Has te Church ever practiced forced conversions?

[JDGaney]

Pope Innocent III pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:

…does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. … [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined.[3]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[TheDoors]

Pope Innocent III pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:

…does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. … [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined.[3]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

The Church has always had it’s dark moments, but I’m afraid you won’t find us in the East any more white than our brothers in the West. Many of the Slav people were forced to convert when their king converted. This is what happens when we rely on the ways of Man to try and do the will of God, thinking that we know better. Remember, we are the lamp. A lamp forced on someone will only cause them injury and to fear light, but a lamp set up as a patient guide will light the way for many.

 

[JM3]

Pope Innocent III pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:

…does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. … [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined.[3]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

I don’t know where you read this, but here is what Pope Innocent III said:

onetruecatholicfaith.com/Roman-Catholic-Dogma.php?id=20&title=Denzinger+402±+500&page=1

411 This is contrary to the Christian religion, that anyone always unwilling and interiorly objecting be compelled to receive and to observe Christianity. On this account some absurdly do not distinguish between unwilling and unwilling, and forced and forced, because he who is violently forced by terrors and punishments, and, lest he incur harm, receives the sacrament of baptism, such a one also as he who under pretense approaches baptism, receives the impressed sign of Christianity, and he himself, just as he willed conditionally although not absolutely, must be forced to the observance of Christian Faith. . . . But he who never consents, but inwardly contradicts, receives neither the matter nor the sign of the sacrament, because to contradict expressly is more than not to agree. . . . The sleeping, moreover, and the weak-minded, if before they incurred weak-mindedness, or before they went to sleep persisted in contradiction, because in these the idea of contradiction is understood to endure, although they have been so immersed, they do not receive the sign of the sacrament; not so, however, if they had first lived as catechumens and had the intention of being baptized; therefore, the Church has been accustomed to baptize such in a time of necessity. Thus, then the sacramental operation impresses the sign, when it does not meet the resisting obstacle of a contrary will.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

A combination of your quote and and JM3’s quote makes it sound as though he opposed the practice but was trying to explore the effects of such a forced baptism of people who weren’t willing at all, or were sort of willing (what that means would probably require the …'s filled in).

That said, even if he was absolutely perfect on the issue, there are many sinners in the Church, and many terrible Popes. Even St. Peter denied Christ 3 times, so there is no reason to expect (hope yes, expect no) that all our popes will be exceptionally holy people. The only way to escape from all sinners would be to become a hermit on a desert island, and even that wouldn’t work because we’d still have our own company.

 

[Bezant]

Pope Innocent III pronounced in 1201 that even if torture and intimidation had been employed in receiving the sacrament, one nevertheless:

…does receive the impress of Christianity and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling. … [For] the grace of Baptism had been received, and they had been anointed with the sacred oil, and had participated in the body of the Lord, they might properly be forced to hold to the faith which they had accepted perforce, lest the name of the Lord be blasphemed, and lest they hold in contempt and consider vile the faith they had joined.[3]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

Hello JD,

The detailed response to this question should be qualified, but in a short answer, yeah.

But as history will show you, the grass isn’t always (and generally isn’t) greener on the other side. We are all, of course, humans. If you intend to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, better to do it out of a conviction for Orthodoxy, than disgust for the bad things the Catholic Church has done.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Did he approve of forced conversions? I’m on the verge of leaving Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy.

Even if this were 100% true, would you leave Christ’s Church based on the sin of a member? Or is your faith founded on something other than the sins of the members? You see?

 

[Sarcelle]

The Church has always had it’s dark moments, but I’m afraid you won’t find us in the East any more white than our brothers in the West. Many of the Slav people were forced to convert when their king converted. This is what happens when we rely on the ways of Man to try and do the will of God, thinking that we know better. Remember, we are the lamp. A lamp forced on someone will only cause them injury and to fear light, but a lamp set up as a patient guide will light the way for many.

As St. Paul said, “For we have all sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.”