Has the chapter:verse convention led people astray?

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StTommyMore said:
Absolutely correct. I was introduced to Christianity by way of the “Romans Road” which is dependent on taking verses out of context.
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Ah, the old “salvation in a tract” sequence. I remember that! For those unfamiliar with it, the Roman Road is a collection of single verses from the book of Romans that are usually found at the end of Chick tracts, but sometimes in Bibles or other books, that show people how to get “saved”. It goes something like this:
  1. Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
  2. Romans 6:23a “…The wages of sin is death…”
  3. Romans 6:23b “…But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
  4. Romans 5:8, “God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!”
  5. Romans 10:13 “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!”
  6. Romans 10:9,10 “…If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
  7. Revelation 3:20a “Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him…”
Apparently, just knowing those 7 verses is enough for even the worst sinner to get saved and stay that way.
 
twinc said:
of course scripture does say “remove the beam from thine own eye” or as near as that that makes no difference - you keep on harping on how to read a/the whole book through at once and no longer study the bible and here you do greatly err for we are in fact advised to search and study the scriptures and not to just read it,by Christ,St.Paul and the Church - anyway what does Jn.3:16 say that negates what is said at Jn.3:15 - btw the apparent contradiction with James is not a non issue.James it seems was a by works believing Jew and so acceptable by the Jews as Bishop of Jerusalem.It was it seems that only just before his death,which was after he wrote his by works epistle that he proclaimed and accepted Jesus as the door or way.It was because of this that he was hurled from the temple pinnacle to his death and final bludgeoning to death by a fullers staff - twinc
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But your point is that James and his epistle are in error?
 
inocente said:
What’s the equivalent nickname for Catholics, or would you find that offensive, antagonistic and demeaning? Just wondering.
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I apologize if I offended. I certainly was not trying to. As I said, I am from a Protestant background. I would not be offended at a shortening of the name of a label that really has nothing to do with anything. Now, if someone had called me a “Christ-ie” or something… Or how about a Lutheran? To call any Protestant a Lutheran wouldn’t technically be wrong, would it? The spirit is the same. The spirit of division.
 
Vixit said:
Ah, the old “salvation in a tract” sequence. I remember that! For those unfamiliar with it, the Roman Road is a collection of single verses from the book of Romans that are usually found at the end of Chick tracts, but sometimes in Bibles or other books, that show people how to get “saved”. It goes something like this:
  1. Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
  2. Romans 6:23a “…The wages of sin is death…”
  3. Romans 6:23b “…But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
  4. Romans 5:8, “God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!”
  5. Romans 10:13 “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!”
  6. Romans 10:9,10 “…If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
  7. Revelation 3:20a “Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him…”
Apparently, just knowing those 7 verses is enough for even the worst sinner to get saved and stay that way.
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i actually critiqued it here.
 
twinc said:
of course scripture does say “remove the beam from thine own eye” or as near as that that makes no difference - you keep on harping on how to read a/the whole book through at once and no longer study the bible and here you do greatly err for we are in fact advised to search and study the scriptures and not to just read it,by Christ,St.Paul and the Church - anyway what does Jn.3:16 say that negates what is said at Jn.3:15 - btw the apparent contradiction with James is not a non issue.James it seems was a by works believing Jew and so acceptable by the Jews as Bishop of Jerusalem.It was it seems that only just before his death,which was after he wrote his by works epistle that he proclaimed and accepted Jesus as the door or way.It was because of this that he was hurled from the temple pinnacle to his death and final bludgeoning to death by a fullers staff - twinc
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The apparent contradiction between Romans and James is in these two verses:
  • For we account a man to be **justified by faith, without the works **of the law. Romans 3:28.
  • Do you see that **by works a man is justified, and not by faith **only? James 2:24.
I don’t know the difference between reading and searching but apparently there’s a difference for you. All I know is the fruits of Protestant “searching”: a religion of isolated proof texts, a heap of unmortared bricks supposed to be a “building” that gets torn down and repiled every time someone changes his mind.
 
