Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner

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lakotak

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You know I am finding this really, really, almost impossible, in this one case to hate the sin, yes, but love the sinner?

There are two teens on trial in Baltimore, MD for setting a young pitbull on fire. The dog finally had to be put down. But what that poor creature went through. The pictures just make you cry. Even the police officer that had to put the dog out was crying on the stand. I am finding it just about impossible to not just hate the sin in this case. How is it possible to love someone that would do something of this nature? I just can’t wrap my head around this. Any thought to how to deal with something like this would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
lakotak said:
You know I am finding this really, really, almost impossible, in this one case to hate the sin, yes, but love the sinner?

There are two teens on trial in Baltimore, MD for setting a young pitbull on fire. The dog finally had to be put down. But what that poor creature went through. The pictures just make you cry. Even the police officer that had to put the dog out was crying on the stand. I am finding it just about impossible to not just hate the sin in this case. How is it possible to love someone that would do something of this nature? I just can’t wrap my head around this. Any thought to how to deal with something like this would be appreciated.

Thanks
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How would you manifest hatred if you decided to hate these teens? Would it just be internal anger and fury and ill will and wishing bad things on them? Would you want to harm them? Would you cheer and be happy if they were sent to jail for a long time?

What would this hatred that you generate within you do to you? Do you think it might poison your soul? Do you think it would help you be holy?

What do you will for the teenagers? Do you want them to repent and go to heaven? Do you want them to be damned for their sin? Would you be happier if they experienced guilt and remorse and repentence? Do you want them freed from the evil of cruelty that they expressed?

Why did they torture the pit bull? Was it revenge? Was it hate? Do you want hate to indwell your soul as well?
 
Hmmmm…interesting…I often have problems too with loving the sinner while I hate what they do…but grandfather makes me think. It does poison our own soul when we hate in return. I desire peace within my own soul. It makes me feel closer to God and more hopeful. I will think of this too the next time I am tempted to spew hatred for someone in my own mind… thank you grandfather, I needed to hear this one. :amen:
 
Recognize that Love is not a feeling. Affection is a feeling and you may have no affection for these teens.

Love is an act of the will. A choice to desire the best for the other.

What is best for these teens? Jail? Fine? Death penalty? Probation? No response by the courts?

What is best. Love in action is doing or supporting the action that will bring about the best for the other. What they did may be despicable, but what we desire is to reform/rehabilitate them so they understand the evil they have cause, to repent of that evil, and to desire to never be complicite in such an act again.
 
Jesus knew Judas betrayed him (I’d be enraged) and yet when they came to arrest him he called Judas ‘friend’…

maybe in OT Israel these wicked kids (or should I say 2 kids with wicked behavior) would have been stoned or something…🤷… some sort of severe punishment
 
grandfather said:
How would you manifest hatred if you decided to hate these teens? Would it just be internal anger and fury and ill will and wishing bad things on them? Would you want to harm them? Would you cheer and be happy if they were sent to jail for a long time?

What would this hatred that you generate within you do to you? Do you think it might poison your soul? Do you think it would help you be holy?

What do you will for the teenagers? Do you want them to repent and go to heaven? Do you want them to be damned for their sin? Would you be happier if they experienced guilt and remorse and repentence? Do you want them freed from the evil of cruelty that they expressed?

Why did they torture the pit bull? Was it revenge? Was it hate? Do you want hate to indwell your soul as well?
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I think the best I could hope for would be that the two would be locked up for a very, very long time, or preferable, for life, so they would never have the opportunity to do this or worse again. Animal abusers, many times, turn to people abusers. I am sorry, I just can’t imagine someone doing something so cruel, there was absolutely no valid reason that this should have happened except that they wanted to see something die in a torturous manner.
 
lakotak said:
there was absolutely no valid reason that this should have happened except that they wanted to see something die in a torturous manner.
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That’s why we are called Not to judge… We Don’t know the whole circumstances of these boys lives, what sorts of abuse they might have lived through, that so twisted them to behave the way they did… even a biological mental disorder, something they can’t control themselves, but possibly with meds, could have made a difference in the outcome… had someone recognized their needs, before things got this bad…

~I~ can image reasons that, while not ~valid~, per se, are Valid Enough to a mind that’s been sickened and twisted by evil… so one might end up expressing the pain and anger they feel, over their own suffering, outwardly…

punishing someone who’s already hurting so much, that they hurt others, only makes things worse… Rehabilitation sometimes seems impossible, by the means we have, alone… but with God, Nothing is impossible.

