Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

  • Thread starter Thread starter andrewp13
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

andrewp13

Guest
I’d like to hear some opinions on this video. Though I’m a member of the church, and I believe I always will be… he makes some valid points. Can one still maintain a healthy relationship with the Lord without following the views and such of the church?

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY
 
Just some super quick thoughts -

Of course he makes some valid points. I think the one that always sticks out to me the most is something like “People shouldn’t know you are Christian just from your Facebook”. So true! Christ does not call us to simply label ourselves as his follower and then do nothing about it!

But more importantly, his video does clearly makes numerous inaccurate statements. The links the two people above give great outlooks. Also, Fr. Barron has a great video to:

youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=TLta2b9zQ64

In bzkoss236’s, the author includes a quote that I assume is from the rapper in the video:

“If you are using my video to bash “the church” be careful. I was in no way intending to do that. My heart came from trying to highlight and expose legalism and hypocrisy. The Church is Jesus’ bride so be careful how you speak of His wife. If a normal dude has right to get pissed when you bash His wife, it makes me tremble to think how great the weight is when we do it to Jesus’ wife. The church is His vehicle to reach a lost word. A hospital for sinners. Saying you love Jesus but hate the Church, is like a fiancé saying he loves his future bride, but hates her kids. We are all under grace. Look to Him.”

Doesn’t seem to fit with what he said in his video…

Also, youtube.com/watch?v=63eRgwO7aR4&feature=related

He says that some things in his video should not be taken literally. He also says his intent was to ruffle feathers.

He also makes some other videos that still maintain a fairly good perspective on things too:
youtube.com/watch?v=I4OK9DmLpCY&list=UUc4yillQaNo6a-iG2PYbbrA&index=14&feature=plcp
 
Can one still maintain a healthy relationship with the Lord without following the views and such of the church?
No, you can not.

Christ Himself told us about the importance of the church, most notably in Matthew 16:18 when He said “you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church.” Not a church, or one church, but My church. Then he gave that church the authority to act in His name.

You can deceive yourself into thinking you have a healthy relationship with him, but you can not without doing all he has asked of us, including obeying the church.

Anyways, how can you accept the bible without accepting the church? The Catholic Church arranged and compiled the scriptures, because until almost 400AD, it was a loose and fluid collection of writings.
 
Hate Religion eh? Hmmmmmmm… And the 5th Joyful Mystery was …?

Jesus is to be found in the House of God. Not by hippies doing weed or the populace interpreting the 10 commandments as the ten suggestions…😃
 
Yeah, well, those people are wrong. 😛

If I have to hear that Fr. Romanides (?) quote about how “religion is a disease, Orthodoxy is the cure” or whatever garbage, I’m going to scream.
 
I’d like to hear some opinions on this video. Though I’m a member of the church, and I believe I always will be… he makes some valid points. Can one still maintain a healthy relationship with the Lord without following the views and such of the church?

youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY
I love the Truth, but I hate those things which bring be closer to it and help me understand it (logic, reason, the scientific method, etc). Yeah, doesn’t make much sense saying I hate the stuff that will allow me to discover and understand the thing I love. The “I love God, but hate religion” is basically “I love God, but hate the vehicle by which I can know, understand, and grow closer to Him with.”
 
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Gandhi

This quote speaks volumes.Our every action in the world causes others to see Christianity through us.If we show love of God and love ot our neighbour then we are presenting Christianity in the light Jesus taught us. If we are not displaying Christ’s love to others in the world,they will judge Christianity in a poor light.

When I was at school the nuns taught me that while I am wearing the school uniform I am representing the school and my every action reflects the school.

Our every action as Christians reflects the Church Jesus established. The onus is on us.

God bless
 
“Anyone can have religion. I’m talking about Faith.”

-George Burns as “God” from the 1977 movie “Oh, God!”
 
Well consider the Eucharist. As Catholics, it is our central religious ritual. Jesus COMMANDED his disciples to do it. St. Paul says, (I’m paraphrasing) as often as you eat the bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of The Lord until He comes again.

The Bible opposed to religion? I think not. 🙂
 
As a starting point of discussion…It is a pretty good video. As anything theologically valid…Not so much.

