Hating Sexuality

[christofirst]

You might as well say you hate your arm or your brain, because sexuality is part of who we are. We have to learn to accept it and deal with it, whether we’re married or single. Before the OP asks me how to do this (the million dollar question for many of us), all I can say is, I’m in the same boat as you are, and the rough seas of our culture do not make staying afloat any easier. Hating sexuality, while an understandable thought, is not the answer - I think you already know this. How to accept it and integrate it as a whole person - no matter what our state in life may be - is the challenge. So, no real answers from me - sorry - but please know that you’re not alone in this struggle, and kindly pray for me, as I do for you.

 

[Mark86]

Sometimes I feel like I’d rather be crucified.

Think about it. A few hours of pain and then it’s all over vs. a lifetime of … this.

I’d much rather be put to death than be forced to live in torture.

 

[Bill_Martin]

When we sin, Satan briefly wins a minor skirmish.

When we focus so heavily on that one sin that we ignore other more dangerous sins, he wins a medium sized battle.

When in our focus on that sin we allow our (righteous) hatred of that sin to turn into such shame that we reject God’s mercy, he takes a decisive hilltop.

But when our shame for that sin not only rejects God’s mercy, but rejects and loathes the gifts God gave us or even in some cases the very existence God gave us, we fall into despair and Satan wins the war.

God doesn’t make bad things. If He didn’t want us to have physical bodies, we would be pure spirits, but we’re not. Don’t let your hatred of sexual sin morph into a hatred of God’s creation, because that is hatred of His plan. We are called to keep our bodies in their proper place, not despise them and want to throw them away.

 

[christofirst]

Sometimes I feel like I’d rather be crucified.

Think about it. A few hours of pain and then it’s all over vs. a lifetime of … this.

I’d much rather be put to death than be forced to live in torture.

Maybe check out this website:

lifemeaning.com/

I have just started looking it over, and so far, what I’ve seen seems to be in line with our Faith, and puts the whole notion of sexuality in a better perspective. It shows the change in thinking that many of us (myself included) need to help accept and properly deal with our sexuality, and maybe it can help you through this. If you actually read all of the articles, I can almost guarantee that sex will no longer be foremost on your mind, so that is a good thing! (small battles win the war)

 

[Techno2000]

Sometimes I feel like I’d rather be crucified.

Think about it. A few hours of pain and then it’s all over vs. a lifetime of … this.

I’d much rather be put to death than be forced to live in torture.

Ever think Jesus allows people stay in this state because it spurs us on to pray more when we otherwise wouldn’t ?

 

[anonymous_in_fl]

To the OP: Wow, I feel your pain.

Been there; done that!

But even if you were married there would be times when having sex with your spouse might not be possible due to a variety of reasons - - - - maybe one of you is away on a business trip or one of you is ill for a very long period of time. You would still have to deal with remaining chaste within the context of being married.

I have no answers for you, unfortunately. Just know you are not alone and getting married does not necessarily “fix” the issue.

We are all just trying to do the best we can. :hug1:

 

[Mark86]

We are all just trying to do the best we can. :hug1:

The best I can isn’t good enough.

 

[GEddie]

You might as well say you hate your arm or your brain, because sexuality is part of who we are. We have to learn to accept it and deal with it, whether we’re married or single. Before the OP asks me how to do this (the million dollar question for many of us), all I can say is, I’m in the same boat as you are, and the rough seas of our culture do not make staying afloat any easier. Hating sexuality, while an understandable thought, is not the answer - I think you already know this. How to accept it and integrate it as a whole person - no matter what our state in life may be - is the challenge. So, no real answers from me - sorry - but please know that you’re not alone in this struggle, and kindly pray for me, as I do for you.

• 1. Sexuality is a function of our bodies, like breathing or the sleep cycle. We cannot wish it away; we should learn to use it to be fully human beings.

ICXC NIKA

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

I agree with you. In fact I spent all day yesterday thinking about this. The problem is that God’s will doesn’t make any sense to me at this point in my life. It’s like a father deciding the dangle a toy over a small child, refusing to give it them but forcing them to want it. God is saying “you can’t ignore your sexuality” but then turning around and saying “you can’t use your sexuality.” It’s a hopeless situation for me. That’s essentially what it all boils down to. God is MAKING me “yearn” for something that He then says I can’t have. Why? I don’t know. I don’t know why any father would put a desire in their child for something on a routine basis and then tell them they can’t have it. What point is there in causing a creature to sit and have unfulfilled desires? I don’t get it.

