Has the Catholic Church’s stance and marriage, divorce and the requirement to be married in the Church, been the main reason that some here, have not

[Jimmy_B]

Has the Catholic Church’s stance and marriage, divorce and the requirement to be married in the Church, been the main reason that some here, have not converted or reverted to Catholicism?

I asked this question, because I have met people who have claimed to disagree with Catholicism, base on theology and I know that, even if they did agree with Catholicism they would not be able to practice as a Catholic, without overcoming some difficult hurdles.

In other words, some say that they don’t want to be Catholic, when in reality, they cannot be Catholic…unless they make some changes in their lives and in some cases, some pretty drastic changes.

Am I wrong?

 

[jdnrite01]

In other words, some say that they don’t want to be Catholic, when in reality, they cannot be Catholic…unless they make some changes in their lives and in some cases, some pretty drastic changes.

I think that you’re right on target. That doesn’t mean, however, that the Church can change its position, or even that it should soften it in any manner.

It’s another instance of people adjusting their conscience to beliefs they like rather than adhering to moral authority.

 

[Cathdefender]

I simply feel it’s people that try to avoid the hard doctrinal and moral truths the CC offers them because hard truths demand lives be changed.

 

[Sublime_Prince]

Well one thing I admire about the Catholic Church is how they try to stay to Gods laws rather than adopting a feel good attitude many protestand denominations have done.

I unfortunately think many people have left the catholic church because of divorce and the catholics stance on it, wether they admit it or not.

I have known several women who seem to have left the church after they were divorced. They claim it was for other reasons they left, but reading between the lines I can clearly see divorce had a big impact on their decision.

I look at the divorce rate in the my country and feel awful. People don’t take marriage seriously anymore it seems. And the phrase “until death do us part” means nothing.

After saying all this there are protestants that are very strict about marriage. So one does not have to be catholic to preserve what marriage use to be.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I think that you’re right on target. That doesn’t mean, however, that the Church can change its position, or even that it should soften it in any manner.

It’s another instance of people adjusting their conscience to beliefs they like rather than adhering to moral authority.

Thank you, I agree…

I believe that there are many here who will never admit this, even if it were true.

I would like to add, that I don’t think that there are very many hurdles that cannot be overcome. In some cases, all a “former Catholic” has to do to begin receiving communion again, is to go to confession.

Additionally, the Catholic Church does not cause “hurdles”; they are, in many cases, caused by the person’s own behavior, which may have been in conflict with Catholicism.

If anyone has any questions regarding this issue, I recommend calling you local Catholic parish and setting up and appointment to see a priest.

Peace.

 

[puzzleannie]

Has the Catholic Church’s stance and marriage, divorce and the requirement to be married in the Church, been the main reason that some here, have not converted or reverted to Catholicism?

I?

I have no doubt this is true, and no doubt it is the reason why many Catholics have fallen away from practice of the faith. I am sure most of us could name many people close to us who fit either of these descriptions.

I do know from many years experience in RCIA that issues related to marriage are the primary source of difficulty and snags in bringing people into full communion with the Church. That is not to say I think the Church should change, au contraire, I think Church teaching on marriage, sexuality and family should be more strongly, completely and courageously taught. However, the ignorance on these issues is simply monumental, including and especially on the part of people who should know better and who are in a position to influence and guide younger Catholics.

conversion and reversion require just that, deep, profound radical change in mind, heart and life, and it is a narrow road, as Christ warns us.

 

[Jimmy_B]

I have no doubt this is true, and no doubt it is the reason why many Catholics have fallen away from practice of the faith. I am sure most of us could name many people close to us who fit either of these descriptions.

I do know from many years experience in RCIA that issues related to marriage are the primary source of difficulty and snags in bringing people into full communion with the Church.

Thankfully, we have people like you who are involved in RCIA and are there to help those who have run into “snags”.

Thank you!

 

[puzzleannie]

Thankfully, we have people like you who are involved in RCIA and are there to help those who have run into “snags”.

Thank you!

I can’t be much help since I don’t have the knowledge-- they must be referred to the priest or deacon, and cannot continue their preparation for the initiation sacraments unless and until the pastor gives permission, and lets me know the problem has been addressed.

 

[onetimeposter]

I was a lapsed Catholic ( Christian for that matter) when I married my Protestant wife in a Protestant Church.

Shortly afterwards, I found my way back to Church and my wife eagerly converted.

I am very disappointed that my Church believes that I have an invalid marriage and that I am living in mortal sin.

I do not have an invalid marriage, I was married in a Church and my marriage was blessed by a Protestant minister!

It’s kind of sad that my Church won’t accept me. I’m just now, literally this week coming to terms with this.

I just can’t picture Jesus walking up to me and telling me that I’m a sinner for marrying in a Protestant Church, especially where I was at that time of my life in relation to my faith?!

