Hateful attacks towards Catholics

[Kurusunami]

Catholicism is a rather ludicrous business, what with having to pay for everything from sinning to divorce to support. And there’s a lot more than you need for maintaining the church.

Do most members of this forum only reply to the original poster and not the people that post after him? It’s a forum, not an imageboard or blog, guys.

 

[BlestOne]

I firmly believe that Ant-Catholicism is the new prejudice. Nope… oldest and last acceptable prejudice.

Please read this (written by A CHRISTIAN!) and tell me if these words are at all Christ-like:
"You need to learn more about the heresies of Roman Catholicism, well at least learn SOMETHING about Roman Catholicism before you shoot of your mouth about it! To say that some of the major doctrines of Roman Catholicism are off, shows that you have hardly (if any) knowledge of Roman Catholicism! Roman Catholicism is complete HERESY and GARBAGE! How so? Make him responsible for supporting his statement… as you can see below, he lists his credentials…

I was born and raised in an area that was and is 85% Roman Catholic! The Roman Catholic Church Rectory where the Priests lived was 8 houses away from my parents house! My wife was raised in Roman Catholicism. You have NO IDEA whatsoever how evil and deadly Roman Catholicism is!! So… living in a heavily Catholic area AND next to a rectory and marrying a Catholic girl is sufficient to make him an expert? He still has not supported what he thinks is heresy. Again… how is the Catholic Church is in heresy? Don’t back down until you get a reason. He makes the claim, he needs to back it up with facts. Tolerate it if you wish, that is your choice! NOT a wise one by any stretch of the imagination, but YOUR choice just the same! But DON’T make foolish statements about something that you have absolutely NO IDEA about!! I am tempted to say the same back to him, but be polite and actually agree that one shouldn’t speak about that which he has no knowledge. Also acknowledge that we all have free will and he is correct about that. You may want to remind him that free will is a gift from God.

Saying that Catholicism is not evil is ridiculous! The garbage of Roman Catholicism is straight from the PITS OF HELL !!! You have NO IDEA whatsoever what you are talking about!"

• I choose not to name the offender at this point. Again… accusation but nothing to back it up. Keep pressing for why he thinks the Catholic Church is in heresy, why it is straight from the pits of hell, why it is garbage… He just keeps repeating the same thing and not giving you any proofs why he thinks that… you need to make him prove what he is saying. Use pure logic here… we haven’t even gotten to why yet because he hasn’t said why.

I am not trying to start anything I just need some instruction on what to do in the face of such hate. I wish we could band together, make our voices hear and be seen as people who love Christ…and are deserving of His love.
Thank you and pax vobiscum, peace be with you all.

My experience with these types is that they will banty around accusations and allegations but never give you a straight answer if you don’t specifically ask them for proof repeatedly. At the end of your conversations always tell him that you will pray for him. If he is being antagonistic, he will make a snide comment back, but if he is sincere, he will learn that he should act like a christian and speak with love and concern not condemnation.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Catholicism is a rather ludicrous business, what with having to pay for everything from sinning to divorce to support. And there’s a lot more than you need for maintaining the church.

Do most members of this forum only reply to the original poster and not the people that post after him? It’s a forum, not an imageboard or blog, guys.

Hi Kurusunami. No we normally reply to all who post in the forums but you need to be patient since a lot of us do other things and post in many different topic areas and are busy. In your case frankly I am trying to figure out what “your story is” since I get quite a mixed message and you seem to have some personal issues.

Besides the persecution complex that you seem to think Christians have against non-Christians do you have something specific against the Catholic Church?

James

 

[BlestOne]

Catholicism is a rather ludicrous business, what with having to pay for everything from sinning to divorce to support. And there’s a lot more than you need for maintaining the church.

Do most members of this forum only reply to the original poster and not the people that post after him? It’s a forum, not an imageboard or blog, guys.

