Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?

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TheAmazingGrace said:
Then don’t assume: ask.
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No. That’s no way to live a life, in fear and constant caution. It just sucks the joy out of everything. Men touch me casually every day - a pat on the shoulder, a quick hug from those who are genuine friends, even a kiss on the cheek. If it got to be “too much,” I’d just say, “Okay, enough.” The men I know never take it that far. I tend to associate with gentlemen.
 
pnewton said:
Now, while I understand that some more fragile types are especially sensitive, I would suggest a good regiment of self-defense can help one be empowered much more than signing some petition, not that the to are mutually exclusive. It takes longer, and requires more discipline, but the payout is big.
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I guess that’s part of why I’m not a feminist in any way. I’ve always felt empowered and in control. And yet, a husky six-year-old could probably take me down. But I’ve never felt fear, even when walking at night through questionable areas, and I have no self-defense skills.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
Since you don’t want men opening doors for you, don’t you think you should refrain from opening doors, etc. for them? Like you, they may consider it harassment. We’re different genders, nor different species.
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There’s a pretty big difference between opening a door and touching me without my consent. Doors are just polite.
ConstantLearner said:
No. That’s no way to live a life, in fear and constant caution. It just sucks the joy out of everything. Men touch me casually every day - a pat on the shoulder, a quick hug from those who are genuine friends, even a kiss on the cheek. If it got to be “too much,” I’d just say, “Okay, enough.” The men I know never take it that far. I tend to associate with gentlemen.
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See, most of the men I’ve been complaining about aren’t individuals I’d say I’m choosing to associate with. They’re the random guy at the bus stop who thinks it’s some sort of personal insult that I won’t go out with him and keeps pestering me to change my mind. Or the coworker that none of us can figure out how he still has a job, but that was the only place in town hiring. Those are people I have to deal with even if I would never in a million years want anything to do with them.
 
ConstantLearner said:
No. That’s no way to live a life, in fear and constant caution. It just sucks the joy out of everything. Men touch me casually every day - a pat on the shoulder, a quick hug from those who are genuine friends, even a kiss on the cheek. If it got to be “too much,” I’d just say, “Okay, enough.” The men I know never take it that far. I tend to associate with gentlemen.
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It’s different if you have an established rapport with someone. You need to remember that not everyone is as comfortable with getting touched as you seem to be. Some women have a history of abuse, some are autistic/touch sensitive, and some just place high value on personal space.
 
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The problem is, those boundaries change from woman-to-woman.

No, that isn’t a problem; you can always just ask. The problem is when those boundaries change retroactively.
 
DarkLight said:
See, most of the men I’ve been complaining about aren’t individuals I’d say I’m choosing to associate with. They’re the random guy at the bus stop who thinks it’s some sort of personal insult that I won’t go out with him and keeps pestering me to change my mind. Or the coworker that none of us can figure out how he still has a job, but that was the only place in town hiring. Those are people I have to deal with even if I would never in a million years want anything to do with them.
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WHERE do you live and work? Good grief! I live in West Hollywood, and I’ve only experienced that type of thing once. Once, when I was walking on Sunset (Blvd., not Plaza) two guys in a car slowed down and yelled something suggestive at me. I told them I wasn’t interested, and they moved on. And I’m not bad looking by a long shot and only in my 30s.
 
Werbenjagermanjensen said:
No, that isn’t a problem; you can always just ask. The problem is when those boundaries change retroactively.
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Fair enough, but it’s hard to have a meaningful conversation about that when we still have people insisting that there’s no need to ask at all.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
WHERE do you live and work? Good grief! I live in West Hollywood, and I’ve only experienced that type of thing once. Once, when I was walking on Sunset (Blvd., not Plaza) two guys in a car slowed down and yelled something suggestive at me. I told them I wasn’t interested, and they moved on. And I’m not bad looking by a long shot and only in my 30s.
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Most of this? Standard college town, lots of low income students, lots of 18 year olds who think they’re hot stuff.

Some also when I was younger, fairly typical suburb on the east coast (not going to disclose exactly where for the sake of privacy).

The workplace I mentioned was a Walmart in a decent area.

I’m approaching 30 but could easily pass for late teens to early 20’s.
 
Werbenjagermanjensen,

I would strongly suggest never typing the words “it was just the one time” without googling first. And if it’s a new accusation, I would give it a good 48 hours before deciding that it was “just the one time.”