The reason I hate it is because it does nothing for me but tempt me to sin. That’s all it does. It doesn’t do anything good for me. It doesn’t put good thoughts in my head. It doesn’t give me the ambition or motivation to make strides in life. It doesn’t even get me to seek out others. Instead, it’s like a cancer for the soul. Why should I “accept” that I have this “lump” in my body who’s very presence is trying to kill me every second of every day? All it does for me is try to kill me spiritually. It doesn’t help me. Can you give me one example of how sexuality helps me? Can you give me one example of how this burning desire helps me? If you can’t, and all you can do is attribute it to original sin, then human sexuality is indeed NOT “good.”

Keep in mind, it isn’t that sexuality is due to Original Sin, but rather it acts in a disordered fashion contrary to reason because of Original Sin. The same reason that our anger and our other urges and motivations tend to be disordered; because we inherit Original Sin - the wounding of our nature because of Adam’s rebellion. Further, our own actual sins only serve to deepen the damage to our nature; if we have long indulged in various vices, we will have a harder time with the temptations. So, the desire is right and just and good, of itself, but when it acts contrary to right reason and God’s law then it is wrong. The sexual desire is from God, since it is part of our nature, it being disordered, that is from us.

As far as the sexual urges ‘helping you’ I can give you one reason. It is an opportunity to merit and grow in virtue by overcoming the disordered desire and not sinning. This, we presume is why concupiscence was allowed to remain in us anyway. It is an arena that we deal with, overcome and are tested by various temptations, weaknesses etc. If we overcome, we shall have great reward! Also, remember what St. Paul says, in his second letter to the Corinthians: “And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities; for when I am weak, then I am strong.”

We don’t really know exactly what this ‘thorn in the flesh’ was, but it doesn’t matter. “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness” that is what we should keep in mind when we feel weak and beset by various temptations.

May God preserve and guide you!

 

[Bataar]

• 1. Sexuality is a function of our bodies, like breathing or the sleep cycle. We cannot wish it away; we should learn to use it to be fully human beings.

ICXC NIKA

The difference is that it’s not a mortal sin to breathe or sleep unless conditions beyond our control are present.

 

[Mark86]

Keep in mind, it isn’t that sexuality is due to Original Sin, but rather it acts in a disordered fashion contrary to reason because of Original Sin.

I kind of disagree. I am increasingly lead to believe in all of this that our sexual nature is meant to be directed toward God and not toward other human beings. Being attracted to other human beings is adultery with God who alone we should be attracted to. The fact that anyone find themselves sexually attracted to other human beings, in my opinion, is the result of the fallen world and therefore a cause for sin or “adultery” away from where our desire ought to be (on God alone). The marriage sacrament is procreative and unitive, and since both of these can be physically achieved without the need that the couple be sexually attracted to one another, their attraction ought to be with God alone and NOT with each other.

If I’m wrong, show me where it says sexual attraction is an important factor in human relationships. If you can’t, then obviously it’s not. It’s sinful.

Further, our own actual sins only serve to deepen the damage to our nature; if we have long indulged in various vices, we will have a harder time with the temptations. So, the desire is right and just and good, of itself, but when it acts contrary to right reason and God’s law then it is wrong.

The desire is not right and just and good, no matter how many times you can simply “state” that it is. Reason about it a little more. It really makes no difference how difficult the struggle with temptations are because all sexual desire is nothing but temptation compelling us toward things that are sinful acts. Sexual desire is temptation to perform sinful acts. It’s a catalyst for sinning. If there was an outlet for the desire that wasn’t sinful… if there was a way to use the desire in a way that wasn’t sinful… then you’d maybe have a point, but as it stands, there isn’t any. All that happens is you feel sexually “turned on” and there’s only one direction following that path can lead and it’s to hell. Things that exist simply to put people in hell can not be “good” things, otherwise Satan would be a saint. Furthermore, God told us to be fruitful and multiply, yes. God never instructed us to be sexually attracted to each other. That is against God’s law actually. Commandment 6, attraction to human beings is adultery with God.

So, the desire is right and just and good, of itself, but when it acts contrary to right reason and God’s law then it is wrong. The sexual desire is from God, since it is part of our nature, it being disordered, that is from us.

I think the very presence of sexual desire in our nature is the inherited disorder. If we were free from original sin, we would not be attracted to other human beings. We’d be attracted to God alone.

If we overcome, we shall have great reward!

So I’m to struggle with crippling loneliness then.

