Hasn't the legalization of no-fault divorce and remarriage “redefined marriage” for 40 years now?

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Seeker1961 said:
I don’t know one single person in the REAL world who “loves abortion”. It’s a medical procedure for most of the world, and for most who avail themselves of it, something not entered into because they “hate children” or just love killing babies. I’ve read both of those accusations on this site frequently.

If there is ANY hope of eliminating abortion in this society, some semblance of reality has to enter into the argument. Otherwise, you run the risk of continuing to be presented as irrational extremists and dismissed entirely.
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You see, you make the mistake of equating abortion with “killing babies” with respect to the Left. If it WERE killing babies in their collective mind, I am sure abortion would not be a fiercely defended “right.”

That is the entire point, they DONT THINK OF ABORTION AS KILLING BABIES. Even I, a staunch Conservative do not think the Left consists of sadists who enjoy the thought of babies being torn from limb to limb. But in their dehumanization of the unborn, the Left equates abortion with freedom, choice, liberation, and prevention of the inconvenience and expense of children.

Thus I still contend they love abortion because to the Left it has a completely different meaning than to someone who recognizes the sanctity of human life. They love abortion or they would not defend it so vigorously, it would not be a plank in the Democrat platform, Congress would not have reacted so swiftly when the Komen Foundation pulled what was a pittance in the level of outside funding of PP, they would not have featured the abortapallooza on the stage at the DNC. Oh they love it alright, not because they love killing babies but because they don’t even think about babies…

You outed yourself by calling it a “medical procedure” which is the truth but not the whole truth.

Lisa
 
edwest2 said:
I no longer feel like a part of “our culture.” I lost that feeling in 1973 when abortion was legalized by the Supreme Court - not the people - and radicals, anarchists and (using the dictionary definition) sexual deviants started to repeat over and over and over and over and over again (translating from the slang vernacular of the 1970s): “Leave us alone!! We’ll live with our girlfriends and have lots of sex and not get married!” “We don’t care about God and the Church or some piece of paper (marriage license).” “I’m addicted to porn and I love masturbating!!” “I love going to topless bars and strip clubs. It’s legal!” “I’m going to buy the latest, very thick, Swingers magazine and drool while looking at page after page of nude or semi-nude girls who want secret, no strings attached sex!! It’s great!”

And for gays? 1973 was the year radical gay activists and gays inside the American Psychological Association voted that what was a disorder yesterday was no longer a disorder today. Pretty amazing considering years of research and published reports - including interviews with homosexual persons - suddenly no longer mattered at the same time. Research that was valid yesterday, just disappeared the following day. There was an outcry, of course.

amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370

thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/204/81-words

This opened the door that got us from there to today. The next step was to strike down sodomy laws, followed by attempts to gradually make gay behavior appear harmless and then OK, and once the polling data numbers got high enough, to introduce same-sex marriage and adoption, but it was a slow, gradual process so the straights (or squares or country bumpkins) wouldn’t see gay marriage coming. Until, one day, they went to vote and same-sex marriage was on the ballot. Suddenly, there were billboards showing gay men and words of promotion.

So now, even here, it’s “the APA says it’s OK.”

Peace,
Ed
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I agree. I am just pointing out the belief that because easy divorce and contraception are widely held as morally licit it is wrong to fight against same sex so called marriage.

People think that it is unfair. They think false moral equivalence is the highest goal.
 
LisaA said:
You see, you make the mistake of equating abortion with “killing babies” with respect to the Left. If it WERE killing babies in their collective mind, I am sure abortion would not be a fiercely defended “right.”

That is the entire point, they DONT THINK OF ABORTION AS KILLING BABIES. Even I, a staunch Conservative do not think the Left consists of sadists who enjoy the thought of babies being torn from limb to limb. But in their dehumanization of the unborn, the Left equates abortion with freedom, choice, liberation, and prevention of the inconvenience and expense of children.

Thus I still contend they love abortion because to the Left it has a completely different meaning than to someone who recognizes the sanctity of human life. They love abortion or they would not defend it so vigorously, it would not be a plank in the Democrat platform, Congress would not have reacted so swiftly when the Komen Foundation pulled what was a pittance in the level of outside funding of PP, they would not have featured the abortapallooza on the stage at the DNC. Oh they love it alright, not because they love killing babies but because they don’t even think about babies…

You outed yourself by calling it a “medical procedure” which is the truth but not the whole truth.