I posted this previously in this thread, but here it is again (with detail):

www.chicagotribune.com

Timeline: Key events related to misconduct allegations against Al Franken

Key events related to allegations of sexual misconduct by Minnesota Democratic Sen. Al Franken: NOV. 16 A Los Angeles radio anchor accuses Franken of forcibly kissing her while they were rehearsing…
www.chicagotribune.com www.chicagotribune.com

Nov. 16

“A Los Angeles radio anchor accuses Franken of forcibly kissing her while they were rehearsing during a 2006 USO tour. KABC anchor Leeann Tweeden also made public a photo that shows Franken smiling, with his hands over her chest as if to grope her, as she slept.”

Nov. 20

" Lindsay Menz told CNN that Franken put his hand on her buttocks in 2010 while posing for a picture at the Minnesota State Fair. Franken was a senator at the time."

Nov. 23

“Two women who remained anonymous allege that Franken touched their buttocks during events for his first campaign for Senate.”

“He released expanded statements to the Star Tribune and Minnesota Public Radio saying he is a warm person who hugs people and has learned that “in some of those encounters, I crossed a line for some women — and I know that any number is too many.””

Nov. 30

“A fifth woman comes forward with an allegation. Army veteran Stephanie Kemplin, of Maineville, Ohio, tells CNN that Franken groped her during a USO Christmas tour in the Middle East in 2003. Kemplin, who was deployed to Kuwait at the time, said Frankencupped her right breast when she stood next to him for a photo.”

“A woman identified only as a former elected official in New England tells Jezebel that Franken attempted to give her a “wet, open-mouthed kiss” onstage at an event in 2006. The woman said she appeared on Franken’s radio show Air America and after the interview, she tried to shake his hand but he took it and leaned in for a kiss. She said she turned her head and he kissed her on the cheek.”

Dec. 6

“A seventh woman accuses Franken of sexual misconduct. According to Politico, the woman, a former Democratic congressional aide, said Franken tried to kiss her after a taping of his radio show in 2006. The woman, who wasn’t identified, says that after her boss left and she was collecting her belongings, Franken tried to kiss her, saying: “It’s my right as an entertainer.””

“An eighth woman comes forward to tell Politico that Franken groped her while posing for a photo at a party to celebrate Barack Obama’s first inauguration as president. Tina Dupuy told the publication that Franken grabbed a handful of flesh around her waist and squeezed at least twice.”

That’s a bit less obviously grope-y, but it’s a data point.

This isn’t in the article, but ere’s a photo of Franken doing his trademarked chest grab with Joy Behar:

www.breitbart.com

Al Franken Allegedly Grabbed Joy Behar's Breast at Comedy Central Roast for Rob Reiner (Photo)

'It was disappointing to hear this about Al Franken,' Behar said on 'The View' about a photo of Franken groping Leeann Tweeden.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com

Jan. 2, 2018

Franken officially leaves the Senate.

You have to be really, really careful before saying “it was just the one time.” You’ll notice that Franken has a very distinctive MO.
 
ConstantLearner said:
Since you don’t want men opening doors for you, don’t you think you should refrain from opening doors, etc. for them? Like you, they may consider it harassment. We’re different genders, nor different species.
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I can’t speak for DL, but I’m personally weirded out by the idea of door opening as some sort of highly-gendered activity.

Do men who go on and on about it never open doors for other men, and never get doors held by other men?
 
To be fair, you do kinda need one to have a baby, which was the original comment there.

That doesn’t mean we need to jump at whatever man wants to bed us though.
 
DarkLight said:
To be fair, you do kinda need one to have a baby, which was the original comment there.
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Her implication was that our rabid feminism would prevent us from having families, presumably because men are united in monolithic hatred of feminists. I brought up adoption to show that you can still be a mother without the active involvement of a man in your life.
 
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Point.

I’d say the fact that Xantippe is married and I have a boyfriend might also be evidence there though.
 
DarkLight said:
I’d say the fact that Xantippe is married and I have a boyfriend might also be evidence there though.
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Granted, I’ve been married for a long time and my views have been crystallizing the last several years, BUT I’ve never wanted casual touch from any adult, unless actually in a romantic relationship. I’m hugely creeped out by the idea of men-who-are-not-my-husband touching me for no good reason, and I think that’s not such a bad instinct for a wife to have.
 
I once had a male ultrasound tech (for the Very Personal kind of ultrasound) give me a hug after giving me the Very Personal Ultrasound.

Awkward doesn’t even describe it.

Edited to add: I don’t think there were any evil intentions and the tech was a non-native English speaker, so he might have been fumbling to find appropriate cultural expressions in a new culture. As I recall, first one male tech hugged me after the procedure and then the other hugged me.

Awkward!
 
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