Has science falsified macroevolution?

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Charles_Darwin said:
Thats the thing your not putting forward good arguments. Your objections are based on ignorance and misunderstandings. It is impossible to discuss the subject, with people that know nothing about it.

I mean really, evolution is taught at every major set of learning in the world. What is it that makes you believe you have some great incite to evolution that the combination of all the greatest minds, at the greats universities on earth, have missed?

Oh, and how does feeling empathy contradict true beliefs?
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You are not resorting to an argument from popularity now are you?

and - it wouldn’t be the first time one person changed the reigning paradigm.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Actually its not.

There are MANY people on this list that have written to the insitute reqesting to have their names removed.
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I wasn’t aware. In that case, that casts a lot of doubt on the list regardless of whether the Steve list is “stating the obvious” or what have you.
 
buffalo said:
You are not resorting to an argument from popularity now are you?

and - it wouldn’t be the first time one person changed the reigning paradigm.
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No, im asking you a direct question, one you refuse to answer, i wonder why???
 
Charles_Darwin said:
There are MANY people on this list that have written to the insitute reqesting to have their names removed.
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As far as we can see so far, virtually every scientist on that list is more credentialed and qualified than you are. By your own standard, you refute yourself.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
Thats the thing your not putting forward good arguments. Your objections are based on ignorance and misunderstandings. It is impossible to discuss the subject, with people that know nothing about it.

I mean really, evolution is taught at every major set of learning in the world. What is it that makes you believe you have some great incite to evolution that the combination of all the greatest minds, at the greats universities on earth, have missed?

Oh, and how does feeling empathy contradict true beliefs?
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Here’s your chance to show us your scientific expertise.

Please provide the scientific proof for your statement:

i believe in a cooprative society and empathy for my fellow man

What evidence can you show that this is true and not merely a figment of you imagination.
 
reggieM said:
As far as we can see so far, virtually every scientist on that list is more credentialed and qualified than you are. By your own standard, you refute yourself.
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So i take it your not going to answer the question?
 
reggieM said:
Here’s your chance to show us your scientific expertise.

Please provide the scientific proof for your statement:

i believe in a cooprative society and empathy for my fellow man

What evidence can you show that this is true and not merely a figment of you imagination.
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I’m not sure what your getting at?

You want me to prove that i believe in a cooperative socirty and empathy for my fellow man?
 
Charles_Darwin said:
You want me to prove that i believe in a cooperative socirty and empathy for my fellow man?
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Sure. Use science to prove that. Or, prove that your belief is based on scientific fact and not your feelings. You claim it to be “the truth” – so, give us the scientific evidence that proves that.
Or perhaps you believe something that has no evidence, cannot be proven and which you cannot defend through scientific means.
 
reggieM said:
Sure. Use science to prove that. Or, prove that your belief is based on scientific fact and not your feelings. You claim it to be “the truth” – so, give us the scientific evidence that proves that.
Or perhaps you believe something that has no evidence, cannot be proven and which you cannot defend through scientific means.
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Oh dear, i was hoping you didnt mean that.

Saying “i care whither my beliefs are true” is not the same as saying everything i believe is true. In fact you will NEVER here me claim absolute truth. There is also a BIG difference between believing something is true, and your belief being true.

More so different claims require different standards of evidence. For example if you tell me you own a dog i am willing to accept that on nothing but your word. For to be honest, it doesnt really matter if you own a dog or not. On the other hand if you tell me the earth is 6000 years old and it was created by a magic man that lives in the sky, who listens to all our thoughts and doesnt approve of my sex life. Then im going to need a little bit more than your say so.

So in short, that is what i believe and you will just have to take my word for that. My believe is based on empathy which is self confirming. In other words i dont think we should do bad things to each other because i can imagine how i would feel if the same was done to me.

However im not claiming that this is the absolutely only way to live, and we all must live that way. Im not cliaming absolute truth. It just happen to be my personal belief.

That is where the cooperative society comes in. I can carry on explaining if you want me to, or are you happy to hear me state that my personal believe my be incorrect?

Its worth adding theat the scientific method isnt the only way to form beliefs, it just so happens when it comes to understanding the universe it is by far and away the best, and INFINITELY better than religion. We can compare results if you like?
 
So in short, that is what i believe and you will just have to take my word for that.
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You believe something for which you have no scientific evidence (that empathy corresponds with and is founded in truth). You cannot defend it as being true. It’s an invisible quality that could be a fantasy. It’s your own “magic” substance which you believe in.
That is where the cooperative society comes in. I can carry on explaining if you want me to, or are you happy to hear me state that my personal believe my be incorrect?
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Not only that it may be incorrect, but you have no scientific proof or evidence to verify that it is correct at all. You believe something, with no scientific evidence, that may be totally false. You claimed that the truth is more important than feelings, but here you believe something which may be false, based on your feelings.

