Has the new GIRM helped?

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Has the implementation of the new GIRM been of benefit?
In our parish, the GIRM seems to have given more license and NOT less for “innovation”.
 
It hasn’t been implemented yet in our diocese so it’s too early to tell.
 
although not complete yet, i think anything that gets us thinking is healthy… Trust in Rome… they have been at it along time… 👍
 
I don’t think our pastor really gives a darn about what the new GIRM says…
 
It’s created more disunity where I’m at in terms of people still sitting and a couple if any people standing when the priest says “Pray breatheren that my sacrifice…”

All these changes are creating mass confusion. Pun intended.
 
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Voice_Of_Reason:
It’s created more disunity where I’m at in terms of people still sitting and a couple if any people standing when the priest says “Pray breatheren that my sacrifice…”

All these changes are creating mass confusion. Pun intended.
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The only reason for the confusion is the fact that the Bishops and Priests have been working against Tradition and he faith for 30 years.

I don’t think it can be fixed. Restore the old mass so that remnant of the faithful might Christianize the world again.
 
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Agomemnon:
I don’t think it can be fixed. Restore the old mass so that remnant of the faithful might Christianize the world again.
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Wow, I can’t tell you how insulting that is for those of us who came into the Church under the “New Mass,” and who are faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium. It’s this kind of talk that makes me want to not attend a TLM/Indult/whatever it’s called: who wants to go watch a bunch of “more-Catholic-than-the-Pope” types sit around and congratulate themselves on their own holiness? The “New Mass” isn’t everywhere the pagan bacchanalia you people make it out to be. I’ve been a Catholic for 16 years, rec.into the Church in a Carmelite monastery, worshipped for years in a mission church on the Navajo Reservation, and then at a cathedral before moving out of New Mexico to Las Vegas and what would be called a standard, run-of-the-mill parish. Ya know, I’ve seen errors (that were corrected), but not mindless, stubborn “we’re going to do it our way” abuse. I’ve learned more about liturgical abuse on this site than I have in the entire time I’ve been Catholic. Your attitudes are souring the possibility for a lot of Catholics that they might want to attend a Indult Mass. Learn a little of Christ’s humility, why don’t you?
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Wow, I can’t tell you how insulting that is for those of us who came into the Church under the “New Mass,” and who are faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium. It’s this kind of talk that makes me want to not attend a TLM/Indult/whatever it’s called: who wants to go watch a bunch of “more-Catholic-than-the-Pope” types sit around and congratulate themselves on their own holiness? The “New Mass” isn’t everywhere the pagan bacchanalia you people make it out to be. I’ve been a Catholic for 16 years, rec.into the Church in a Carmelite monastery, worshipped for years in a mission church on the Navajo Reservation, and then at a cathedral before moving out of New Mexico to Las Vegas and what would be called a standard, run-of-the-mill parish. Ya know, I’ve seen errors (that were corrected), but not mindless, stubborn “we’re going to do it our way” abuse. I’ve learned more about liturgical abuse on this site than I have in the entire time I’ve been Catholic. Your attitudes are souring the possibility for a lot of Catholics that they might want to attend a Indult Mass. Learn a little of Christ’s humility, why don’t you?
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So very true.

I think perhaps the most tragic aspect of this sort of behavior is the power it gives to the other extremes within the Church.

In any event, the Novus Ordo Mass is every bit as reverent and beautiful as the Tridentine Mass. And a whole lot easier to follow…
 
Oy Vey!

I am surprised to read these responses. From a priest’s point of view, they have been great in my parish. The fact that I keep the Chair on the side, the Sacrament in the center, retiain the Ablutions at the altar by me, use the Patten at the distribution of Holy Communion and veil the Extraordinaries in albs to veil some of the potential material pride among them, have all been vindicated by the new GIRM.

– Fr. L.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
who wants to go watch a bunch of “more-Catholic-than-the-Pope” types sit around and congratulate themselves on their own holiness? The “New Mass” isn’t everywhere the pagan bacchanalia you people make it out to be.
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I am a teenager living in a small PA town… And I’ve already seen enough liturgical abuses to last me a life time. Our parish isn’t “pagan,” but it is certainly isn’t “traditional” either.

My parents are pretty middle-of-the-road kind of people–they won’t stand for the abuses, but they don’t want everything to go back to before Vatican II.

I see things a little differently.

Now, I don’t consider myself to be anywhere NEAR as holy as the Pope…heck, on the “holiness scale” I probably fall toward the bottom; but I love tradition. When my grandmother tells me how it “used to be,” I find myself wishing that it still was that way. I know this isn’t Vatican II’s fault, but I wish that someone (like, say, the bishops, or maybe even the Pope) would come out and say, “This is wrong; the documents have been misinterperated, THIS is how things should be!”