While he confuses his terms and understandings, there IS some validity to the idea of the hypocritical church-goer…To some extent we are ALL hypocrites - though we are trying to overcome it.

But one thing that Jumped out at me was where he said that religion says “do” but Jesus said “done”…He seems to be ignoring the lesson of the Good Samaritan, the judgement scene in Mt 25, the admonition in James 2 on the necessity of works…and many other examples of the need for “DO” in the life of the Christian…

Like I say - it’s a starting point…nothing more…

Peace
James
 
I heard that the person who made the video clarified that he intended to address hypocrisy. If that is the case then I think he should have made hypocrisy the topic rather than “religion”. As it stands, I think that most of the statements in the video may sound good to certain people, but actually convey bad theology and a poor understanding of the Bible.

Here are comments I made on this video about a year ago…

The text in purple are quotes from the video; my responses are in black:

"What if I told you, Jesus came to abolish religion?"
I would ask you why Jesus didn’t tell me this himself.
There’s lots of stuff Jesus said in the Bible, but “I came to abolish religion” isn’t in there.

"If religion is so great why has it started so many wars?"
It hasn’t started any wars. Economics are the real reason behind most wars, so make an anti-economics video.

"Why does it build huge churches…"
Like the Temple in which Jesus prayed, taught, paid the temple tax, and drove out money-changers?

"…but fails to feed the poor?"
The Catholic Church is one of the largest charity organizations in the world. Add the charities run by Orthodox Churches and Protestant denominations and you have the poor being fed in every corner of the world. My parish helped establish the local food bank, routinely staffs it with volunteers and takes up 12 collections each year to help support it.

"Tells single moms God does not love them if they’ve ever had a divorce"
Uh, exactly who ever said this?

"But in the Old Testament God actually calls religious people whores"
Yes, but the specific religious people being referred to were idolaters.

"Tend to ridicule God’s people; they did it to John the Baptist"
Uh, exactly who is doing this ridiculing of God’s people?
And John the Baptist was not ridiculed. The Pharisees questioned him and refused to accept him, and Herod Antipas imprisoned him and executed him, but I know of no instance of him being ridiculed.

"It’s just behavior modification…"
Ever hear of the Ten Commandments?

"…like a long list of chores"
Ever hear of the Book of Leviticus?

"I ain’t judging, I’m just saying…"
Well that’s good to know.

"Quite putting on a fake look, because there’s a problem if people only know you’re a Christian by your Facebook"
I thought you weren’t judging.

"Because if grace is water then the Church should be an ocean…"
My parish baptizes between 70 and 100 people a year. How’s that for some grace-filled water?

"…It’s not a museum for the righteous but a hospital for the broken"
My parish has an ER and an ICU. It’s called the confessional.

"I don’t have to hide my failure, I don’t have to hide my sin, because it doesn’t depend on me, it depends on Him"
A sentiment shared by every person who goes to the above-mentioned confessional.

"Which is why Jesus hated religion"
I didn’t know Jesus hated anything. And where in the Bible did Jesus say, “I hate religion”?
Maybe it’s in the place with that other hard to find passage about Jesus coming to abolish religion.

"Don’t you see it’s so much better than just following some rules?"
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

"But if Jesus came to your church, would they actually let him in?"
He’s already there.

"He was called a glutton and a drunkard by religious men"
And other religious men called him “Lord” and the “Son of God.”

"But the Son of God never supports self-righteousness, not now, not then."
This is very true!
As a matter-of-fact, every time I feel compelled to create a YouTube video to tell people what I think is the proper attitude they should have in order to be true Christians, I remind myself of the dangers of self-righteousness and refrain from doing it.

"Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free"
I would like to know of one thing that my religion has enslaved me to that Jesus wants to free me from.

"Religion is man searching for God while Christianity is God searching for man"
I thought Christianity was a religion.

"Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own, not based on my merits, but on Jesus’ obedience alone"
And this is a doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, all the Orthodox Churches and all the Protestant denominations. This guy acts like this is some sort of new revelation.