God have mercy on these boys, and bring them the peace and healing they need to reach out for help.
 
I am in the midst of a struggle over an incident of horrific animal cruelty, also. In this case, a pit bull was tied down outside & left there all night in 18*F BELOW zero weather. The:( poor thing froze to the ground…but miraculously has survived, & is recovering in an animal hospital.
The authorities are refusing to release the name of the perpetrators and/or owners out of fear of what what someone may do to them. (There have been threats to tie THEM down & leave them to freeze)… I really, really am torn. On the one hand, I understand that the police are trying to prevent another crime. But I really, honestly, have to admit that I don’t want to stop reprisals. 😦
I totally agree that anyone who would torture an animal will be just as certain to turn around & do the same thing to a person. God only knows what abuse the poor creatures have suffered even before these dreadful events.
Personally, I think the whole lot of them need to be locked away forever where they can’t repeat their acts. Maybe this time, on their poor children…
And I know how this sounds, and how it is, and I can’t help it. (And I happen to be :oone of those people who is in terror of pit bulls…)
 
ConstantineTG said:
Lock them for life? For killing a dog?
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This kind of hate or behavior does not need to be let loose on society, yes, lock them away where their evil cannot not harm anyone or anything again until it can be determined if they can be “rehabilitated” at all.
 
Sometimes I feel the same way about abortionists (and those who advocate for abortion)…especially when I see pictures of children at the stage of growth they are in the womb when they are removed like a cancerous tumor. And that’s LEGAL. A person with a medical license can perform it.

We just have to look to our Lord and Savior at these times and know He has conquered all things, especially death. We have to ask for His love when we have fallen short on our own. Remember, He loves humanity, despite our human frailty. We need to trust in His Divine Justice, as well. Those babies killed in abortion do not die in vain.
 
OP I can understand the feeling of wanting to hate the sinner. For myself personally I follow that line of thought and most certainly haven’t been following Jesus’ call to love those that abuse you. In this day and age I couldn’t possibly love some sociopathic little punk like the ones you mentioned, and quite honestly I don’t believe the Catholic Church has ever followed those orders from Jesus either; other wise S. Italy would still be muslim as well as Sicily and Spain.

The only thing is OP when you end up hating the sinner you alienate pretty much the entire human race. For me personally I’m fine with that, if someone would ask I’d say I hate this abominable race that we are. Of course others wouldn’t be able to handle those kinds of feelings so I wouldn’t say Misanthrope beliefs are healthy for a persons spirit.
 
lakotak said:
This kind of hate or behavior does not need to be let loose on society, yes, lock them away where their evil cannot not harm anyone or anything again until it can be determined if they can be “rehabilitated” at all.
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Exactly!!

It may bear reminding folks, that this is EXACTLY how the Gestapo were trained to torture & murder their fellowmen: They were given dogs to raise, & then required to kill them in a variety of stomach turning ways.
After the war, many of these men admitted that once they tortured a few puppies that they were deeply attached to, that murdering other people was “nothing”.
Pychopaths & sociopaths cannot be cured. They can only be kept away from the rest of us.
 
Zooey said:
Exactly!!

It may bear reminding folks, that this is EXACTLY how the Gestapo were trained to torture & murder their fellowmen: They were given dogs to raise, & then required to kill them in a variety of stomach turning ways.
After the war, many of these men admitted that once they tortured a few puppies that they were deeply attached to, that murdering other people was “nothing”.
Pychopaths & sociopaths cannot be cured. They can only be kept away from the rest of us.
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There are some minds that have become terminal with evil and evil is all that these minds want to do, so the only sound thing to do is to lock them away from spreading their evil in society. I can only say that I hope they get the full extent of the law, which will probably, here in Maryland, not be very long. With the brutality with which this was carried out, they need to be out of society, but with our laws, I don’t know. It is extremely hard to love a person whose mind could do something like this.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Lock them for life? For killing a dog?
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Wow… I hope I misunderstand you, otherwise I find your post… very disgusting.