Lisa
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You missed the FIRST part of that sentence-or it didn’t fit into your preconceived characterization of me so you ignored it.
It’s a medical procedure for most of the world,/QUOTE]
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YOU decided that was how I felt about it, just so you could keep me in your little box that you place everyone in that you view as “other”.
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Until you learn to listen and understand the REAL position of those who disagree with you, you will NEVER be able to even attempt to get them to change their worldview. Telling people how much they “love abortion” is fine if you want to leave it as “us vs them”, but if you really want to get people to change the way they see abortion, you have to start from where they really are, not where you want them to be.
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As with everything else, it all depends on your goal. Being “more righteous” than everyone else, or being an evangelist to lead people towards righteousness?
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Seeker1961 said:
You missed the FIRST part of that sentence-or it didn’t fit into your preconceived characterization of me so you ignored it.
It’s a medical procedure for most of the world
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It’s very difficult to get anyone to listen to what you have to say, once they are told what they are/how they think/what they think/why they blieve. They know what they think, why they believe, etc. The goal is to get them to listen and they stop listening once they’re told what they are about. I wonder how many people listen to someone starts out by claiming the person “loves abortion” or starts out claiming they are right and everyone else is wrong. 🤷

Then again, in real life, without a computer between one and another, I highly doubt people talk to each other that way. No one would ever listen. :rolleyes:
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Rence said:
It’s very difficult to get anyone to listen to what you have to say, once they are told what they are/how they think/what they think/why they blieve. They know what they think, why they believe, etc. The goal is to get them to listen and they stop listening once they’re told what they are about. I wonder how many people listen to someone starts out by claiming the person “loves abortion” or starts out claiming they are right and everyone else is wrong. 🤷

Then again, in real life, without a computer between one and another, I highly doubt people talk to each other that way. No one would ever listen. :rolleyes:
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Rence, you like Seeker1961 missed an important point. No one accused a specific person of loving abortion but rather this is a Leftist position. I listed a number of ways the Left shows its love and devotion for abortion; its intense defense at the slightest restriction, waiting period or notification, its adamant demands that government funding continue, its highlighting of abortion promoters at the recent DNC, the appointment of pro abortion HHS Secretary, the Administration’s demands that abortion be covered by a $1 surcharge, the HHS Mandate; the list goes on and on.

It is very clear that the Left does not equate abortion with baby killing but instead uses vague terms like reproductive rights, freedom, liberation, support of women’s rights etc.

How do we act toward what we love? Do we defend it? Fund it? Promote it? Appoint spokesmen who agree with us?

At this point the Left has the bully pulpit both through the media and the party in power. Thus they promote ideas such as SSM, contraception, moral equivalence of SSM to traditional marriage. Their agenda is clear.

Lisa
 
To Rence -

How would you start the conversation? There can’t be two right answers. So, I approach a young lady at a pro-abortion rally and I ask her, as she holds her sign for Abortion Rights, why she believes abortion is a right. What do you think she’ll say? Will she not try to convince me that her views are the right views?

And if I asked, “But what about those people who oppose abortion?” Do you think she would try to convince me that they were wrong? All of them?

Why would she spend the time, the gas money and add her voice to the pro-abortion cause? No particular reason?

Peace,
Ed
 
Perhaps I am not the person to mention this but we are like WAY off topic. So back to the regularly scheduled program.
 
LisaA said:
It is very clear that the Left does not equate abortion with baby killing but instead uses vague terms like reproductive rights, freedom, liberation, support of women’s rights etc.

How do we act toward what we love? Do we defend it? Fund it? Promote it? Appoint spokesmen who agree with us?
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Wow. Amen. :clapping: The logic is unassailable.
 
Dear Bartolome Casas,
It is indeed positively ENRAGING that the horror and extreme evil of “no fault” divorce
is simply ignored. And there absolutely IS NO MOVEMENT!

We Catholics need to start one, now. I’m not a real computer literate guy. But there
must be thousands, if not millions of people whose lives were ruined by no fault divorce.
Wouldn’t these people band together, if given the chance? I don’t know how to make
something “go viral”. But I’ll bet someone out there whose life was destroyed can.

I just registered five minutes ago and I can’t figure out how to give my email address out
privately. There’s no time anyway. So I’m listing it for you and anyone else who hates
no fault divorce and wants to see it gone or at least controlled. I’ve seen good posts but
you’re the first person who really nailed it. Please email me ASAP. Any other interested
and passionate persons may do the same.
tanstead@fuse.net
 
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