Hate Crime Bill

[Booklover]

So according to the defenders of the Hate Crimes bill, if a priest or minister or anyone else for that matter, states that homosexual acts are wrong, they are “inciting” hatred and should be silenced and put in jail! That’s exactly what’s going to happen if this bill goes through.

As the article states:

the bill is not about crime prevention or even civil rights. It’s about outlawing peaceful speech—speech that asserts that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.

and

We’ve seen where laws like this can lead: Hate crimes have been defined to include verbal attacks—and even peaceful speech. The Thought Police have already prosecuted Christians under hate-crime laws in England, Sweden, and Canada. And in Pennsylvania, 11 Christians were prosecuted under the state’s hate crime law for preaching on a street corner against homosexuality.

The PC force is out again supporting immorality!

Vickie

 

[Jerusha]

B.S. It is carefully phrased so that such abuses will not happen. Get a head on your shoulders. Many wacky homosexuals get that way because of homophobes like yourself.

 

[Publisher]

We can only pray that this bill will finally become law. It has an excellent chance…thank God.

 

[Booklover]

B.S. It is carefully phrased so that such abuses will not happen. Get a head on your shoulders. Many wacky homosexuals get that way because of homophobes like yourself.

If that is so, then why are so many people out there preaching against it?? So just by my being against this bill, some homosexual will become “wacky”? Get real!

Tell me, do you consider the homosexual agenda benign??

By calling me a “homophobe”, you’re using another homosexual tactic against those who do not accept their lifestyle!

 

[Jerusha]

Obviously, I don’t like heterophobes, either. Celibacy is a great value, and those who choose that lifestyle should also be protected by that law. AS MUCH AS I AM WAITING FOR THE RIGHT MAN.

I am 100% behind any legislation that will prevent others from going through what my family and I have been through.

Are you opposed to the FACT that the proposed law protects other classes of people?

 

[Jerusha]

You also need to remember that culture varies in different parts of the country. I understand that gay culture is militant and in-your-face in Florida. I understand your feelings about that. However, in other parts of the country, things are different. And I gave you some PRIME examples.

 

[KarenNC]

So according to the defenders of the Hate Crimes bill, if a priest or minister or anyone else for that matter, states that homosexual acts are wrong, they are “inciting” hatred and should be silenced and put in jail! That’s exactly what’s going to happen if this bill goes through.

As the article states:

the bill is not about crime prevention or even civil rights. It’s about outlawing peaceful speech—speech that asserts that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.

and

We’ve seen where laws like this can lead: Hate crimes have been defined to include verbal attacks—and even peaceful speech. The Thought Police have already prosecuted Christians under hate-crime laws in England, Sweden, and Canada. And in Pennsylvania, 11 Christians were prosecuted under the state’s hate crime law for preaching on a street corner against homosexuality.

Did you bother to read my post in answer to this? It was #17, if you missed it.

The 11 Christians in Pennsylvania were not prosecuted. Only 4 were ever arraigned and the charges were dropped. The judge specifically said they were exercising their First Amendment rights. These folks were not simply standing there peacefully “stating that homosexuality was wrong.” They were not in a pulpit or writing a letter to the editor or standing peacefully on a street corner handing out literature. They sought out a well publicized Gay Pride event and began screaming at them through bullhorns, disrupting a peaceful assembly, blocking a public street and refusing to move or disperse when asked to do so repeatedly by police. If they are not found guilty under a hate crimes law, why would you think that actual peaceful speech would be so?

I would like to see some actual references to the specific events Chuck Colson means by “The Thought Police have already prosecuted Christians under hate-crime laws in England, Sweden, and Canada” so that we can see the actual facts of the cases. Given his misrepresentation and misinformation about the event in Philadelphia, I have no reason to expect that he is any more truthful about the other events he mentions.

see my post #2
"As I said before:
The bill reads: “Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, in any circumstance described in subparagraph (B), willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person–”

I see only mention of bodily injury. So, unless the ministers are planning to beat up, shoot or firebomb homosexuals from the pulpit, I have to say I don’t see the concern at this point.

