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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Have you ever pushed a baby out of a tiny orifice in your body, bro?
Has the #MeToo movement become a witch-hunt to a significant degree?
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Xantippe
Guest
And yet the US TFR is still at 1.86. Kind of amazing, if you think about it.
I also have to point out that we recently hit a 75-year high for young people living with family:
“Almost 40 percent of young adults lived with their parents, step-parents, grandparents and other relatives last year, or the highest point in 75 years, according to data from real estate analytics company Trulia. The only time in U.S. history when the share has been higher was in 1940, when the U.S. economy was regaining its footing from the Great Depression and the year prior to the country’s entry into World War II.”
“The research echoes findings from the Pew Research Center earlier this year, which found that 32.1 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds lived at their parents’ homes in 2014, exceeding the 31.6 percent of young adults who were married or living with a partner in their own household. That marked a tipping point for the first time in modern history, since the norm for decades was for young adults to push out on their own after high school or college.”
So the answer to the question of, why aren’t young people marrying and having children may well be–because they’re broke, and if they married and had children, they’d literally be doing so in their mom’s basement.
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HarryStotle
Guest
No, but I had to endure being squeezed through that “tiny orifice,” sis. 'Twas no picnic as I recall.HarryStotle:
Have you ever pushed a baby out of a tiny orifice in your body, bro?
Ever had to work through extended back pains, rib cage injuries, broken bones, prolonged extreme anxiety, mental anguish for months on end where your child’s or parent’s life hung in the balance?
Spare me the indignation. Everyone suffers pain, some much more than others.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Oh wow, you’re such a hero for being born.
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Xantippe
Guest
Then why do we need to get worked up about the need to impose more pain on young people?
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HarryStotle
Guest
I assumed from his moniker, and from the fact that he is young with a great deal of common sense, that he wasn’t from this planet.
Was I wrong?
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Childbirth is some of the worst physical pain you can endure, and women go through it IN ADDITION to all the other requirements of parenthood. You have no right to judge women for not wanting to put themselves through that, especially if it’s something you were blessed to not have to go through.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Since when does “not shelter from” translate to “impose?”HarryStotle:
Then why do we need to get worked up about the need to impose more pain on young people?
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Also, you don’t remember being born.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
How do you define “not shelter from”?
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Xantippe
Guest
You just said that “everyone suffers pain.”
That means that even “snowflakes” suffer, too.
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HarryStotle
Guest
That would be unavoidable to an extent, but if you live your life determined to avoid it, that would be a whole 'nuther level of “avoid.”HarryStotle:
You just said that “everyone suffers pain.”
That means that even “snowflakes” suffer, too.
It also means a lowered tolerance for pain such that even trivial inconveniences are magnified beyond one’s capacity to put up with them.
First world problems.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Define “define.”
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
You’re deflecting.
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HarryStotle
Guest
It isn’t clear to me that you can extrapolate from “some of the worst physical pain,” to me (or men in general) not ever having suffered equal or worse. I am certain that being torn apart by shrapnel or a grenade on the battlefield would qualify as “being roughly in the same ballpark” as childbirth.HarryStotle:
Childbirth is some of the worst physical pain you can endure,
So, no women do not have a monopoly on suffering.
So, you are not denying that women today are “less willing” to tolerate the pain associated with childbirth compared to days past when some women birthed a dozen or more children without anaesthetics or epidurals?
My point, then, that people are less tolerant of suffering today, stands?
And that would imply that moral character is, at least to some extent, jeopardized by aversion to pain, suffering or even inconvenience?
One piece of evidence for that would be that women are willing, today, in large numbers to abort their babies rather than put up with the inconvenience or burden of having them. And women very often prefer the immoral option of abortion to abstinence, very likely because of a greater aversion to pain, suffering or sacrificing their own interests for another.
Which, by the way, also impinges on the idea (contra @Xantippe) that empathy is a poor moral guideline factor since relying on emotional states or on the unwillingness to put up with discomforting emotions often determines how and to whom empathy is shown, and the very nature of one’s empathy itself.
A well developed moral character can make proper use of empathy, but empathy doesn’t necessarily bring about a well-developed moral character.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Why are you acting like childbirth is a moral necessity for individual women?
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HarryStotle
Guest
Define “deflecting.”HarryStotle:
You’re deflecting.
Why is what I am doing “deflecting,” when what you did…
…is not?
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
Women have gotten torn apart by shrapnel, too. Men don’t have the monopoly on wartime suffering.
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TheAmazingGrace
Guest
A lot of the time the pressure to abort comes from husbands, boyfriends, and fathers. Abortion isn’t just a woman’s sin.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Never said it was a “moral necessity,” but I would say that women not having children BECAUSE they want to avoid suffering or inconvenience does have moral implications.HarryStotle:
Why are you acting like childbirth is a moral necessity for individual women?
See the difference between what I write, and what you read and think?
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