Hate vs. Strong Dislike?

[JoeFreedom]

1 John 3:15: Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

My dilemma is this. Every summer, there are a multitude of birds that migrate north again to the exact same area around my house. These birds, I think mostly sparrows, among others, will begin LOUD chirping at 4:30 AM. The decibel level of these birds is so obnoxious, that my wife and I need to close our windows in order to be able to sleep, and even still, their obnoxious chirping is repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, (you get the picture) and loud, and it goes on for hours. I’ve finally resorted to closing the windows AND putting in ear plugs just to be able to sleep.

These birds also love to swoop in and swarm in my garage every time I open it and it causes me extra time to shoo them out. They made a nest one year on top of the garage door opener, and I have a feeling that’s why I needed a new one this year.

And on top of everything else, they do their special “duty” everywhere.

I hate these birds. I can’t sleep, and if I do, I have to close the windows in the hot summer and get awakened every morning just to put in cumbersome ear plugs.

Is my emotion a strong dislike or hate, and if it is hate, is this mortal? I can’t stand these freaking birds. I know God created all the creatures and they are just doing what they do, but how in the world can I just dismiss them?

 

[Della]

Instead of hating the birds, who are only doing what birds do, you might consider taking some preventative measures to keep them away from your house and garage. A couple of things you can do:

Put up strings of something reflective like mirrors. Small birds don’t like these–it throws them off.

Put up a replica(s) of a bird of prey, such as an owl or hawk.

If possible, play loud music or other discordant noises to discourage them from coming to your property.

You local municipality may have some other ideas if this is a problem that others in the area have also had.

We live in nature, so we have to find ways to accommodate it. Your local Humane Society or bird organization may also have some suggestions.

 

[PietroPaolo]

1 John 3:15: Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

My dilemma is this. Every summer, there are a multitude of birds that migrate north again to the exact same area around my house. These birds, I think mostly sparrows, among others, will begin LOUD chirping at 4:30 AM. The decibel level of these birds is so obnoxious, that my wife and I need to close our windows in order to be able to sleep, and even still, their obnoxious chirping is repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, (you get the picture) and loud, and it goes on for hours. I’ve finally resorted to closing the windows AND putting in ear plugs just to be able to sleep.

These birds also love to swoop in and swarm in my garage every time I open it and it causes me extra time to shoo them out. They made a nest one year on top of the garage door opener, and I have a feeling that’s why I needed a new one this year.

And on top of everything else, they do their special “duty” everywhere.

I hate these birds. I can’t sleep, and if I do, I have to close the windows in the hot summer and get awakened every morning just to put in cumbersome ear plugs.

Is my emotion a strong dislike or hate, and if it is hate, is this mortal? I can’t stand these freaking birds. I know God created all the creatures and they are just doing what they do, but how in the world can I just dismiss them?

You’re fine. Two points:

1. Jesus is referring to hatred of other human beings, not to animals. It’s not mortally sinful to hate an animal. Think for example about someone who hates snakes or spiders. Such isn’t a sin. This is obvious from the immediate context, “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer” It isn’t “murder” to kill a bird, thus Jesus isn’t forbidding hating birds anymore than he forbids killing them.
2. Hate, in the sense Jesus is speaking of, isn’t an emotional state. We can’t control our emotional states and thus they can’t be commanded. “Hate” here is the opposite of “love” defined not as “a warm fuzzy feeling” but as St Thomas defined it: “to love anything is nothing else than to will good to that thing” (Aquinas, S.T. I, Q. 20, A. 2, co). Thus, to hate someone is to will evil to them. This is what Jesus is forbidding.