 

[Windmill]

If you don’t mind me asking, how did you make it to the other side?

Frequent confession, the Rosary, I read that book I linked you to in my last post, and I realized that I had a lot of bad habits that had been established by years of neglecting my spiritual life. These habits wouldn’t be fixed overnight.

Read the book. It helps give you a positive attitude and real strategies. Beyond that, it lets you know that there are many Christian men who are fighting this same fight: the Will against the Passions. God does not want you to despise the way you were created, but he does want you to master it. It takes time, though.

As far as the attraction to other people being a distraction from God, I’d ask you to table that idea for now. It will not be helpful. We could argue and argue, but in the meantime you will still have your major concern: starting on the path to recovery.

If you are wanting a book written by a Catholic, I can also vouch for this author and his works:

Set Free to Love

 

[Mark86]

Frequent confession, the Rosary, I read that book I linked you to in my last post, and I realized that I had a lot of bad habits that had been established by years of neglecting my spiritual life. These habits wouldn’t be fixed overnight.

It looks like a good book, but I’m not sure how to “order” it. I’m leery about just sending a check in the mail to some address in Minnesota.

As far as the attraction to other people being a distraction from God, I’d ask you to table that idea for now. It will not be helpful. We could argue and argue, but in the meantime you will still have your major concern: starting on the path to recovery.

No that’s the reason I made this thread. I want to know how on earth anyone can “reason” that sexual attraction is anything but a cause for sin when there are literally no non-sinful outlets for it. Don’t say “marriage” is the outlet for sexual desire, because getting married due to sexual desire or to deal with sexual desire is not healthy. Furthermore, God never specified that sexual attraction between spouses was required for procreation and the unity of the spouses. He never said “be fruitful and multiply only with those you’re sexually attracted to.” In the meantime, sexual attraction (if pursued in ANY way) WILL lead a person into sinful acts and/or spiritual “adultery” with God. Therefore, I’m forced to conclude that sexuality is itself part of our fallen nature and not “how we are made.” Hating it therefore would not be about “despising how God has made me” but despising a biological cause of sin left over as an effect of the fall from grace. It would in that case be prudent to despise it.

 

[Robert_Sock]

It looks like a good book, but I’m not sure how to “order” it. I’m leery about just sending a check in the mail to some address in Minnesota.

No that’s the reason I made this thread. I want to know how on earth anyone can “reason” that sexual attraction is anything but a cause for sin when there are literally no non-sinful outlets for it. Don’t say “marriage” is the outlet for sexual desire, because getting married due to sexual desire or to deal with sexual desire is not healthy. Furthermore, God never specified that sexual attraction between spouses was required for procreation and the unity of the spouses. He never said “be fruitful and multiply only with those you’re sexually attracted to.” In the meantime, sexual attraction (if pursued in ANY way) WILL lead a person into sinful acts and/or spiritual “adultery” with God. Therefore, I’m forced to conclude that sexuality is itself part of our fallen nature and not “how we are made.” Hating it therefore would not be about “despising how God has made me” but despising a biological cause of sin left over as an effect of the fall from grace. It would in that case be prudent to despise it.

 

[Sarcelle]

Sexuality is a gift for the married people since they can use it in its proper context. For singles, it’s nothing but a cross.

While most people eventually do marry, there are some that remain single for the rest of their lives. I do not include religious who voluntarily do not marry but those who do want to get married but cannot.

 

[Sarcelle]

I still don’t understand what use sexuality has outside the bounds of marriage. Since I am not married, I have no use for it at all.

 

[Mark86]

You don’t think I’ve read this a thousand times? I agree with it. I’ve memorized it. The difficulty is in understanding it, not just reading it.

Find me where it says that sexual “attraction” is necessary in the spousal relationship, or ANY human relationship for that matter. Sure, the gift of being able to procreate and unite in matrimony is a gift from God. That is one thing, but that has nothing to do with “sexual attraction” or “sexuality.” Marriage is not the “remedy” for the disorder of finding other human being sexually attractive. Being attracted to another human being is nothing but lust, whether married or not. Physical attraction to other human beings leads to nothing but lust. Christ said so. God would not give us a desire that only leads a soul to hell. Therefore, I’m forced to accept that sexual attraction in ALL of its forms is the result of original sin and therefore should be despised.

Since sexuality is not required in a marital relationship, nor does it lead a person into one, and since all outlets for it are sinful otherwise, I’m kind of forced to think that sexual attraction to others is nothing but a disorder left over from the fall.