I DO believe they should be locked away for life. Not for “killing a dog”, but for LIGHTING A DOG ON FIRE.

While I cannot know the circumstances here, this wasn’t some quick death.
This wasn’t self defense, it wasn’t putting an animal out of it’s misery, it wasn’t juvenile idiocy… it was two very disturbed boys SPECIFICALLY making an animal suffer.

These are signs of sociopathic behavior.
 
Evan said:
Recognize that Love is not a feeling. Affection is a feeling and you may have no affection for these teens.

Love is an act of the will. A choice to desire the best for the other.

What is best for these teens? Jail? Fine? Death penalty? Probation? No response by the courts?

What is best. Love in action is doing or supporting the action that will bring about the best for the other. What they did may be despicable, but what we desire is to reform/rehabilitate them so they understand the evil they have cause, to repent of that evil, and to desire to never be complicite in such an act again.
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Love is to will the good of the other.

What is best for these teenagers is what is best for me. That is conversion.

If you will their conversion that means you love them, but if you will their conversion you will also work for it, meaning you will pray for them.

You may judge their acts, but not their souls. As you judge you will be judged.

Cruelty is a terrible thing. Are we sure we have never done anytyhing cruel? Cruelty is like lust. It is in the heart. You might not have committed the crime, but if it is in your heart you are guilty.
 
Suni_Moon said:
Wow… I hope I misunderstand you, otherwise I find your post… very disgusting.

I DO believe they should be locked away for life. Not for “killing a dog”, but for LIGHTING A DOG ON FIRE.

While I cannot know the circumstances here, this wasn’t some quick death.
This wasn’t self defense, it wasn’t putting an animal out of it’s misery, it wasn’t juvenile idiocy… it was two very disturbed boys SPECIFICALLY making an animal suffer.

These are signs of sociopathic behavior.
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While I wouldn’t argue with your psychological analysis of the behavior, fact is the target of the crime is an animal. Should we be punishing people for psychological tendencies instead of actual crimes committed? Should we assume bigger criminal tendencies where there is no actual evidence that they have committed one? Wow, they burned a dog, maybe they’ll mass murder 50 people next time. Thats it? Just like that?

Mind you, many kids play with bugs all the time, oftentimes maiming them. Do we send them to psychiatric wards while they are young?
 
Suni_Moon said:
These are signs of sociopathic behavior.
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There are a lot of sick kids in our society. We seem to produce them. What happened in Arizona was inevitable. A sick society produces sick individuals. Expect to see more of it. If you think the should be locked up for life, I wonder what you think should be done with physicians who torture unborn babies to death, or those who are born, like the story out of PA this week.

We are murdering innocents at a rate of over a million a year in this country only. Do you think such a society, its schools and institutionsare going to produce holy souls?

We are so sick and confused we can’t even figure out men marry women anymore. How can this even be seriously discussed. But if you can murder fifty million babies, and it is sanctioned by the government it is no surprise that kids are cruel, is it?

We are probably worse than pagan Rome that tortured Jesus to death.
 
ConstantineTG said:
While I wouldn’t argue with your psychological analysis of the behavior, fact is the target of the crime is an animal. Should we be punishing people for psychological tendencies instead of actual crimes committed? Should we assume bigger criminal tendencies where there is no actual evidence that they have committed one? Wow, they burned a dog, maybe they’ll mass murder 50 people next time. Thats it? Just like that?

Mind you, many kids play with bugs all the time, oftentimes maiming them. Do we send them to psychiatric wards while they are young?
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No. Because they’re BUGS. They are INSECTS.

Don’t compare plucking the wings off flies and burning ants at a young age to burning a dog alive as a young adult. Do you really think these scenarios are the same?

There’s a crucial difference. No actual evidence? Yes. Yes there is actual evidence.
I’d like to ask… Where would you draw the line here? OH, they didn’t hurt a PERSON, they just made a mistake?

So we let them go, and say the same thing when they kill another dog? Microwave a cat? Is the line only drawn when they kill a person, and then we all shrug, and act like we didn’t see the signs?

(Also, is it me… Or do an oddly high number of Christians act like human beings are the only living creatures deserving ethical treatment?)
 
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