 

[JoeFreedom]

You’re fine. Two points:

1. Jesus is referring to hatred of other human beings, not to animals. It’s not mortally sinful to hate an animal. Think for example about someone who hates snakes or spiders. Such isn’t a sin. This is obvious from the immediate context, “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer” It isn’t “murder” to kill a bird, thus Jesus isn’t forbidding hating birds anymore than he forbids killing them.
2. Hate, in the sense Jesus is speaking of, isn’t an emotional state. We can’t control our emotional states and thus they can’t be commanded. “Hate” here is the opposite of “love” defined not as “a warm fuzzy feeling” but as St Thomas defined it: “to love anything is nothing else than to will good to that thing” (Aquinas, S.T. I, Q. 20, A. 2, co). Thus, to hate someone is to will evil to them. This is what Jesus is forbidding.

Ah! Thanks for the clarification in #2. I was really always confused about that. So it is the willing thinking of wishing another person evil that constitutes the hate. It is not so much, I hate that jerk who cut me off on the road almost making me crash cuz he’s a jerk" - hate. That’s just anger, although sinful, not mortal. Am I right?

Instead of hating the birds, who are only doing what birds do, you might consider taking some preventative measures to keep them away from your house and garage. A couple of things you can do:

Put up strings of something reflective like mirrors. Small birds don’t like these–it throws them off.

Put up a replica(s) of a bird of prey, such as an owl or hawk.

If possible, play loud music or other discordant noises to discourage them from coming to your property.

You local municipality may have some other ideas if this is a problem that others in the area have also had.

We live in nature, so we have to find ways to accommodate it. Your local Humane Society or bird organization may also have some suggestions.

Sigh, unfortunately, most of the trees are in the neighbors yards and I still hear them. I have nothing to hang mirrors on around my yard, and like I said, it wouldn’t matter too much since their decibel level is still incredibly loud even a few houses over. My neighbors also encourage the birds by hanging bird feeders to make the situation worse. Playing loud music would be disrespectful to my neighbors and would also negate the point of me sleeping during the loud music at 4am. I’ve looked into something called BirdX, which makes stuff for this, but the cheapest one is $500 and it makes a lot of noise. It is more for the top of commercial buildings where no humans go, not for residential, because it is noisy. The ones that emit ultrasonic sound cost in the thousands, money I don’t have for some stinking birds.

I do like your suggestion of contacting a bird society, although I am a bit wary they are probably more “pro-bird” and have more ideas on how to attract them and love them then they do to get rid of them. :doh2:

 

[MaryT777]

You’re fine. Two points:

1. Jesus is referring to hatred of other human beings, not to animals. It’s not mortally sinful to hate an animal. Think for example about someone who hates snakes or spiders. Such isn’t a sin. This is obvious from the immediate context, “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer” It isn’t “murder” to kill a bird, thus Jesus isn’t forbidding hating birds anymore than he forbids killing them.
2. Hate, in the sense Jesus is speaking of, isn’t an emotional state. We can’t control our emotional states and thus they can’t be commanded. “Hate” here is the opposite of “love” defined not as “a warm fuzzy feeling” but as St Thomas defined it: “to love anything is nothing else than to will good to that thing” (Aquinas, S.T. I, Q. 20, A. 2, co). Thus, to hate someone is to will evil to them. This is what Jesus is forbidding.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Ah! Thanks for the clarification in #2. I was really always confused about that. So it is the willing thinking of wishing another person evil that constitutes the hate. It is not so much, I hate that jerk who cut me off on the road almost making me crash cuz he’s a jerk" - hate. That’s just anger, although sinful, not mortal. Am I right?

Exactly. Even the uncontrolled anger, if unwanted and unindulged in, isn’t in itself sinful. Sins are always and only acts of the will, never “feelings.”

 

[CrazyDoodle101]

Just saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re hating the birds themselves, but you’re just hating what they’re doing, and that’s perfectly fine.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Just saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re hating the birds themselves, but you’re just hating what they’re doing, and that’s perfectly fine.

I suppose I never considered that. I guess I do hate what they’re doing. I really don’t mind the birds themselves, just their stupid annoying not-making-me-sleep-building-nests-in-my-garage-pooping-on-my-car attitudes. Maybe if they’d be more quiet and build their nests in the trees, I’d stop by a chat with them rather than swinging my broom at them while in the garage and grumbling about them keeping me awake.