The word “speech”, much less “hate speech,” does not occur in the legislation."

You may want to stop reading only the propaganda and start researching the actual facts of these claims yourself.

 

[blacktiger057]

A good thing about that bill is that, if passed, the Church will have to stop treating homosexuals like some sort of foreign creature. It disgusts me that homosexuals, as of the moment, can never be fully accepted into any Catholic Church.

Now, if the homosexuals are committing heinous scandals or things like sex before marriage, or worse, sex and no marriage, then that is a different matter entirely…

 

[blacktiger057]

As the article states:

the bill is not about crime prevention or even civil rights. It’s about outlawing peaceful speech—speech that asserts that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.

If a whole group of people said that being Jewish is morally wrong and those large group of people treated Jewish people like aliens, then yes, eventually there would be a law outlawing “peaceful” speech against Jewish people.

Now, erase ‘Jews’, and in its place, put ‘homosexuals’. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Booklover]

A good thing about that bill is that, if passed, the Church will have to stop treating homosexuals like some sort of foreign creature. It disgusts me that homosexuals, as of the moment, can never be fully accepted into any Catholic Church.

Excuse me, but this is baloney! The Church does not discriminate against homosexuals! The Church is against homosexual acts!

This is what the Catechism states:

2357
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or betwen women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Now, if the homosexuals are committing heinous scandals or things like sex before marriage, or worse, sex and no marriage, then that is a different matter entirely…

What do you think that militant homosexuals want?? They want to live the “gay” lifestyle and to force the public to approve of it! They want to make us to believe that their lifestyle is normal and natural!

Vickie

 

[Jerusha]

They want to live the “gay” lifestyle and to force the public to approve of it! They want to make us to believe that their lifestyle is normal and natural!

So, it is normal to them, as strange as it may seem to us. We know the body parts don’t fit, they try to make them fit. I object to those who “out” those who they think have the predisposition. And that is covered by such legislation.

If a whole group of people said that being Jewish is morally wrong and those large group of people treated Jewish people like aliens, then yes, eventually there would be a law outlawing “peaceful” speech against Jewish people.

And one should not forget that also applies to American Indians. Except the situation has been tolerated so long because of the attitudes of certain religious groups. There has never been such legislation enacted, nationwide. Just a few years ago, someone threatened to have me, born in the US, DEPORTED

So how long does it have to take???

 

[Booklover]

So, it is normal to them, as strange as it may seem to us. We know the body parts don’t fit, they try to make them fit. I object to those who “out” those who they think have the predisposition. And that is covered by such legislation.

So according to your estimation, men who like rape should be allowed to rape because it’s “normal” for them, and pedophiles should also be allowed to have sex with kids since that is also “normal” for them?

You never did answer my question whether you believe the homosexual agenda is benign??

And one should not forget that also applies to American Indians. Except the situation has been tolerated so long because of the attitudes of certain religious groups. There has never been such legislation enacted, nationwide. Just a few years ago, someone threatened to have me, born in the US, DEPORTED

So how long does it have to take???

More on the Hate Crimes Bill.

Vickie

 

[KarenNC]

More on the Hate Crimes Bill.

“You or your pastor might not agree with homosexuals,” Rep. Jan. Schakowsky (D-Ill.) said on the House floor, “but surely you don’t believe that’s a reason for them to be assaulted.” She said the bill “is not about thought, this is not about speech, this is about violence.”

Well said.

 

[Jerusha]

And rape and child sexual abuse are hate crimes.

Sex between two consenting adults is, and should be, their private matter.

A priest or minister can try to bring to repentance people practicing homosexuality within his congregation, without overstepping the bounds of such a law.

Really, booklover, your arguments are more based on emotion than intellect.

You never did answer my question whether you believe the homosexual agenda is benign??

What is benign about

those who “out” those who they think have the predisposition.