It also bothers me that before Vatican II, Catholics marrying outside the Church were excommunicated, now today, they are not excommunicated…the rules changed…so the rules will likely change again?! That is frustrating, as it tells me clearly that these are seemingly man made bureaucratic rules.

Time will tell where I end up.

 

[monorail]

I am very disappointed that my Church believes that I have an invalid marriage and that I am living in mortal sin.

Can’t you just get your marriage blessed?

 

[athansor]

It’s a part of it for me. I married a non-Catholic in the Catholic church (he was married before, but didn’t need to get an annulment because he married a Catholic outside of the Catholic Church…of course, we only found that out after we went through the process). We divorced (no kids), and I later married a non-Catholic in an Episcopal Church. We are the parents of two small children.

So, to get back in the good graces of the Catholic Church, I would first have to contact the ex-husband, and convince him to go through the process of the annulment. (he’s really mad at the Church, because when we tried to get the annulment we didn’t end up needing, he was told that it would only be considered if he did some contracting work (building and framing work that they couldn’t get a permit for) on the Church’s education building.
Even if he was interested, I’d also have to convince my current husband that we needed to live chastely for as many months or years as it takes to get an annulment. Since he’s not interested in the Church, he doesn’t see why he needs to do this.

Realistically, if I wanted to do it bad enough, I guess I would. However, I feel like the Church I loved growing up has changed and I don’t really feel at home anymore.

 

[deb1]

It’s a part of it for me. I married a non-Catholic in the Catholic church (he was married before, but didn’t need to get an annulment because he married a Catholic outside of the Catholic Church…of course, we only found that out after we went through the process). We divorced (no kids), and I later married a non-Catholic in an Episcopal Church. We are the parents of two small children.

So, to get back in the good graces of the Catholic Church, I would first have to contact the ex-husband, and convince him to go through the process of the annulment. (he’s really mad at the Church, because when we tried to get the annulment we didn’t end up needing, he was told that it would only be considered if he did some contracting work (building and framing work that they couldn’t get a permit for) on the Church’s education building.
Even if he was interested, I’d also have to convince my current husband that we needed to live chastely for as many months or years as it takes to get an annulment. Since he’s not interested in the Church, he doesn’t see why he needs to do this.

Realistically, if I wanted to do it bad enough, I guess I would. However, I feel like the Church I loved growing up has changed and I don’t really feel at home anymore.

I have sympathy for your plight but also puzzlement. Why would going without sex for a few months be so horrible? My husband went to Afghanistan for six months and I know army couples who are apart much longer. It would seem to me that people who love one another could sustain if they thought that it would benefit their souls. I am not trying to judge you, but I am trying to understand.

Also, I don’t see how the Church has changed. Even when I was a Protestant, I knew that getting an annulment for Catholics was difficult.How are some Catholics suddenly surprised by this? I am serious with this question and not being sarcastic. Were you not taught the Catholic view on marriage or did you not have an adequate marriage prep before your wedding?

Just curious, I have heard that Catholics have to pay to cover the costs that goes into getting an annulement. Was the work that your first husband did on the roof of the Church to cover the cost of the annulement? If so, that seems fair to me.

 

[athansor]

I have sympathy for your plight but also puzzlement. Why would going without sex for a few months be so horrible? My husband went to Afghanistan for six months and I know army couples who are apart much longer. It would seem to me that people who love one another could sustain if they thought that it would benefit their souls. I am not trying to judge you, but I am trying to understand.

Well, if it was just me, abstaining because it was something I believed was right to do, then it would be different. However, it doesn’t seem fair to a spouse who is not a member or believer of the Catholic faith and its teachings on these issues. If it damages our marriage by forcing my spouse into this, then that seems like a bigger problem, especially as we have two young kids. Also, I’m sure that there is no guarantee for annulments, so what happens to our marriage if the annulment is denied after we’ve gone through the process? What does that mean for our children?

Also, I don’t see how the Church has changed. Even when I was a Protestant, I knew that getting an annulment for Catholics was difficult.How are some Catholics suddenly surprised by this? I am serious with this question and not being sarcastic. Were you not taught the Catholic view on marriage or did you not have an adequate marriage prep before your wedding?

I probably wasn’t very clear here…I don’t mean the church changed in the area of annulments, etc. I just grew up in a Church that was very involved in liberation theology, and my personal views with regard to economics and social justice as pretty far to the left. I see the Church, especially in the US, moving towards a more right-of-center position with regards to economics, immigration, war etc. I grew up with admiring people like Bishop Romero, Dorothy Day, Fr. Berrigan, and so on. I feel like that side of Catholicism is fading away, and that’s part of why I felt drawn to the Episcopal faith.

Just curious, I have heard that Catholics have to pay to cover the costs that goes into getting an annulement. Was the work that your first husband did on the roof of the Church to cover the cost of the annulement? If so, that seems fair to me.