You claim that science is the best means to understanding the universe. But here you have a belief with zero scientific evidence to support it. So clearly, there is something better than science – and you have used it to create your personal belief.
 
Charles_Darwin said:
However im not claiming that this is the absolutely only way to live, and we all must live that way. Im not cliaming absolute truth. It just happen to be my personal belief.
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Well, how can there be empathy and a common good in a world without absolute truths?

Let’s say for example, I am a big bully and I take great delight in picking on those who are weak. According to my way of life you can’t tell me that what I am doing is “wrong” for I take great delight in being the oppressor. If Billy decides he should never get picked on and that’s an absolute, I can quickly rebuttal that with saying there are none and what I’m doing is perfectly good for me therefore it has to be good for everyone else. What’s to stop me then?

I fear the world you present to us here is bereft of any real empathy. Really, think about it.
 
M0nkey said:
Well, how can there be empathy and a common good in a world without absolute truths?

Let’s say for example, I am a big bully and I take great delight in picking on those who are weak. According to my way of life you can’t tell me that what I am doing is “wrong” for I take great delight in being the oppressor. If Billy decides he should never get picked on and that’s an absolute, I can quickly rebuttal that with saying there are none and what I’m doing is perfectly good for me therefore it has to be good for everyone else. What’s to stop me then?

I fear the world you present to us here is bereft of any real empathy. Really, think about it.
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Uh no - I am the top bully. I have more power than you, so what I think and do are right. I really do not care what you think. I have the power. So my truth is the truth you will live by.
 
**Another Oops? What does it mean when something repeats itself?:hmmm:
**

How Big A Role Does Chance Play In The History Of Life?

ScienceDaily (June 23, 2009) — If the broad evolutionary diversification a group of organisms were repeated by a few species in a single genus tens of millions of years after the group’s initial diversification, what would that say about the roles of contingency, constraint, and adaptation?

more…
 
buffalo said:
Another Oops? What does it mean when something repeats itself?:hmmm:

How Big A Role Does Chance Play In The History Of Life?

ScienceDaily (June 23, 2009) — If the broad evolutionary diversification a group of organisms were repeated by a few species in a single genus tens of millions of years after the group’s initial diversification, what would that say about the roles of contingency, constraint, and adaptation?

more…
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Quite amazing. For a minute I thought that was a creationist site.

What is remarkable is that the molecular genealogy of the living species shows their origin only 15 million years ago, with the same trajectory as in the distant past! Evidence suggests that trajectory has occurred again and again in other groups. The authors argue that the original trajectory was highly contingent on a set of initial conditions, but that given the possibilities afforded by time, a genetic background would arise (like flipping a coin long enough to achieve 10 heads or tails in a row) that was visible to natural selection, most likely driven by predation. Acting together, the eventual realization of a particular genetic and developmental channel, and natural selection opened the way for an adaptive solution.

I love that analogy with the coin flip. 🙂 Ok, it’s not just 10 times in a row. More like a million times – and it’s not a two-sided coin either.
The “explanation” for this phenomenon is a classic case of imaginary Darwinian just-so-stories. “Given enough time …”
 
reggieM said:
You believe something for which you have no scientific evidence (that empathy corresponds with and is founded in truth). You cannot defend it as being true. It’s an invisible quality that could be a fantasy. It’s your own “magic” substance which you believe in.

Not only that it may be incorrect, but you have no scientific proof or evidence to verify that it is correct at all. You believe something, with no scientific evidence, that may be totally false. You claimed that the truth is more important than feelings, but here you believe something which may be false, based on your feelings.

You claim that science is the best means to understanding the universe. But here you have a belief with zero scientific evidence to support it. So clearly, there is something better than science – and you have used it to create your personal belief.
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But i DONT claim it as absolute truth, and it has NOTHING to do with understanding the cosmos, so what is your issue?
 
reggieM said:
Please explain that statement with regards to evolution and the existence of God.
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You claim the existence of a god, and you claim it as absolute truth. This has blinded you to logic and reason, to the point where you deny all the evidence and claim that we were poofed into existence by “god”. Now i couldn’t care less what you want to believe, but i guarantee if you had children you would teach them the same crazy nonsense. That IMO is akin to child abuse, and that i do care about.
 
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