"That’s why I literally hate religion, in fact I resent it, because when Jesus said ‘It is finished’ I believe that he meant it"
And what exactly are you saying here? That when Jesus died on the cross it was supposed to be the end of religion? Then explain how you would have known that Jesus died on the cross for your sins without religion as a vehicle to preserve and teach this to every generation for 2000 years?

And I believe that when Jesus established the Church and gave his followers the Great Commission, he literally meant it.
Exactly how does a person have a Church and obey the Great Commission not in the context of a religion???
 
I heard that the person who made the video clarified that he intended to address hypocrisy. If that is the case then I think he should have made hypocrisy the topic rather than “religion”. As it stands, I think that most of the statements in the video may sound good to certain people, but actually convey bad theology and a poor understanding of the Bible.

Here are comments I made on this video about a year ago…

The text in purple are quotes from the video; my responses are in black:

"What if I told you, Jesus came to abolish religion?"
I would ask you why Jesus didn’t tell me this himself.
There’s lots of stuff Jesus said in the Bible, but “I came to abolish religion” isn’t in there.

"If religion is so great why has it started so many wars?"
It hasn’t started any wars. Economics are the real reason behind most wars, so make an anti-economics video.

"Why does it build huge churches…"
Like the Temple in which Jesus prayed, taught, paid the temple tax, and drove out money-changers?

"…but fails to feed the poor?"
The Catholic Church is one of the largest charity organizations in the world. Add the charities run by Orthodox Churches and Protestant denominations and you have the poor being fed in every corner of the world. My parish helped establish the local food bank, routinely staffs it with volunteers and takes up 12 collections each year to help support it.

"Tells single moms God does not love them if they’ve ever had a divorce"
Uh, exactly who ever said this?

"But in the Old Testament God actually calls religious people whores"
Yes, but the specific religious people being referred to were idolaters.

"Tend to ridicule God’s people; they did it to John the Baptist"
Uh, exactly who is doing this ridiculing of God’s people?
And John the Baptist was not ridiculed. The Pharisees questioned him and refused to accept him, and Herod Antipas imprisoned him and executed him, but I know of no instance of him being ridiculed.

"It’s just behavior modification…"
Ever hear of the Ten Commandments?

"…like a long list of chores"
Ever hear of the Book of Leviticus?

"I ain’t judging, I’m just saying…"
Well that’s good to know.

"Quite putting on a fake look, because there’s a problem if people only know you’re a Christian by your Facebook"
I thought you weren’t judging.

"Because if grace is water then the Church should be an ocean…"
My parish baptizes between 70 and 100 people a year. How’s that for some grace-filled water?

"…It’s not a museum for the righteous but a hospital for the broken"
My parish has an ER and an ICU. It’s called the confessional.

"I don’t have to hide my failure, I don’t have to hide my sin, because it doesn’t depend on me, it depends on Him"
A sentiment shared by every person who goes to the above-mentioned confessional.

"Which is why Jesus hated religion"
I didn’t know Jesus hated anything. And where in the Bible did Jesus say, “I hate religion”?
Maybe it’s in the place with that other hard to find passage about Jesus coming to abolish religion.

"Don’t you see it’s so much better than just following some rules?"
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” (John 14:15)

"But if Jesus came to your church, would they actually let him in?"
He’s already there.

"He was called a glutton and a drunkard by religious men"
And other religious men called him “Lord” and the “Son of God.”

"But the Son of God never supports self-righteousness, not now, not then."
This is very true!
As a matter-of-fact, every time I feel compelled to create a YouTube video to tell people what I think is the proper attitude they should have in order to be true Christians, I remind myself of the dangers of self-righteousness and refrain from doing it.

"Religion puts you in bondage, while Jesus sets you free"
I would like to know of one thing that my religion has enslaved me to that Jesus wants to free me from.

"Religion is man searching for God while Christianity is God searching for man"
I thought Christianity was a religion.

"Which is why salvation is freely mine, and forgiveness is my own, not based on my merits, but on Jesus’ obedience alone"
And this is a doctrine taught by the Catholic Church, all the Orthodox Churches and all the Protestant denominations. This guy acts like this is some sort of new revelation.