If I’m wrong, show me.

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

I kind of disagree. I am increasingly lead to believe in all of this that our sexual nature is meant to be directed toward God and not toward other human beings. Being attracted to other human beings is adultery with God who alone we should be attracted to. The fact that anyone find themselves sexually attracted to other human beings, in my opinion, is the result of the fallen world and therefore a cause for sin or “adultery” away from where our desire ought to be (on God alone). The marriage sacrament is procreative and unitive, and since both of these can be physically achieved without the need that the couple be sexually attracted to one another, their attraction ought to be with God alone and NOT with each other.

Sir, our whole being is to be directed to God as our last end, but this simply means that everything we do should be ordered to God and be in accord with Divine Law. To utilize natural things in relation to their appropriate end is not a sin; to desire to utilize them for their rightful purposes or to enjoy utilizing those things is, again, not a sin in any way. It becomes a sin when things are sought for the pleasure alone, disregarding the end for which they were designed and or disregarding our final end, which is God. Such acts are perverted because they are disordered.

Sexual desire is directed to other human beings because we procreate with other human beings. It is in accordance with human nature, which God created; we are supposed to be attracted to members of the opposite sex. The problem isn’t with the fact that we experience desire or attraction; the problem is with the fact that it is disordered and contrary to reason. In the garden, Adam and Eve didn’t experience concupiscence, because their appetites were in accord with their reason, because they had original justice; they would not have experienced that all consuming insane fire we call ‘lust,’ but it doesn’t follow that there would not have been some form of desire, attraction or pleasure; it just would have been in complete subjection to right reason; there would have been no war between the flesh and their own minds like what we experience daily.

The Catholic Encyclopedia defines Lust in this manner:

“The inordinate craving for, or indulgence of, the carnal pleasure which is experienced in the human organs of generation.
The wrongfulness of lust is reducible to this: that venereal satisfaction is sought for either outside wedlock or, at any rate, in a manner which is contrary to the laws that govern marital intercourse. Every such criminal indulgence is a mortal sin, provided of course, it be voluntary in itself and fully deliberate.”

Lust is the inordinate craving for sexual satisfaction. Emphasis on inordinate; it is wrong because it is disordered, not because it is pleasurable. Sexual desire is not, strictly speaking, ‘lust’ it only is if it is disordered and not in accord with right reason. I.E. if you have a craving to just have sex with any person you encounter, or if you wish to have sex outside of the marriage bond, or within the marriage bond in a fashion that is unlawful – not keeping with the end of procreation. But, simply being attracted to another human being is not in any way sinful or disordered until it goes beyond the order of reason. How on earth do you expect to find a spouse without being attracted to them?

I mean, don’t listen to me, how about St. Thomas Aquinas on Lust:

“A sin, in human acts, is that which is against the order of reason. Now the order of reason consists in its ordering everything to its end in a fitting manner. Wherefore it is no sin if one, by the dictate of reason, makes use of certain things in a fitting manner and order for the end to which they are adapted, provided this end be something truly good. Now just as the preservation of the bodily nature of one individual is a true good, so, too, is the preservation of the nature of the human species a very great good. And just as the use of food is directed to the preservation of life in the individual, so is the use of venereal acts directed to the preservation of the whole human race. Hence Augustine says (De Bono Conjug. xvi): “What food is to a man’s well being, such is sexual intercourse to the welfare of the whole human race.” Wherefore just as the use of food can be without sin, if it be taken in due manner and order, as required for the welfare of the body, so also the use of venereal acts can be without sin, provided they be performed in due manner and order, in keeping with the end of human procreation.”

And he sums it up in this manner:

*“Now lust consists essentially in exceeding the order and mode of reason in the matter of venereal acts.” *

Read more here, and here.

So, the sin of Lust is not that it is a sexual act, or that it is pleasurable, but that it is done or desired in a fashion that is contrary to reason.

In the same fashion desiring food to satisfy your bodily needs is no sin whatever as long as it sought in accord with right reason. Now, we would stray into Gluttony if we were to eat simply for the desire for food, or be so picky about our food that it must be a certain way, or if we eat to excessive levels contrary to reason.

Now, someone could make the argument that we should avoid all such worldly pleasures because they are transient and passing away, so, to avoid the temptation to become attached to them we should simply avoid them entirely. This isn’t bad advice, and many of the great saints throughout history have done this very thing; but again, it doesn’t mean that experiencing pleasure is wrong of itself.

