Has The Prophethood Left Israel/The Jews?

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DAAVEED1590 said:
In short, yes. In long, watch this video…

youtube.com/watch?v=AY1GG0dyU9Y

Enjoy!

God Bless and Ave Maria!

Edit-However, I am a big supporter of the Nation of Israel for non-religious reasons.
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Jewishness is more complicated than this video makes it out to be. Rabbinical Jews would freely admit that there was change after the destruction of the temple. But from the perspective of the Jewish nation, this was not the first time the temple was destroyed. The Jewish nation was captured and exiled to Babylon and later Egypt, depriving them of the temple, but not interfering with the covenant. To modern Jews, the current, extended deprivation of the temple is a just another burden the Chosen people must endure.

Its important to note that the destruction of the temple soon after Christianity is a mere coincidence, of no theological value. Before Christ’s sacrifice at Calvary, the temple contained the “Holy of Holies”, which was the True Presence of God. This inner part of the sanctuary was separated from the area with the Altar, where animal sacrifices were performed, by an extremely heavy fabric “veil”, that was only opened once a year for the Jewish High Priest.

After Jesus’ Death, the veil ripped open, as the True Presence exited. Thus the temple was spiritual empty for approximately 30 years before the Temple was destroyed. The continued devotion to the temple before its destruction shows an earnest belief by most Jews that nothing had changed following Jesus’ execution. As an aside, the True Presence continues in the Eucharist of the New Covenant.

The Jews today are the legitimate successors to the Nation Israel, even if they are religiously in error. This nation has at least a 5000 year history, with a deep cultural memory and sincere devotion to God the Father. It has weathered persecutions, apostasy, and near total destruction by hundreds of different nations. They wouldn’t be able to survive without at all without at least some favor from God.

Before the Covenant with the Jews, there was a covenant with Adam and Eve, and a covenant with Noah. These represented Covenants with all of humanity. It wasn’t until Abraham, that a specific tribe was selected as favored, and later his descendants were united into a holy nation under the covenant. While Christ’s sacrifice reopened the covenant to all nations, the Nation Israel is stilling willing to sacrifice all to live by its understanding of the covenant.

There would be great rejoicing in Heaven if this particularly beloved nation should realize Jesus is the Messiah, and that His sacrifice is enough.
 
fms said:
If so, what are the implications?
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Hi FMS,

What do you mean by this statement, “if” the prophethood left Israel? I can understand the question but what I don’t understand is why you feel that the prophethood had ever left? I know that the last prophet was - Malachi (The Twelve Prophets (Trei-Assar))

The final three books of The Twelve are Haggai (Chagai), Zechariah and Malachi. These were the prophets who lived at the very end of the age of prophecy (after their deaths, there have been no prophets. There have been some people with divine inspiration, but no one was on the level of a prophet). This part I can understand. However…

The reason why I’m asking this question is because the whole purpose of the Messiahship was that Samuel went to the people and told them that if they wanted to choose a king, what the implications would be. There is such a wide difference between the passage in Deuteronomy indicating the word “a prophet”–to state the verse “a prophet from among you, from your brothers, like myself” so how are we to take this verse? As a overturning from prophet to Messiah, as we read in 1 Samuel 8:6 the elders of Israel came before the prophet to say: “Appoint a king over us, to judge us, like all the other nations”>>Isn’t this this first mention of a King over Israel-wouldn’t this be the first time we learn of the term Messiah? There are verses which definitely seem different from one another and also, from what I understood, it was said that the Messiah was created prior to creation-even from a revelation point of view, prophecy from Adam and handed down to the great prophets, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob along the way to the priest named Zechariah, Mary & Joseph to Simeon - see Luke 1:46-55 & then 67-80 and then continue to read Luke 2:14, and last - Luke 2:25-32. Wasn’t this a prophecy that was handed down all the way from Jacob. Genesis 49:1-7 Jacob gathers his sons before his death, saying “Gather together and I will tell you what will happen to you at the end of days”. edit (Bereshit (Genesis) 49:1.) But the blessings Jacob proceeds to give have only a tenuous connection to the time of the redemption.

So waiting for the Messiah means knowing that he will bring the world to the recognition of the Almighty and at last fulfill the national mission of Israel. So Isaiah 55:11 verse is not only perceived - but virtually understood, and to quote “so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent.”

Here’s one other point, in the terminology “Messiah” it was meant specifically to be handed down toward the Son of David or house of David, see verse in Genesis 49

8 “Judah,** your brothers will praise you;your hand will be on the neck of your enemies;
your father’s sons will bow down to you.

and,

10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,[c]
until he to whom it belongs[d] shall come and the obedience of the nations shall be his.