 

[Della]

If you can’t help but hear them, then the only thing you can do is plug your ears.

About keeping them out of the garage, I assume you keep it closed when you’re not using it. But when you’re in it take a soaker gun with you and blast them with it if they try to come in. . That might give them the message. I did that with the crows that were stealing bird see from our feeders and it worked pretty well. Or you could try suspending the image of a bird of prey in the doorway–such as a hawk.

Bird protection groups want to protect them by helping people deal with their ways. You could call the Audubon Society to see what they’d suggest, as well. You might be pleasantly surprised at their response. In any case, it can’t hurt.

 

[John_Lazarus]

Just saying, it doesn’t sound like you’re hating the birds themselves, but you’re just hating what they’re doing, and that’s perfectly fine.

Hate the sing, love the singer?

 

[BartholomewB]

Joe Freedom

There’s a mystery here that needs to be explained. Compare this:

These birds, I think mostly sparrows, among others, will begin LOUD chirping at 4:30 AM. The decibel level of these birds is so obnoxious, that my wife and I need to close our windows in order to be able to sleep, and even still, their obnoxious chirping is repetitive, repetitive, repetitive, (you get the picture) and loud, and it goes on for hours.

… with this:

My neighbors also encourage the birds by hanging bird feeders to make the situation worse.

If the chirping begins so early, is so loud, so repetitive, and so obnoxious, how do you explain the curious fact that your neighbors are not equally inconvenienced by it? You tell us that they actually go out of their way to encourage the birds, by putting food out for them. There’s something here that doesn’t add up. Are your neighbors deaf, perhaps? In the present case that would be an advantage rather than a disability. But are ***all ***your neighbors deaf?

 

[mikekle]

In the house I used to live in, I remember this was a problem during certain times of the year, I very much remember those birds starting to chirp VERY early, they would wake me up every day, and I could never get back to sleep! Even with the windows closed it did not help that much, they can be very loud.

I heard my brother say once, he sleeps with a fan on high, all the time, I started doing this and it helped alot, I finally got used to the monotone noise of the fan, and it would drown out everything else, plus it kept me cool in the summer. Now, I dont think I could get to sleep without a fan on high.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Joe Freedom

There’s a mystery here that needs to be explained. Compare this:

… with this:

If the chirping begins so early, is so loud, so repetitive, and so obnoxious, how do you explain the curious fact that your neighbors are not equally inconvenienced by it? You tell us that they actually go out of their way to encourage the birds, by putting food out for them. There’s something here that doesn’t add up. Are your neighbors deaf, perhaps? In the present case that would be an advantage rather than a disability. But are ***all ***your neighbors deaf?

My neighbors next door are older (and no offense) don’t hear well and are deep sleepers. They’ve told me. Most of my other neighbors run their air conditioner constantly, so they have their windows closed. I on the other hand, keep my air off unless absolutely necessary, and thus my windows are open. And besides, who says they aren’t bothered? I don’t know all my neighbors. Add to that fact that not everyone is necessarily vocal about it? Plus, I have learned in a few instances with some of the neighbors I know less well, that they have been bothered by other instances of things going bump in the night, so yes, they do get bothered, but maybe they are in the same position and really have no idea what to do either.

Your tone seems to be accusatory that I am overstating my case or lying? (Also: see: mikekle’s post above, I’m not the only one…)

Also one of my neighbors don’t seem to care that birds are nesting on their garage door opener. And like I said, they cost me money by ruining my garage door opener. If my neighbors don’t care about that, that is their problem.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

My neighbors next door are older (and no offense) don’t hear well and are deep sleepers. They’ve told me. Most of my other neighbors run their air conditioner constantly, so they have their windows closed. I on the other hand, keep my air off unless absolutely necessary, and thus my windows are open. And besides, who says they aren’t bothered? I don’t know all my neighbors. Add to that fact that not everyone is necessarily vocal about it? Plus, I have learned in a few instances with some of the neighbors I know less well, that they have been bothered by other instances of things going bump in the night, so yes, they do get bothered, but maybe they are in the same position and really have no idea what to do either.