Start your own thread if you want to ask a question but you are showing extreme ignorance just making accusations. We don’t pay for sinning, we don’t pay the Church for divorces as they are a civil matter.

 

[Teflon93]

We also tend not to feed the trolls.

Putting nonsense such as “I’m not giving out my address so you can send death threats to me” in the “Location” field of a profile screams “Troll!” to me.

This will be my only response. I don’t feed trolls.

 

[Kurusunami]

Let me make my position clear: I am not religious, (Atheist if you would like to put a word on it) nor have I ever been. I am not explicitly against religion, but I dislike its practice, but will not act to stop it unless it is obviously irresponsible, dangerous, or ludicrously untruthful. I highly dislike and will strike back at people who attempt to force religion on me or others. I acknowledge the support religion gives to those that are going through turbulent times in life, but cannot bring myself to believe. I am not here in this forum to troll. I am here to have some good arguments, since reasoned arguments are fun. I am also here to see the views of others, and perhaps try to convince them to become more open-minded.

BlestOne, it’s my fault on not being clear, I was hurrying a bit. In the modern age, I’m not sure if the practices are still held. But Indulgences, remission for sins, were often sold, not given. By divorce, I meant remarriage, and should have stated so. Annulments require payments, and this particular one is still in practice. Sorry for not being clear, again.

BlestOne:

[Against the note OP posted]My experience with these types is that they will banty around accusations and allegations but never give you a straight answer if you don’t specifically ask them for proof repeatedly. At the end of your conversations always tell him that you will pray for him. If he is being antagonistic, he will make a snide comment back, but if he is sincere, he will learn that he should act like a christian and speak with love and concern not condemnation.

YOU are showing extreme ignorance by just making accusations, generalizations, and stereotypes.

CentralFLJames, I don’t mean the fact that people don’t post, I mean the fact that people do post then ignore every post below the OP’s post. But I’m probably wrong here, so disregard that.

EDIT: Teflon, I use that location message in several forums, not just this one. It’s a joke. Have some lulz in your life. I’ve been hunted by dox gatherers. It’s not a fun experience. I’m making logical arguments, and try to avoid disrespect and personal attacks when needed.

 

[rudytoo72]

My fourth grade daughter became friends with a girl in her class. I went over to their home to meet them. They grilled me like crazy. But everything was fine until the mom asked what church we belonged to. I told her the name and you should have seen her face! She said, “Oh, you’re CATHOLIC?!” The way she said it you’d think it was a dirty word that she just couldn’t bring herself to say. I later found out that they are “non-denominational.” So from then on, they kept sending stuff home with my daugher trying to get us to come to their “church.” I told my daughter to tell them thanks, but we are Catholic and were not interested in changing religions. Then her daughter started telling mine things that her parents were saying. They told her that all Catholics go to hell and cannot enter heaven. And that they are better than us because they have more money and are not Catholic. That level of hatred and ignorance really took me by surprise. Most people are not nosy enough to ask what your religion is. And if they find out, they never react negatively. This just threw me. Needless to say, my daughter doesn’t go there anymore. I told her to be kind to the girl, but they no longer spend time together outside of school.

 

[BlestOne]

I am here to have some good arguments, since reasoned arguments are fun. I am also here to see the views of others, and perhaps try to convince them to become more open-minded.

Here you are just saying you are only here to argue because it is fun…and to see the views of others… that is fine, but just remember, those who do have faith are open minded… they had the faith to believe that which is not seen.

BlestOne, it’s my fault on not being clear, I was hurrying a bit. In the modern age, I’m not sure if the practices are still held. But Indulgences, remission for sins, were often sold, not given. By divorce, I meant remarriage, and should have stated so. Annulments require payments, and this particular one is still in practice. Sorry for not being clear, again.