The Messiahship would be have to be declared from a prophet - so who would be the prophet, “if” the prophethood had left Israel (as you say…) even at the time of Jesus or there after. Even after the time of Jesus, the prophethood would still have to materialize for the 2nd coming of Christ (as we read of the two witnesses that are mentioned in the book of Revelation are Elijah and Moses. …)

Blessings
Mary

P.S However, Moses was not a king but a prophet and yet he was the closest man to Gd which (if we read) had the authority to relay Gd’s word to the Israelite-as well as set up a judicial system of laws (Halacha - Moshe miSinai); and establish a priesthood (Aaron)and even to announce Gd’s punishments for voliations toward the commandments, but how can you compare equality from the Messiah (king) to a prophet without realizing the authoritativeness from a prophet to Messiah.**
 
fms said:
If so, what are the implications?
Click to expand...
fms,

Re: Has The Prophethood Left Israel/The Jews?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls Israel the priestly people of God and the root on to which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.

God chooses Abraham
59 In order to gather together scattered humanity God calls Abram from his country, his kindred and his father’s house,16 and makes him Abraham, that is, “the father of a multitude of nations”.** “In you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed.”**17

60 The people descended from Abraham would be the trustee of the promise made to the patriarchs, the chosen people, called to prepare for that day when God would gather all his children into the unity of the Church.18 They would be the root on to which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.19

61 The patriarchs, prophets and certain other Old Testament figures have been and always will be honored as saints in all the Church’s liturgical traditions.

God forms his people Israel
62 After the patriarchs, God formed Israel as his people by freeing them from slavery in Egypt. He established with them the covenant of Mount Sinai and, through Moses, gave them his law so that they would recognize him and serve him as the one living and true God, the provident Father and just judge, and so that they would look for the promised Savior.20

63 Israel is the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the LORD”, and “the first to hear the word of God”,21 the people of “elder brethren” in the faith of Abraham.

64 Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts.22 The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations.23 Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary.24

1145 A sacramental celebration is woven from signs and symbols. In keeping with the divine pedagogy of salvation, their meaning is rooted in the work of creation and in human culture, specified by the events of the Old Covenant and fully revealed in the person and work of Christ.

1150 Signs of the covenant. The Chosen People received from God distinctive signs and symbols that marked its liturgical life. These are no longer solely celebrations of cosmic cycles and social gestures, but signs of the covenant, symbols of God’s mighty deeds for his people. Among these liturgical signs from the Old Covenant are circumcision, anointing and consecration of kings and priests, laying on of hands, sacrifices, and above all the Passover. The Church sees in these signs a prefiguring of the sacraments of the New Covenant.

1151 Signs taken up by Christ. In his preaching the Lord Jesus often makes use of the signs of creation to make known the mysteries of the Kingdom of God.17 He performs healings and illustrates his preaching with physical signs or symbolic gestures.18 He gives new meaning to the deeds and signs of the Old Covenant, above all to the Exodus and the Passover,19 for he himself is the meaning of all these signs.

1152 Sacramental signs. Since Pentecost, it is through the sacramental signs of his Church that the Holy Spirit carries on the work of sanctification. The sacraments of the Church do not abolish but purify and integrate all the richness of the signs and symbols of the cosmos and of social life. Further, they fulfill the types and figures of the Old Covenant, signify and make actively present the salvation wrought by Christ, and prefigure and anticipate the glory of heaven.
 
Anna_Scott said:
fms,

Re: Has The Prophethood Left Israel/The Jews?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls Israel the priestly people of God and the root on to which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.

God chooses Abraham
59 In order to gather together scattered humanity God calls Abram from his country, his kindred and his father’s house,16 and makes him Abraham, that is, “the father of a multitude of nations”.** “In you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed.”**17

60 The people descended from Abraham would be the trustee of the promise made to the patriarchs, the chosen people, called to prepare for that day when God would gather all his children into the unity of the Church.18 They would be the root on to which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.19

61 The patriarchs, prophets and certain other Old Testament figures have been and always will be honored as saints in all the Church’s liturgical traditions.

God forms his people Israel
62 After the patriarchs, God formed Israel as his people by freeing them from slavery in Egypt. He established with them the covenant of Mount Sinai and, through Moses, gave them his law so that they would recognize him and serve him as the one living and true God, the provident Father and just judge, and so that they would look for the promised Savior.20

63 Israel is the priestly people of God, “called by the name of the LORD”, and “the first to hear the word of God”,21 the people of “elder brethren” in the faith of Abraham.

64 Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts.22 The prophets proclaim a radical redemption of the People of God, purification from all their infidelities, a salvation which will include all the nations.23 Above all, the poor and humble of the Lord will bear this hope. Such holy women as Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Hannah, Judith and Esther kept alive the hope of Israel’s salvation. The purest figure among them is Mary.24

1145 A sacramental celebration is woven from signs and symbols. In keeping with the divine pedagogy of salvation, their meaning is rooted in the work of creation and in human culture, specified by the events of the Old Covenant and fully revealed in the person and work of Christ.