Vixit said:
Oh, wow, that’s where I found it with a Google search! Nice.
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You found the original or my critique?
If you found my blog, I am duly impressed! I never realized it was on Google’s radar
 
Apollos said:
The apparent contradiction between Romans and James is in these two verses:
  • For we account a man to be **justified by faith, without the works **of the law. Romans 3:28.
  • Do you see that **by works a man is justified, and not by faith **only? James 2:24.
I don’t know the difference between reading and searching but apparently there’s a difference for you. All I know is the fruits of Protestant “searching”: a religion of isolated proof texts, a heap of unmortared bricks supposed to be a “building” that gets torn down and repiled every time someone changes his mind.
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I say again instead of faulting and flaying Protestants and Protestantism lets remove the beam of division and dissent in our own rank and file - one needs go no further than on these forums - twinc
 
twinc said:
I say again instead of faulting and flaying Protestants and Protestantism lets remove the beam of division and dissent in our own rank and file - one needs go no further than on these forums - twinc
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Actually both issues need to be addressed
 
Vixit said:
I apologize if I offended
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It’s fine, no problem but you can imagine where it may lead if we all start inventing labels.
Vixit said:
Ah, the old “salvation in a tract” sequence. I remember that! For those unfamiliar with it, the Roman Road is a collection of single verses from the book of Romans that are usually found at the end of Chick tracts
Click to expand...
Never heard of Chick tracts before. They’re online, so I looked at a couple. Hilarious. At the end of one of them is the question “Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior” with two tick boxes! Another has a granny saying “Stop believing Satan’s lies … Trust Christ today!” like she’s advertising washing powder. Oh, and the only True Bible™ is the KJV.
 
inocente said:
Never heard of Chick tracts before. They’re online, so I looked at a couple. Hilarious. At the end of one of them is the question “Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior” with two tick boxes! Another has a granny saying “Stop believing Satan’s lies … Trust Christ today!” like she’s advertising washing powder. Oh, and the only True Bible™ is the KJV.
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When I was a Baptist, I think our congregation was the regional distributor for that lunacy.
 
StTommyMore said:
i actually critiqued it here.
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Looked at your blog, never having seen the Roman Road before. You ask for comments there - one thing you may like to add is how incredibly self-centered it is, like some convenient drive-thru self-improvement while you are waiting for your burger to be served.
 
inocente said:
What, like your ex-church had a franchise?
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I was trying to be funny. We did have a rack full of his stuff (especially the anti-Catholic ones), and handfuls were given out when we wen’t “Soul-winning”
 
inocente said:
It’s fine, no problem but you can imagine where it may lead if we all start inventing labels.

Never heard of Chick tracts before. They’re online, so I looked at a couple. Hilarious. At the end of one of them is the question “Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior” with two tick boxes! Another has a granny saying “Stop believing Satan’s lies … Trust Christ today!” like she’s advertising washing powder. Oh, and the only True Bible™ is the KJV.
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I’ve met many of the “True Bible” buffs. Some of them have even started to speak like the KJV, knowest thou what I mean? But they aren’t in any one denomination. Then there are the “Bible believers” who gladly use paraphrase translations like “The Message” Bible, which is just written by some guy, and is full of error even by Protestant standards.
 
inocente said:
It’s fine, no problem but you can imagine where it may lead if we all start inventing labels.

Never heard of Chick tracts before. They’re online, so I looked at a couple. Hilarious. At the end of one of them is the question “Did you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Savior” with two tick boxes! Another has a granny saying “Stop believing Satan’s lies … Trust Christ today!” like she’s advertising washing powder. Oh, and the only True Bible™ is the KJV.
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It is an instant gratification sort of faith. I think what finally drove me from the Baptist church, was the feeling of never being ‘complete’ or ‘finished’. The preacher would get up every Sunday and say, “You have to get saved! You must get saved! Get saved now!” Same thing EVERY WEEK. Well, it got to the point that I thought, “I DID get saved. Surely there must be something more? Surely my spiritual leader has more to say than just ‘get saved’? What comes next? What happens when I feel like I have lost faith? What happens when I’m confused or scared?” Well, the only option seemed, to most people, to go down for another ‘altar call’ and “re-commit to Jesus”, cuz the first savin’ obviously didn’t take. Protestantism, to me, is dangerous for the soul, because people actually believe they can get saved and stay that way with no effort, and, once ‘saved’, they really don’t offer any advice on how to remain in God’s grace or to live a healthy Christian life. At least, to me it seemed that way.
 
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