Indulgences were not meant to be sold and indeed this was addressed many years ago, starting with Luther. This took place in a confined area and timeline… Remarriage is not a specific fee or charge different than any other marriage… you pay a fee to use the Church for the ceremony, but that isn’t what you meant… I understand you meant decree of nullity or as commonly called annulment. Do you understand what they are? Basically, if a person feels they have cause for one, they are saying that they believe that their marriage was not a valid union. They ask the tribunal to investigate and the fee is for the administrative services and investigative services of the tribunal not a fee to get an annulment. You have this fee whether you are granted a decree of nullity or not… but from experience, I can tell you that if you don’t have the funds, they waive the fees or your parish pays it for you.

BlestOne:

My experience with these types is that they will banty around accusations and allegations but never give you a straight answer if you don’t specifically ask them for proof repeatedly. At the end of your conversations always tell him that you will pray for him. If he is being antagonistic, he will make a snide comment back, but if he is sincere, he will learn that he should act like a christian and speak with love and concern not condemnation.

YOU are showing extreme ignorance by just making accusations, generalizations, and stereotypes.

I don’t think I am showing ignorance by saying that in my experience this is typical… I am telling the OP what my experience is with the type of person that makes accusations like that. Am I generalizing… I am generalizing my experience… had the OP asked about experiences with Lutherans or Baptists, my answers would have been different. Did I stereotype… I didn’t name the group and then make generalizations about them…

 

[Kurusunami]

I’ve been sent enough brochures attempting to convert me to Catholicism to not have pity. But still, try to get along. If they send you things, ignore it and act as if they didn’t exist. If they bring up the subject, refuse to discuss it. You simply don’t have to reply. A good way for your families to make up, if it’s not too late already, is to visit a Unitarian Universalist church, which promotes the seeking of spiritual comfort and truth without regard to religion. Talk to each other, and find things you can agree on.

EDIT: This was for rudy, you people post so fast. as to Blest:

BlestOne:

but just remember, those who do have faith are open minded… they had the faith to believe that which is not seen.

Yet they do not have the faith to believe that which can be seen?

BlestOne:

[Snip]
I understand you meant decree of nullity or as commonly called annulment. Do you understand what they are? Basically, if a person feels they have cause for one, they are saying that they believe that their marriage was not a valid union. They ask the tribunal to investigate and the fee is for the administrative services and investigative services of the tribunal not a fee to get an annulment. You have this fee whether you are granted a decree of nullity or not… but from experience, I can tell you that if you don’t have the funds, they waive the fees or your parish pays it for you

You are right on the rest of the paragraph, and I will do better in reading up on what I’m talking about. Still, saying that “that first marriage was just practice/a joke/not serious/etc” is not a practice I agree with, but we can keep our views. I can’t change it, but wouldn’t a view that accepted that marriages can be hasty, and that previous marriages could exist, but could be said to not have been good ones?

BlestOne:

I don’t think I am showing ignorance by saying that in my experience this is typical… I am telling the OP what my experience is with the type of person that makes accusations like that. Am I generalizing… I am generalizing my experience… had the OP asked about experiences with Lutherans or Baptists, my answers would have been different. Did I stereotype… I didn’t name the group and then make generalizations about them…

In your experience, it is typical. I’m sure you’ve met some very good people who simply did not believe, and criticized it out of disbelief. Thus,

BlestOne:

Did I stereotype… I didn’t name the group and then make generalizations about them…

You named them with “these types” and made generalizations with “they”.

Okay, this is going to spiral into a flame war if we keep at it. Why don’t we just end the matter on something we might be able to agree with?

Christian religions are the majority in the US. All religions are attacked, but attacks on Christian religions are more prevalent in the public eye because there are more targets, and therefore more people to report it, and reporting is not discouraged by the fact that one is in the minority. All religions receive attacks, probability just makes it that the overwhelming amounts of people of Christian faiths receive them more often.

 

[BlestOne]

A good way for your families to make up, if it’s not too late already, is to visit a Unitarian Universalist church, which promotes the seeking of spiritual comfort and truth without regard to religion. Talk to each other, and find things you can agree on.