 

[Booklover]

“You or your pastor might not agree with homosexuals,” Rep. Jan. Schakowsky (D-Ill.) said on the House floor, “but surely you don’t believe that’s a reason for them to be assaulted.” She said the bill “is not about thought, this is not about speech, this is about violence.”

Well said.

Who said anything that it’s okay to assault them??I never said that!

"
The U.S. House of Representatives Thursday passed a bill that would extend “hate crimes” protection to homosexuals and other specified groups, but religious leaders were already praising the White House for issuing a threat to veto the bill if it passes.

Why extra protection for homosexuals?? Shouldn’t the bill be for anyone who is assaulted?

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

And rape and child sexual abuse are hate crimes.

Sex between two consenting adults is, and should be, their private matter.

But not when they try to force the public to accept the unacceptable!

A priest or minister can try to bring to repentance people practicing homosexuality within his congregation, without overstepping the bounds of such a law.

Really, booklover, your arguments are more based on emotion than intellect.

What is benign about

You keep refusing to give me an answer as to whether the homosexual agenda is benign or not!

Vickie

 

[Antwill]

This hate crime bill is just a calculated step by the liberal left and those who support the homosexual agenda. Although the bill may not specifically target speech, just wait, one will be coming that does.

There was already a case in Sweden where a protestant pastor was convicted and sentenced to a month in prison for giving a sermon against homosexuality and there is a growing list of pastors and priests who are being prosecuted under various “hate speech” laws, simply for teaching what the Church and the bible say about the immorality of homosexual relations.

lifesite.net/ldn/2004/apr/04043006.html

This wouldn’t ever happen in the good ol’ US of A, you say? Well, there are already several attempts (and successes) to promote and normalize the gay lifestyle in our public schools.
There is also a pro-homosexual curriculum being pushed in Maryland that suppresses all other viewpoints:

frc.org/get.cfm?i=AL07F03

Same thing in California:

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22709

This is all very reminiscent of how abortion was legalized in this country. Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) knew that abortion would not be accepted initially. So, she worked to legalize contraception and the Anglicans were eventually persuaded to change their teachings on contraception. Soon, most, if not all, protestant denominations followed suit. Now, of course, abortion on demand is legal in this country and widely accepted. You see, she knew that if she could get society to accept contraception, the natural progression was to eventually accept abortion. She may have been an evil woman, but she wasn’t dumb.

All of this legislation that is promoted as simply “protecting” homosexuals is just a calculated, incremental step toward suppressing all other viewpoints that are contrary to that lifestyle. Of course, the Church does not condone mistreatment (verbally or physically) of homosexuals or anyone else, for that matter. However, we need to stand up for the Truth and lovingly provide that to our homosexual brothers and sisters. If this legislation is allowed to pass, we will be that much farther down the slippery slope. Eventually, the kind of legislation that has been passed in Europe will pass here and we WILL be prosecuted simply for standing up for our beliefs and/or Church teachings, regardless of how loving a manner we use to do so.

 

[Booklover]

This hate crime bill is just a calculated step by the liberal left and those who support the homosexual agenda. Although the bill may not specifically target speech, just wait, one will be coming that does.

There was already a case in Sweden where a protestant pastor was convicted and sentenced to a month in prison for giving a sermon against homosexuality and there is a growing list of pastors and priests who are being prosecuted under various “hate speech” laws, simply for teaching what the Church and the bible say about the immorality of homosexual relations.

lifesite.net/ldn/2004/apr/04043006.html

This wouldn’t ever happen in the good ol’ US of A, you say? Well, there are already several attempts (and successes) to promote and normalize the gay lifestyle in our public schools.
There is also a pro-homosexual curriculum being pushed in Maryland that suppresses all other viewpoints:

frc.org/get.cfm?i=AL07F03

Same thing in California:

worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22709

This is all very reminiscent of how abortion was legalized in this country. Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) knew that abortion would not be accepted initially. So, she worked to legalize contraception and the Anglicans were eventually persuaded to change their teachings on contraception. Soon, most, if not all, protestant denominations followed suit. Now, of course, abortion on demand is legal in this country and widely accepted. You see, she knew that if she could get society to accept contraception, the natural progression was to eventually accept abortion. She may have been an evil woman, but she wasn’t dumb.