1150 Signs of the covenant. The Chosen People received from God distinctive signs and symbols that marked its liturgical life. These are no longer solely celebrations of cosmic cycles and social gestures, but signs of the covenant, symbols of God’s mighty deeds for his people. Among these liturgical signs from the Old Covenant are circumcision, anointing and consecration of kings and priests, laying on of hands, sacrifices, and above all the Passover. The Church sees in these signs a prefiguring of the sacraments of the New Covenant.

1151 Signs taken up by Christ. In his preaching the Lord Jesus often makes use of the signs of creation to make known the mysteries of the Kingdom of God.17 He performs healings and illustrates his preaching with physical signs or symbolic gestures.18 He gives new meaning to the deeds and signs of the Old Covenant, above all to the Exodus and the Passover,19 for he himself is the meaning of all these signs.

1152 Sacramental signs. Since Pentecost, it is through the sacramental signs of his Church that the Holy Spirit carries on the work of sanctification. The sacraments of the Church do not abolish but purify and integrate all the richness of the signs and symbols of the cosmos and of social life. Further, they fulfill the types and figures of the Old Covenant, signify and make actively present the salvation wrought by Christ, and prefigure and anticipate the glory of heaven.
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Excellent Post!

Peace in Christ Name, Wonderful!
Mary
 
FMS question was centered more on the prophethood of Israel, not the priesthood (during the First Temple period of about 410 years, there were only 18 High Priest and during the Second Temple period of 420 years, there were more than 300 High Priests). Although the priesthood could be considered - seers, which is a trait of a prophet. (in the case of Eli - the priest, Eli had a dual role, one as priest and another as a Judge, see Urim and Thummim; Stones kept in a pouch on the high-priests breastplate, used in determining God’s decision in certain questions and issues.LINKReferences: Ex 28:30, Lev 8:8, Num 27:21, Deu 33:8, I Sam 28:6, Ezra 2:63, Nehehmiah 7:65 ) The answer is that the last prophet was Malachi however, the question that the thread master posted was with an additional question, “If so, what are the implications?”

In order to answer the thread master post, the last poster started the process with a great post, and one I wish that I could have written, but didn’t: The priesthood (referring to Aaron the Levite - Aaronic priesthood, Levitical priesthood) comes from the house of Levi. A Kohen- a priest, are traditionally believed and halachically required to be of direct patrilineal descent from the Biblical Aaron - as we all know this. (Numbers 17:8 add: cohen-levi.org/the_tribe/tribes_of_israel.htm) So the Tribe of Judah provided the kingship and national leadership. The Tribe of Levi was responsible for the Temple Service and spiritual instruction, so were does prophethood come in from? What tribe? any tribe? or a specific tribe? or perhaps a prophet can be outside of the scope of Judaism because not all prophets were Jewish (though most were) and there were women as well as men navis (prophets). Outside of the major and minor prophets, there were many, many thousands of prophets who aren’t even mentioned in the Bible.

The Apostle Paul spells this out in Hebrews 11 - with 32 "And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

**39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect." **

However, and as I said in my last post, I understand the question (as is) but what I don’t understand is what you meant by (perhaps) the entering question into the post…“If so, what are the implications”…the implications are that they will wait for the Messiah, "For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay. (Habakkuk 2:3) The old Testament (the Tanakh - Hebrew bible) has continued prophecies, yet to be fulfilled. The diaspora Jews will be able to return to Israel, “So then, the days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when people will no longer say, 'As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,but they will say, ‘As surely as the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of Israel up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ Then they will live in their own land.”

The main point to all of this, is that communication (prayer) will still continue as away to connect with God (John 4:23). Also, when Jesus resurrected and ascended up to heaven, that didn’t mean he left us permanently, and in the same thought - he sent us God’s Spirit (John 16:7). What were the other thoughts that Jesus shared with the Apostles and with us? “I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.” and in the Jewish religion (and from what I learned)"There is a kal vachomer (inference from minor to major) that we derive from a grain of wheat. Just as a grain is buried {planted} naked and it sprouts forth with many garments {layers} - and when someone in our family passes away, they are with us - and in another way, when a saint or prophet passes (Great or Minor) they continue to be our advocates to God. They are our benefactors in heaven. If God completely left mankind alone - what would happen to this place??? Even when we don’t think that God is present in our lives - He has a tendency to let us know that he’s very much around and active. The prophets may not be visibly present to give God’s message but I think that God can let us know when to straighten our act up through repentance and also when to return back to him - as he calls us all by name. Also, we have the bible and the Jewish people have the Torah - it is God’s words, and all He is asking us to do, is listen and hear what he has to say.

Peace and I hope I added some good thoughts to your questions
Mary
 
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