I totally disagree… that would be a denial of your Catholic beliefs. When salvation is at stake one should never compromise their beliefs because of someone elses ignorance. I would just throw away any tracts you get… if you feel it is excessive, ask the woman politely to stop, if she doesn’t talk to your dd’s school about the problem… she can’t distribute the stuff at school.

 

[Kurusunami]

I totally disagree… that would be a denial of your Catholic beliefs. When salvation is at stake one should never compromise their beliefs because of someone elses ignorance. I would just throw away any tracts you get… if you feel it is excessive, ask the woman politely to stop, if she doesn’t talk to your dd’s school about the problem… she can’t distribute the stuff at school.

I don’t think it’s a denial of belief, you’re just focusing on one aspect of your belief that is shared with another belief. And yeah, she can’t force those things on you. She can’t give them out in school, as Blest says, and if they do, get someone to stop them. Same applies to you, get someone to stop them if they’re persistent to the point of harassment.

 

[YourAverageJoe]

BlestOne, it’s my fault on not being clear, I was hurrying a bit. In the modern age, I’m not sure if the practices are still held. But Indulgences, remission for sins, were often sold, not given. By divorce, I meant remarriage, and should have stated so. Annulments require payments, and this particular one is still in practice. Sorry for not being clear, again.

.

K,

you are correct about the abuses in the Church, there have been abuses for over 2000 years and there will continue to be. How do I know this, because Jesus told us so, “woe to those who through scandals come” and later, “do not be scandalized in my name”. We are not to jump ship just because of abuses that have popped up here in there, including pedophelia. Inspite of police corruption, will you not call for police help if your life is in danger?? Be it not!

But there is a big difference between what the Church teaches and what sinners, albiet clergy or laypeople do that cause scandal. For that I am sorry!

To anwer your question, Catholics can not remarry if the first marriage was consecrated and the Church deems it to be valid until death of one of the participants…Annulments are marriages that after investigation by the Church are deemed unfit. If for example, it has been learned that one party was threatened into marriage by the other, or was one party was mentallly incapacitated somehow from making a good conscience decision (being drunk is one), than these situations might represent a case for annulment. Just like Contract Law, you can not sign a contract if one party is mentally impaired, or threatened to sign by the other, the contract therefore becomes invalid. Annulments do cost money only because it requires people to step away from their normal activity to investigate a particular case…

In Christ

 

[Kurusunami]

Thank you, I admitted I was wrong. What do you think about:

Kurusunami:

Okay, this is going to spiral into a flame war if we keep at it. Why don’t we just end the matter on something we might be able to agree with?

Christian religions are the majority in the US. All religions are attacked, but attacks on Christian religions are more prevalent in the public eye because there are more targets, and therefore more people to report it, and reporting is not discouraged by the fact that one is in the minority. All religions receive attacks, probability just makes it that the overwhelming amounts of people of Christian faiths receive them more often.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Let me make my position clear: I am not religious, (Atheist if you would like to put a word on it) nor have I ever been. I am not explicitly against religion, but I dislike its practice, but will not act to stop it unless it is obviously irresponsible, dangerous, or ludicrously untruthful. I highly dislike and will strike back at people who attempt to force religion on me or others. I acknowledge the support religion gives to those that are going through turbulent times in life, but cannot bring myself to believe. I am not here in this forum to troll. I am here to have some good arguments, since reasoned arguments are fun. I am also here to see the views of others, and perhaps try to convince them to become more open-minded.

Well, let me say upfront that its considered “bad form” to “hijack” somone elses OP and leech onto it. I’d recommend that you start a new thread that you start with a specific question. But that said, please be advised that everyone here is a volunteer and is trying to donate their time to help others understand our faith or to answer questions. We are not here for “entertainment” as you seem to be. We see eternal consequences for our lives and so we take our faith very seriously and we want others to have a chance to have what we believe is true and good in the after-life. So it is important to at least project the appearances of “sincerity” when asking questions (even if you are really here for entertainment) otherwise people will not want to waste time on you since an entertainment motive is a waste of time for most of us who want to help others and that distracts time from other people who are here for more altruistic reasons.