Your tone seems to be accusatory that I am overstating my case or lying? (Also: see: mikekle’s post above, I’m not the only one…)

Also one of my neighbors don’t seem to care that birds are nesting on their garage door opener. And like I said, they cost me money by ruining my garage door opener. If my neighbors don’t care about that, that is their problem.

About the noise - get a white noise machine and it will drown out the chirping. As for the other inconveniences, it sounds like you are obsessing about these birds. Try praying to God for strength to deal with them and for inner peace. These birds may be some kind of test.

 

[JoeFreedom]

About the noise - get a white noise machine and it will drown out the chirping. As for the other inconveniences, it sounds like you are obsessing about these birds. Try praying to God for strength to deal with them and for inner peace. These birds may be some kind of test.

Do have a white noise machine. Unfortunately doesn’t help. And I should have mentioned, it isn’t just me, they wake up my wife, she gets irritated being awakened every morning at 4 to 4:30 too. As far as a test, I’m not sure what kind of test this would be?

 

[Della]

The only thing I can suggest, under the circumstances is to close your windows until the invasion is over. You can’t stop the birds from coming and chirping, so the only thing left is to accommodate them or go crazy. If it were me, I accommodate them–it’s much simpler in the long run and less of a hassle.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Do have a white noise machine. Unfortunately doesn’t help. And I should have mentioned, it isn’t just me, they wake up my wife, she gets irritated being awakened every morning at 4 to 4:30 too. As far as a test, I’m not sure what kind of test this would be?

a test of your patience of course! I know what you mean about birds though. Some of them are extremely irritating, especially when you are trying to sleep!
Here’s a poem that might make you laugh:

I woke early one morning,
the earth lay cool and still
when suddenly a tiny bird
perched on my window sill.

He sang a song so lovely
so carefree and so gay,
that slowly all my troubles
began to slip away.

He sang of far off places
of laughter and of fun,
It seemed his very trilling,
brought up the morning sun.

I stirred beneath the covers
crept slowly out of bed,
and gently lowered the window
and crushed his ****ing head

 

[JoeFreedom]

…
I stirred beneath the covers
crept slowly out of bed,
and gently lowered the window
and crushed his ****ing head

Definitely a LOL!

I almost did this morning too… literally. One of those twerps swooped in again this morning and terrorized my wife. Then it proceeded to perche on the cord to the garage door opener, so I quickly got the broom and snuck up on it and swung but it flew out, circled the driveway and dive-bombed the garage again. I swung, strike two. It flew back and continued to circle, thinking more about it’s desire to illegally inhabit my garage and finally settled with it’s tail towards me on the gutter of the roof immediately above my garage, where it couldn’t see me since it was facing the other way. I knew it couldn’t see me underneath the overhang, so I had a great chance to smash it’s behind and give him a nice little spanking for not paying garage rent. He bolted a split second before my broom landed! Dang!

In any case, I think I lost the test of patience here, but honestly, I’m pretty sure to a very high degree, that my patience test was held elsewhere for other things, but that’s a different story.

I finally turned on the air conditioning last night so I could close the windows and not hear the “airplane engines” chirping outside, and I hate turning on the air, unless it is in the high 90’s, but alas, this is the ONLY way (fans, white noise machines, earplugs, etc. just don’t cut it) to actually get some sleep.

I also contacted the Audubon Society the morning through an email at their Web site like ‘della’ suggested, so let’s see what they say. I basically told them nicely that I need to know a humane way to keep them out of my garage, because if they don’t, these birds will meet the fate of bat and broom, and we all know we don’t want it to have to come to that, but if the birds want to play, then let the games begin!

 

[GLam8833]

What an interesting thread! Thanks JoeFreedom for it,
it might be a special blessing to share this with us,
we, as fellow members of the body of Christ suffer
w/ you!!! “if one member suffers, we all suffer” 1 Cor.
12:26