It seems to me that people in general like having a rock to cling to… an unchanging tradition that they KNOW will ALWAYS stay the same. When Masses were said in Latin, didn’t it unite the world-wide Church? No matter what parish you went to, no matter what country you were in, you could count on good ol’ reliable Mother Church… Churches all had a tabernacle in the front, kneelers on the pews, and the Mass said was always said in a familiar language, the language of the Holy Catholic Church–Latin.

Just look around you at the Church today!! Is this how Jesus intended it to be? What makes this “New Mass” so wonderful? (Please, if you have a reply to this, I’d be interested in hearing it.) Before Vatican II, hadn’t things pretty much been the same for 2000 years? That’s a darn solid foundation; a deep-rooted tradition… why would anybody want to “uproot” that?

Now, granted, I’ve never been to a Tridentine Mass or anything like that… I’ve only ever been to ONE Latin Mass in my whole life (on 9/11 a retired preist was covering for the pastor, and he said it in Latin)! But I’m tired of how things are. Why can’t we go back to the 2000-year-old tradition?

Sorry for ranting… but as I said, I’m tired of the abuses.
 
Irish Catholic:
Just look around you at the Church today!! Is this how Jesus intended it to be? What makes this “New Mass” so wonderful? (Please, if you have a reply to this, I’d be interested in hearing it.) Before Vatican II, hadn’t things pretty much been the same for 2000 years? That’s a darn solid foundation; a deep-rooted tradition… why would anybody want to “uproot” that?

Now, granted, I’ve never been to a Tridentine Mass or anything like that… I’ve only ever been to ONE Latin Mass in my whole life (on 9/11 a retired preist was covering for the pastor, and he said it in Latin)! But I’m tired of how things are. Why can’t we go back to the 2000-year-old tradition?

Sorry for ranting… but as I said, I’m tired of the abuses.
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A) Abuse SHOULD be corrected. There is ample evidence of abuse on this site, in the form of pictures/articles, etc. I personally have never seen “abuse”, unless you count some of the priests selfishly stamped their ego over the whole of the liturgy for the entire hour It usually lasts. I do wish they would simply allow Christ to shine through them (they are, after all, alter Christii). But I haven’t seen the garbage most people here complain about. And alot of the Traditionalist don’t complain about abuse, the complain about the Mass of Paul VI as though IT WAS ITSELF AN ABUSE!!! It isn’t and to suggest that it is ranks as heresy.

B) That 2000 year old tradition that you spoke of…do you think that is actually true? That there was one, single, unending liturgy, celebrated by the Apostles and their successors, without change or alteration? Did Jesus have on a fiddleback chasuble and a maniple, stand ad orientam to His congregation, etc.?

C) The Novus Ordo Mass can be done reverently and lovingly and nobly. I see it done every week at my parish, by my pastor. I saw it done all the time at the Carmelite Monastery where I was rec. into the Church.

My point is not that one shouldn’t/shouldn’t be allowed to attend an Indult Mass (Masses of SSPX is something else, if one attends those they give aid to schism). I would be happy to see them side by side, offered in the same parish. I’m just tired of people dumping on the Mass of Pope Paul VI. Dump on abuse all you wish. Some of us have only ever known THIS Mass and we love it.
 
No changes can change my focus, and what I am at mass for… I don’t see how the changes can hurt.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
That 2000 year old tradition that you spoke of…do you think that is actually true? That there was one, single, unending liturgy, celebrated by the Apostles and their successors, without change or alteration? Did Jesus have on a fiddleback chasuble and a maniple, stand ad orientam to His congregation, etc.?
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Okay, I see your point here, however… I was doing some reading and I was surprised how similar the Mass of today is to the Mass of St. Paul the Apostle’s time. Yes, there have been minor changes over the years, but the post Vatican II changes seem pretty radical to me.
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JKirkLVNV:
My point is not that one should/shouldn’t be allowed to attend an Indult Mass (Masses of SSPX is something else, if one attends those they give aid to schism).
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Um, pardon my ignorance, but what is an “Indult Mass”? (I’ve just never heard the terminology before…) Is there a difference between that and a Tridentine Mass, vs. a just plain Latin Mass, etc…?

Also, isn’t the SSPX Church the one that Mel Gibson indorses? I know it’s in schism, but I don’t understand why… Aren’t they doing everything by the (pre-Vatican II) book? How is this wrong?
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JKirkLVNV:
I would be happy to see them side by side, offered in the same parish. I’m just tired of people dumping on the Mass of Pope Paul VI. Dump on abuse all you wish. Some of us have only ever known THIS Mass and we love it.
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I too would be happy if the Latin Mass and the English Mass (not Anglican, mind you; just a Catholic Mass said in English) was/were(?) offered side-by-side at the same parish. However, that option doesn’t exist in my neck of the woods. I thought Latin was still supposed to be the norm? Why do you have to ask the Bishop’s permission to have the Mass said in Latin?