That said, we all can learn from each other’s points of views and become more logical and crisp in our outlooks and improve our cognitive abilities. But in general no one wants to be “used” insincerely as a means to learn a foreign language (reading and writing English) or to just teach debating skills. Your coming across with a “foreign” sort of social mindset that appears Asian to me. Can you at least give us some insight about where you come from so we can understand your social influences and forms of thinking. It helps in the communication of ideas to know the value system and culture of the other.

James

 

[Soutane]

Let me make my position clear: I am not religious, (Atheist if you would like to put a word on it) nor have I ever been. I am not explicitly against religion, but I dislike its practice, but will not act to stop it unless it is obviously irresponsible, dangerous, or ludicrously untruthful. I highly dislike and will strike back at people who attempt to force religion on me or others. I acknowledge the support religion gives to those that are going through turbulent times in life, but cannot bring myself to believe. I am not here in this forum to troll. I am here to have some good arguments, since reasoned arguments are fun. I am also here to see the views of others, and perhaps try to convince them to become more open-minded.

BlestOne, it’s my fault on not being clear, I was hurrying a bit. In the modern age, I’m not sure if the practices are still held. But Indulgences, remission for sins, were often sold, not given. By divorce, I meant remarriage, and should have stated so. Annulments require payments, and this particular one is still in practice. Sorry for not being clear, again.

YOU are showing extreme ignorance by just making accusations, generalizations, and stereotypes.

CentralFLJames, I don’t mean the fact that people don’t post, I mean the fact that people do post then ignore every post below the OP’s post. But I’m probably wrong here, so disregard that.

EDIT: Teflon, I use that location message in several forums, not just this one. It’s a joke. Have some lulz in your life. I’ve been hunted by dox gatherers. It’s not a fun experience. I’m making logical arguments, and try to avoid disrespect and personal attacks when needed.

Is this a new record for a banning?Too bad as he seems to be desperately in need of a spiritual education.I love it when athiests say they have no religion-of course they do-ABG.Anything but God.And why do so many athiests seem to be so angry?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Is this a new record for a banning?

I think I’ve seen quicker.
What amazing irony this thread turned into…

Getting back to the OP. Another thing I would add is to learn to be able to not get the last word in a conversation. You’ll probably find you have to do that when you refute someone’s point and they keep bringing up new diversions as you refute their errors one-by-one. Sometimes you have to go the way of St. Ambrose.

Don’t feel like you are crazy when you are confronted with these things. Often when you reply with reason and logic and charity, they will still not concede, and it can feel like you are not saying it “the right way” or something. Don’t worry, some people are attention-starved and have no intention of conceding, and others just enjoy the thrill of the debate.

 

[MDK]

I firmly believe that Ant-Catholicism is the new prejudice.

Please read this (written by A CHRISTIAN!) and tell me if these words are at all Christ-like:
"You need to learn more about the heresies of Roman Catholicism, well at least learn SOMETHING about Roman Catholicism before you shoot of your mouth about it! To say that some of the major doctrines of Roman Catholicism are off, shows that you have hardly (if any) knowledge of Roman Catholicism! Roman Catholicism is complete HERESY and GARBAGE!

I was born and raised in an area that was and is 85% Roman Catholic! The Roman Catholic Church Rectory where the Priests lived was 8 houses away from my parents house! My wife was raised in Roman Catholicism. You have NO IDEA whatsoever how evil and deadly Roman Catholicism is!! Tolerate it if you wish, that is your choice! NOT a wise one by any stretch of the imagination, but YOUR choice just the same! But DON’T make foolish statements about something that you have absolutely NO IDEA about!!

