting prayer. I’m not. I am just failing to understand and was hoping for some non-judgmental help.
I myself am being basked questions about prayer by non-believers and I am failing to answer them because I can’t understand it myself…
I’m not telling God what to do either.
I have novena prayers right in front of me that say in the middle ‘now mention your particular request’. But I thought I wasn’t allowed particular requests.
I’d rather not be too specific as the matter in my heart is very personal, but what I pray for is something that Jesus preached in the gospels.
All the time I see invitations to people to come and pray for an end to war etc. Prayers for change. Now I’m being told we shouldn’t be asking for that.
In my book, a so-called ‘never fail’ novena for an end to war that doesn’t end a war in 9 days has failed. (even though there was never any hope of a 9-day result anyway).
This is actually breaking my heart and I ask for some sensitivity in the matter.
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If you believe your request to be according to the mind of Christ, then go ahead and ask it of Him. As long as you submit to His will in the matter, it is okay. If He doesn’t grant a particular request, He will grant you one that is even better for your salvation!
 
Dorothy said:
If you believe your request to be according to the mind of Christ, then go ahead and ask it of Him. As long as you submit to His will in the matter, it is okay. If He doesn’t grant a particular request, He will grant you one that is even better for your salvation!
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Great point.

The key here, is obtaining the mind of Christ. Once that’s done, all else falls into place as you describe. But that’s the hard part for most of us; understanding how to receive a recognizable attachment to that Mind.

Alan
 
When we talk to our friends, we aren’t always asking them for something, but rather we enjoy their company, just being with them.

There are other times when we are in need of help, and we ask our close friends who likely won’t fail us in our need.

There are times we celebrated events with them, birthdays, marriages, etc.

And there are times that friends do things for one another just because we appreciate them and enjoy their friendship.

If we are troubled, we talk to them and maybe ask their advice because we trust them.

It is very much the same with God.

One thing that seems to move God more than anything is our faith or trust in Him.
He said it would move mountains. In addition, in the bible, Jesus even said on several occasions, in one way or another, that it was the faith in Him that moved Him to perform the miracle.

I believe the greater we trust him absolutely in everything, the more you will see mountains moving. In fact, praying to do his will is trusting Him. Just as Jesus prayed to do the Father’s will in the Garden.

Some people are afraid to absolutely trust Him for fear He may ask too much or overdue it. But that is not the case. He knows we are weak and selfish. He will simply lead us gradually to be stronger in a kind way that eventually draw us to his Heart. He is very patient and kind and understanding when we faulter. If we but put ourselves in His hands, we will experience just how loving He is.

Just a thought.
 
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