Include me in the “some of us who have only ever known THIS Mass” category… I was born in the late 80’s… However, you still didn’t answer my original question: Why do you love it?
 
Irish Catholic:
Okay, I see your point here, however… I was doing some reading and I was surprised how similar the Mass of today is to the Mass of St. Paul the Apostle’s time. Yes, there have been minor changes over the years, but the post Vatican II changes seem pretty radical to me. The Mass of today? Which one do you mean in this post? The TLM? The Mass of Paul VI (the “vernacular” Mass)? I’ve been repeatedly told that the Post-concilior liturgy was closest to what the ancient Church celebrated.

Um, pardon my ignorance, but what is an “Indult Mass”? (I’ve just never heard the terminology before…) Is there a difference between that and a Tridentine Mass, vs. a just plain Latin Mass, etc…? Mass in Latin allowed by the local Bishop, as I understand it, either the TLM or Mass of Paul VI in Latin.

Also, isn’t the SSPX Church the one that Mel Gibson indorses? I know it’s in schism, but I don’t understand why… Aren’t they doing everything by the (pre-Vatican II) book? How is this wrong? They are in schism because the founder ordained bishops without the Holy Father’s approval, thereby incurring automatic excommunication. We are warned that it is a grave matter to participate in their liturgies, though as far as I know, they still validly confect the Sacrifice. I don’t know, as I don’t ever intend to go to one of their liturgies.

I too would be happy if the Latin Mass and the English Mass (not Anglican, mind you; just a Catholic Mass said in English) was/were(?) offered side-by-side at the same parish. However, that option doesn’t exist in my neck of the woods. I thought Latin was still supposed to be the norm? Why do you have to ask the Bishop’s permission to have the Mass said in Latin?

Include me in the “some of us who have only ever known THIS Mass” category… I was born in the late 80’s… However, you still didn’t answer my original question: Why do you love it? Wow, I don’t have enough time to explain it! http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif Why do you love your mother? Couldn’t you go on and on about how you love your mom? And that’s the point: I assume that the TLM/Indults feel the same way about the “old” Mass. They should have it. They just shouldn’t constantly disparge/disdain the “new” Mass. Criticize, condemn, anathematize ABUSES all you want…that’s appropriate.
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Voice_Of_Reason:
It’s created more disunity where I’m at in terms of people still sitting and a couple if any people standing when the priest says “Pray breatheren that my sacrifice…”

All these changes are creating mass confusion. Pun intended.
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Now that you mention it, it’s been a little chaotic at my church too, and we still haven’t gotten the sitting/standing parts together. Too bad, because we used to be real together, like the Rockettes! And sometimes I hate standing throughout Communion.
 
JKirkLVNV said:
The Mass of today? Which one do you mean in this post? The TLM? The Mass of Paul VI (the “vernacular” Mass)? I’ve been repeatedly told that the Post-concilior liturgy was closest to what the ancient Church celebrated.
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“Mass of Today” …hmm… I suppose I meant, actually, I’m not sure what I meant. This is the first “Liturgy” thread I’ve ever posted on (I tend to frequent the “Family Life” forum), and quite frankly I know very little about the why’s and how’s of GIRM and the Liturgy (I’m sure it was apparent in my previous posts on this thread that I had no idea what I was talking about, lol). I’ve just recently become interested in all this because our new pastor is constantly trying to defy Rome. So, again, please pardon my ignorance…I’m here to learn.

On that note, does anyone know of a link to the new GIRM online? I’d be very interested in reading it…

Thank-you for your help (and your patience;) )!

~Irish Catholic
 
I’m also surprised to see so many “No’s.” In our parish and our retirement community chapel the GIRM has been a great way to finalize answers to questions about some practices that were less than optimal or simply mistakes. I’m thinking of things like consecrating huge flagons of wine for distribution under both species, etc. Not every liturgical problem is willful–some are honest mistakes that are easily corrected thanks to the GIRM.
 
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Fortiterinre:
some are honest mistakes that are easily corrected thanks to the GIRM.
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Exactly. I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to pause and cross myself as was my custom after rec. the Sacred Body/Most Precious Blood. They wanted us to keep uniformly moving, that’s why they asked us to make the bow of reverence. This only dawned on me gradually and I certainly wasn’t trying to defy GRIM or call attention to how holy I thought I was.
 
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