Saying that Catholicism is not evil is ridiculous! The garbage of Roman Catholicism is straight from the PITS OF HELL !!! You have NO IDEA whatsoever what you are talking about!"

• I choose not to name the offender at this point.

I am not trying to start anything I just need some instruction on what to do in the face of such hate. I wish we could band together, make our voices hear and be seen as people who love Christ…and are deserving of His love.
Thank you and pax vobiscum, peace be with you all.

Well, since Christ is the Truth, and this person’s diatribe has no truth in it, then the words are not Christ-like.

 

[SteveGC]

Let me make my position clear: I am not religious

How would you define “religious” and/or “religion”?

a) belief in God, or some other ultimate Creator(s)
b) organizational assemblies of like-minded people of a faith
c) both a) and b)
d) neither
I ask because one’s definition of those terms is often revealing.

I will not act to stop it [a religious practice] unless it is obviously irresponsible, dangerous, or ludicrously untruthful

• Irresponsible in what way?
• By dangerous, I assume you mean physically life-threatening
• What is “truth” to you? Meaning, how do you determine truth, such that you can determine what is "ludicrously untruthful? Is truth merely what you think is real? Meaning, would there be a Truth out there about life, if no one thought it was real?

-and a follow-up. If you would act to stop an “irresponsible” or "ludicrously untruthful’ religion…why would you? I mean, if you have no feelings about the after-life (in terms of consequences for our earthly living), why do you care about the existence or absence of any religion?

but cannot bring myself to believe…

This suggests you have genuinely made attempts at belief (faith). Could you share them briefly? Did it involve an association with some religion?

try to convince them to become more open-minded…

Would you consider yourself open-minded? Before you say ‘yes’, understand that my definition of “open-minded” is: to look upon something without reservation, without bias or preconceived notions…to look at something as fully and deeply as possible to get all of the facts.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to answer these.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Caution guys. I have seen a lot of anti-Catholic links being published here. This is against the rules. First of all we don’t want to advertise for them and link them into this site’s google references (automatic when referencing other sites) nor do we want to give them traffic from this forum and redirect people there since it just improves their search rankings and lets more miscreants find them more easily.

James

I understand your concern. The post I have above yours does link to an anti Catholic and in my opinion anti Christian. I do think the members of this site do deserve to know who attacks us. I do have one question is there a way I can type the url and remove its hyperlink??? That would be gratefully helpful

 

[Catholic_JIMMY]

I firmly believe that Ant-Catholicism is the new prejudice.

Please read this (written by A CHRISTIAN!) and tell me if these words are at all Christ-like:
"You need to learn more about the heresies of Roman Catholicism, well at least learn SOMETHING about Roman Catholicism before you shoot of your mouth about it! To say that some of the major doctrines of Roman Catholicism are off, shows that you have hardly (if any) knowledge of Roman Catholicism! Roman Catholicism is complete HERESY and GARBAGE!

I was born and raised in an area that was and is 85% Roman Catholic! The Roman Catholic Church Rectory where the Priests lived was 8 houses away from my parents house! My wife was raised in Roman Catholicism. You have NO IDEA whatsoever how evil and deadly Roman Catholicism is!! Tolerate it if you wish, that is your choice! NOT a wise one by any stretch of the imagination, but YOUR choice just the same! But DON’T make foolish statements about something that you have absolutely NO IDEA about!!

Saying that Catholicism is not evil is ridiculous! The garbage of Roman Catholicism is straight from the PITS OF HELL !!! You have NO IDEA whatsoever what you are talking about!"

• I choose not to name the offender at this point.

I am not trying to start anything I just need some instruction on what to do in the face of such hate. I wish we could band together, make our voices hear and be seen as people who love Christ…and are deserving of His love.
Thank you and pax vobiscum, peace be with you all.

Has that guy been taking lots of drugs or something. I think Protestants are just jealous; they would be nothing without us. I feel bad for that guy’s wife.