No, in our case it was two different things, we paid the money for the annulment…the issue was that the work he was asked to perform was problematic (something to do with codes and inspections).

 

[Jimmy_B]

Has the Catholic Church’s stance on marriage, divorce and the requirement to be married in the Church, been the main reason that some here, have not converted or reverted to Catholicism?

I asked this question, because I have met people who have claimed to disagree with Catholicism, base on theology and I know that, even if they did agree with Catholicism they would not be able to practice as a Catholic, without overcoming some difficult hurdles.

In other words, some say that they don’t want to be Catholic, when in reality, they cannot be Catholic…unless they make some changes in their lives and in some cases, some pretty drastic changes.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Well, if it was just me, abstaining because it was something I believed was right to do, then it would be different. However, it doesn’t seem fair to a spouse who is not a member or believer of the Catholic faith and its teachings on these issues. If it damages our marriage by forcing my spouse into this, then that seems like a bigger problem, especially as we have two young kids. Also, I’m sure that there is no guarantee for annulments, so what happens to our marriage if the annulment is denied after we’ve gone through the process? What does that mean for our children?
Well, you could explain to your husband that this is important to you and ask if he would be willing to abstain from sex for awhile. If he can’t agree, you can proceed with the process anyway. If the annulment is denied you are in the same situation you were before. You are legally married and the church considers your children to be legitimate. They can be admitted into the church if you go to mass regularly and raise them Catholic.

I probably wasn’t very clear here…I don’t mean the church changed in the area of annulments, etc. I just grew up in a Church that was very involved in liberation theology, and my personal views with regard to economics and social justice as pretty far to the left. I see the Church, especially in the US, moving towards a more right-of-center position with regards to economics, immigration, war etc. I grew up with admiring people like Bishop Romero, Dorothy Day, Fr. Berrigan, and so on. I feel like that side of Catholicism is fading away, and that’s part of why I felt drawn to the Episcopal faith.
The people you mention are still church heroes. In immigration anyway the church is on the side of the immigrants. The people in the pews are still divided on some of these issues, but they were divided in the past too.

No, in our case it was two different things, we paid the money for the annulment…the issue was that the work he was asked to perform was problematic (something to do with codes and inspections).
That is outrageous!

 

[Claire_from_DE]

So, to get back in the good graces of the Catholic Church, I would first have to contact the ex-husband, and convince him to go through the process of the annulment.

The tribunal would contact the ex-husband. Even without his cooperation, the process can still take place.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I was a lapsed Catholic ( Christian for that matter) when I married my Protestant wife in a Protestant Church.

Shortly afterwards, I found my way back to Church and my wife eagerly converted.
When your wife converted. you would ordinarily have privately renewed your marriage vows before the priest shortly after she came into the church. How is it that that wasn’t done?

I am very disappointed that my Church believes that I have an invalid marriage and that I am living in mortal sin.
Whether you sinned mortally when you married outside the church depends on your state of mind at the time and if you knew it was sinful for a Catholic not to obey the marriage laws of the church. Since you (and now your wife) are Catholic you would be sinning if you refused to receive the sacrament of matrimony in the church and continued to live without it.

I do not have an invalid marriage, I was married in a Church and my marriage was blessed by a Protestant minister!
The church accepts that your marriage is legal. As a Catholic, you were required to be married in the Catholic church or to get a dispensation to be married in a protestant church in order for the marriage to be a valid sacrament of matrimony. Since you didn’t do this, the church want you to have this sacrament as well as being married legally.

It’s kind of sad that my Church won’t accept me. I’m just now, literally this week coming to terms with this.
The church does accept you.

I just can’t picture Jesus walking up to me and telling me that I’m a sinner for marrying in a Protestant Church, especially where I was at that time of my life in relation to my faith?!
Of course not, neither does the church. All you have to do to return to a full practice of the faith is to go to confession and renew your marriage vows privately before the priest.

It also bothers me that before Vatican II, Catholics marrying outside the Church were excommunicated, now today, they are not excommunicated…the rules changed…so the rules will likely change again?! That is frustrating, as it tells me clearly that these are seemingly man made bureaucratic rules.
Before, If a Catholic knowingly and willfully entered into an invalid marriage, it was a serious sin and the penalty of excommunication was automatically attached. Today it is still a serious sin but the person isn’t automatically excommunicated. Excommunication is a canon law penalty that doesn’t seem to mean much to people today. Catholics are still obliged to follow the marriage laws of the church under pain of sin. That is one of the ‘precepts of the church’ you may have memorized in catechism class.

Time will tell where I end up.
This issue of a valid sacrament of matrimony must have come as a surprise to you but the problem is easy to correct. I hope you end up still in the Church with the rest of us. /quote]

 

[Jimmy_B]

Reading some of these posts, these do not seem like insurmountable obstacles to me….I hope and pray that those here… do the right thing.