"That’s why I literally hate religion, in fact I resent it, because when Jesus said ‘It is finished’ I believe that he meant it"
And what exactly are you saying here? That when Jesus died on the cross it was supposed to be the end of religion? Then explain how you would have known that Jesus died on the cross for your sins without religion as a vehicle to preserve and teach this to every generation for 2000 years?

And I believe that when Jesus established the Church and gave his followers the Great Commission, he literally meant it.
Exactly how does a person have a Church and obey the Great Commission not in the context of a religion???
Brilliant! 👍
 
If religion is so bad, why did Christ himself practice religion? Did he follow the Jewish ritual law in a spirit of total disgust simply because he was supposed to fulfill the Law?

Religion means “re-linking” or “re-connecting”. It is a means for Christians to reconnect to God by certain practices. However, these practices have, as their goal, a closer union with God. They are not a guarantee of reconnection, but a means to an end.

We are social animals, and we DO things with each other as a means of socializing. A family goes to a theme park and rides roller coasters together and laughs, talks, and eats together as a way to bond. Yes, they have fun, but the point is to connect with each other.

Now, imagine if the same family went on the theme park trip and never said a single word to each other the whole time. How bizarre. They might as well go by themselves. They are going through to motions of the theme park, but they are not allowing it to reach the intended end: socializing with their family members. It becomes an empty activity.

Now, on the flip side, imagine the same family that sincerely wants to reconnect with each other. So they all take off work and school, and they simply sit in a bare room together. No theme park to go to, no activities to engage in, not even any photos to reminisce over. No food to eat together, no ANYTHING. Wouldn’t that be equally bizarre? Wouldn’t someone finally say, “Let’s go DO something together!”? They are denying a characteristic of human social behavior, and that is: we bond by sharing activities and experiences together.

Religion is like a theme park. It is a means of doing something to reconnect with God. The prayers and devotions we do for God and with God are activities that can build up our relationship with God. But we have to put effort into them and let God talk to us through them so that we can be changed. They are no guarantee of Divine intimacy, but they are proven means to it. Also, the rituals tend to reconnect us with previous prayer times and remind us of times of God’s consolation with prior difficulties. We are also connected with our fellow religionists who engage in the same activities, and thus gain a greater feel for the Mystical Body of Christ. But the important thing is that we use these means actively and not passively. They must change us. We can’t trust that these activities will change us by some magic.

Simply going through the motions of religion without really talking to God (or listening to God) is like the family that goes to the theme park but never speaks to one another. The activity is fruitless and empty. Even worse, it can make a person feel like they are on intimate terms with God because they do these things, and it can make them feel superior. This is pure legalism: I follow the rules and jump through the hoops (sometimes half heartedly), therefore I am right with God. This is what the Pharisees were accused of by Christ. The way out of this trap is humility before God and a desire to hear His voice speaking to you through your religious activities. It requires you to stop and listen, and acknowledge your own smallness.

Now, to the claim of the OP’s linked video: Simply praying to God and shunning all religion is like the family that sits in the bare room just to talk to each other. It is stark and boring. Your faith needs that real dimension to it. It needs to engage us embodied souls where we are. We are in a tangible world with senses that need to be engaged. We crave social activity.

When we relate to God in a purely spiritual way, we can also run the risk of denying Christ’s incarnation - his humanity. We can say, “God is pure spirit, so I should be too in my relationship with him.” Well, God became man in the person of Christ, and he was a devout Jew who prayed the ritual devotions of Judaism. He would not do something that is evil. Christ had a real body (and still does), so he understands relating to human beings on a corporal level. He’s okay with that. Our bodies are a part of us, and one day (God willing) they will be glorified in eternity.

So, it’s okay to engage in religion. We’re only human. But also remember that we need to listen to God and let him change us through our religion. Don’t rely on the activities to magically make you holy.
 
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Gandhi

This quote speaks volumes.Our every action in the world causes others to see Christianity through us.If we show love of God and love ot our neighbour then we are presenting Christianity in the light Jesus taught us. If we are not displaying Christ’s love to others in the world,they will judge Christianity in a poor light.

When I was at school the nuns taught me that while I am wearing the school uniform I am representing the school and my every action reflects the school.

Our every action as Christians reflects the Church Jesus established. The onus is on us.

God bless
Where did Gandhi say that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top