All of this legislation that is promoted as simply “protecting” homosexuals is just a calculated, incremental step toward suppressing all other viewpoints that are contrary to that lifestyle. Of course, the Church does not condone mistreatment (verbally or physically) of homosexuals or anyone else, for that matter. However, we need to stand up for the Truth and lovingly provide that to our homosexual brothers and sisters. If this legislation is allowed to pass, we will be that much farther down the slippery slope. Eventually, the kind of legislation that has been passed in Europe will pass here and we WILL be prosecuted simply for standing up for our beliefs and/or Church teachings, regardless of how loving a manner we use to do so.

Great response! I agree wholeheartedly. There is also the “Gay Bill of Special Rights”. See here. The Constitution Party said the plan is a “recipe for civil war”.

“Everyone should read this legislation. It clearly gives those who choose non-traditional sexual behavior preference over those with traditional moral values,” said state Chairman Jack Brown. “This legislation will lock religious people inside their church buildings and let perversion occupy the rest of the landscape!”

Vickie

 

[KarenNC]

Who said anything that it’s okay to assault them??I never said that!

It was a quote from the article you posted—“More on the Hate Crimes Bill.”

 

[KarenNC]

**There was already a case in Sweden where a protestant pastor was convicted and sentenced to a month in prison for giving a sermon against homosexuality and there is a growing list of pastors and priests who are being prosecuted under various “hate speech” laws, simply for teaching what the Church and the bible say about the immorality of homosexual relations…

Eventually, the kind of legislation that has been passed in Europe will pass here and we WILL be prosecuted simply for standing up for our beliefs and/or Church teachings, regardless of how loving a manner we use to do so**

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45538-2005Jan28.html

One Sunday in the summer of 2003, the Rev. Ake Green, a Pentecostal pastor, stepped into the pulpit of his small church in the southern Swedish village of Borgholm. There, the 63-year-old clergyman delivered a sermon denouncing homosexuality as “a deep cancerous tumor in the entire society” and condemning Sweden’s plan to allow gays to form legally recognized partnerships.

“Our country is facing a disaster of great proportions,” he told the 75 parishioners at the service. “Sexually twisted people will rape animals,” Green declared, and homosexuals “open the door to forbidden areas,” such as pedophilia.

With these words, which the local newspaper published at his request, Green ran afoul of Sweden’s strict laws against hate speech. He was indicted, convicted and sentenced to 30 days in jail. He remains free pending appeal."

And in the same newspaper you quoted:
lifesite.net/ldn/2005/nov/05112902.html

"Sweden’s Supreme Court has acquitted Pastor Ake Green of a charge of inciting hatred against homosexuals. The 5-0 ruling, handed down today, maintained that Green’s sermon was protected by freedom of speech and religion…

Chair of the court, Justice Johan Munck, commenting on the case, said that the judges had taken into consideration earlier judgements passed down by the Court of the European Union in Strassbourg, France. “If Ake Green had been convicted for incitement due to his sermon, then in all probability Sweden would have been rebuked in the European Court,” Munck said.

In an interview with Swedish Radio/Television, Munck added, “Considering the circumstances at hand, the Supreme Court finds that it’s likely that the European Court – if it were to adjudicate the case – would find it to be a violation of the European Conventions if Ake Green were convicted due to the statements in his sermon.”

Green, pastor of a Swedish Pentecostal church in Kalmar, Sweden, was given a 30-day suspended sentence in July, 2004, by a Swedish court for inciting hatred against homosexuals. He was prosecuted in January 2004 for “hate speech against homosexuals” for his sermon. In February 2005, an appeals court overturned the conviction, saying it is not unlawful to preach ones beliefs from the pulpit. "