A silly fabrication once again. Funny how this poster has learned nothing from the facts offered and continues with his fantasy.
Post #36: “Certainly Christ’s Church was not empowered by Him to decide scientific questions, as St Augustine had said more than a thousand years before, and a tribunal calling the theory ‘false and absurd’ was wrong.”
**Since a “decree” is neither a dogma nor even a doctrine, and as the authority of the Holy Office does not extend to infallible pronouncements, there is no “fact” of heresy pronounced by any Pope concerning Galileo. **
Darwin’s bulldog, Thomas Huxley, “went to Rome and examined the Case, a little more thoroughly than the average humanist, probably intending to use it in his ongoing controversy with the Anglican bishop, Samuel Wilberforce. In a letter written to Mivart in 1885 he concluded, rather disappointedly, I presume – ‘I looked into the matter when I was in Italy and I arrived at the conclusion that the Pope and the College of Cardinals had rather the best of it.’ ”
[Arthur Koestler, *The Sleepwalkers
, MacMillan, 1959, p 353; cited in
The Six Days of Creation, Br Thomas Mary Sennott, Ravengate, 1984, p185-6].
Galileo was, in the 1633 Decree of the Inquisition, censured as “vehemently suspected of heresy.” No papal declaration of heresy was made.
In his multivolume
A History of Christendom, Vol. 4 *The Cleaving of Christendom *(Christendom Press, 2000), Dr Warren H Carroll writes that the 1615 decree against Galileo as published by the eleven theologians of the Inquisition did not declare his teaching “heretical”. He cites Broderick’s
Robert Bellarmine, p 372. In fact, Pope Urban VIII declared that the Copernican theory was not heretical (p 540, citing von Pastor’s
History of the Popes). Galileo was never declared a heretic by any Pope, or Ecumenical Council – by Christ’s Church which gave Galileo a fair hearing.
See Catholic Answers:
catholic.com/library/Galileo_Controversy.asp
“The Church has never claimed ordinary tribunals, such as the one that judged Galileo, to be infallible. Church tribunals have disciplinary and juridical authority only; neither they nor their decisions are infallible.
“No ecumenical council met concerning Galileo, and the pope was not at the center of the discussions, which were handled by the Holy Office. When the Holy Office finished its work, Urban VIII ratified its verdict, but did not attempt to engage infallibility.”
The Church enabled the development of science, as part of how She built Western civilization.
Learn something about the Galileo case from you or your references Abu, not in a million years.
Let me list your errors here.
First you guys always quote St Augustine who rightly said if clear proof for something contradicted an interpretation of Scripture it should be discarded. But what proof is there for a fixed sun/moving earth? It was decreed formal heresy. Thus let us see what St Thomas said when it comes to any such clashes as the Galileo case.
‘
The knowledge proper to this science of theology comes through divine revelation and not through natural reason. Therefore, it has no concern to prove principles of other sciences, but only to judge them. Whatever is found in other sciences contrary to any truth of this science of theology must be condemned as false.’ — (ST, I, Q 1, a 6, ad 2).
The 1616 papal decree defined and declared formal heresy. Thus by way of Pope Paul V formal heresy was defined. The next pope Urban VIII publicly declared it was immutable. Now you can deny the minutes of the case all you like, but the facts are here.
How does the Huxley quote help you abu, I totally agree with him.
The Formal heresy (contrary to dogma) was defined in 1616 not 1633. Galileo, because he denied under oath he held the heresy - while his book dialogue showed he did support the herest, could only be found suspect of heresy. Here again abu you rubber stamp my facts on heresy.
Dr Warren H Carroll doesn’t even get his date correct, the decree was in 1616 not 1615. In his reference to no heresy he must mean the ‘contrary to Scripture’ language used. But surely Carroll knows ‘contrary to Scripture’ is formal heresy.
‘Pope Urban VIII declared that the Copernican theory was not heretical (p 540, citing von Pastor’s History of the Popes)’ This is a joke. Here from the minutes of Galileo’s trial the order of Urban VIII:
’ “**Invoking, then, the most holy Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that of His most glorious Mother Mary ever Virgin, by this our definitive sentence we say, pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo, on account of these things proved against you by documentary evidence, and which have been confessed by you as aforesaid, have rendered yourself to this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, that is, of having believed and held a doctrine which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures -to wit, that the sun is in the centre of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth moves, and is not the centre of the universe; **and that an opinion can be held and defended as probable after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to Holy Scripture [immutable] **. **’
‘Whereas ‘tribunals’ may be ordinary, there was nothing ‘ordinary’ about the Holy Office’ founded to examing matters of serious heresy with the pope as Prefect.’
Urban III decided every word in Galileo’s trial. What do you mean ‘he never attempted to engage his infallibility.’ Did he say, ‘I do not engage my infallibility’? Engage his infallibility as regards what? Pope Urban Viii did not define the 1616 decree, he merely interpreted it as ‘immutible’, that is ‘irreversable’, that is PERMANENT.
Pope Paul V and Pope Urban VIII monitored and decided EVERY WORD OF GALILEO’S TRIAL.