Continued…

 

[PulvisEtCinis]

If I’m wrong, show me where it says sexual attraction is an important factor in human relationships. If you can’t, then obviously it’s not. It’s sinful.

What is this ‘it’ that I have to show you where ‘it’ says?

The desire is not right and just and good, no matter how many times you can simply “state” that it is.

Likewise, simply saying that it is evil does not make it so.

Again, I do not mean that the disordered desire is good (the desire for unlawful sexual satisfaction), but that the desire itself if it be in accord with reason is not sinful, in-fact it is good (in so far as it is in accord with God’s design).

Reason about it a little more.

I assure you, I have reasoned about it a lot. I have had my own struggles with Lust and concupiscence – who living in this body of death hasn’t?

It really makes no difference how difficult the struggle with temptations are because all sexual desire is nothing but temptation compelling us toward things that are sinful acts. Sexual desire is temptation to perform sinful acts. It’s a catalyst for sinning. If there was an outlet for the desire that wasn’t sinful… if there was a way to use the desire in a way that wasn’t sinful… then you’d maybe have a point, but as it stands, there isn’t any. All that happens is you feel sexually “turned on” and there’s only one direction following that path can lead and it’s to hell. Things that exist simply to put people in hell can not be “good” things, otherwise Satan would be a saint. Furthermore, God told us to be fruitful and multiply, yes. God never instructed us to be sexually attracted to each other.

Again, I believe you are talking about ‘concupiscence’ here – the disordered desire for unlawful sexual gratification. And, yes, this is evil (and a sin if indulged in), but it should not be mistaken for lawful sexual or physical attraction. Not all sex is wrong, not all attraction or desire is wrong.

It is a catalyst for sinning, but so are so many other disordered things about our condition. I could say the same thing about anger for example; how many sins are produced from a tempestuous temper and inclination to anger? Yet, even anger is not always sinful; it is an aspect of our irascible appetite that motivates us and it isn’t unlawful if it is in accord with right reason. I mean, Jesus was angry at the Pharisees for example, and Jesus was without sin.

You say: “God never instructed us to be sexually attracted to each other.” Which, I would say is true; at least it isn’t in our records. However, I would say that He doesn’t have to, anymore than he has to say ‘you must keep breathing to survive’ – it is part of the nature he created us with. He did say “Be fruitful and multiply” because that was one of the positive commands to our first parents. In addition to this, I would note that he did not say ‘do not be sexually attracted to each other’ either. So, your conclusion does not follow.

That is against God’s law actually. Commandment 6, attraction to human beings is adultery with God.

Nonsense. Where are you getting these ideas? Such would only be ‘adultery with God’ if it diverts you from your final end (which is God) to that of a creature or created goods. This would be what is called a Mortal Sin. Now, this is why Lust is universally a Mortal sin if it is done with consent of the will and knowledge. However, as I said above, not all attraction or sexual desire is Lust, only that which is unlawful and contrary to reason. So, it does not follow that ‘attraction to human beings is adultery with God’ because not all attraction is Lust.

I think the very presence of sexual desire in our nature is the inherited disorder. If we were free from original sin, we would not be attracted to other human beings. We’d be attracted to God alone.

No, again, the presence of a disordered, inordinate, ‘all consuming’ sexual desire is what stems from Original Sin, not the desire itself. In the same way that desire for food is not evil unless it be contrary to the Divine law. The sexual desire, in accord with reason, is ordered to a particular end (procreation and unification of spouses) in the same way that experiencing pleasure in eating food is no sin, because it is experienced and desired in a rightly ordered relationship (for the fulfillment of the bodily needs). Pleasure is not sin, the love of pleasure which displaces God, or God’s Law, that is sin.

So I’m to struggle with crippling loneliness then.

No, you are to conquer your ‘crippling loneliness,’ if that means some struggle to achieve that then so be it; there is merit in the struggle and the conquering as long as you do not sin. You wanted someone to give you a reason why concupiscence is left to exist in you, that is why; it is the arena in which we are tested and forged by grace.

 

[Mark86]

Pulvisetcinis, first of all thank you for the time you’ve put into trying to cure my ignorance by your very thoughtful and well-reasoned posts. There are a few matters that I wish to clarify and few points of disagreement that I still, not so much on theological issues as on practical or pastoral ones. There’s much in your post that I agree with, but I suppose there’s a difference of opinion here on a few very crucial points and I wonder which actually makes the most practical sense.

To utilize natural things in relation to their appropriate end is not a sin; to desire to utilize them for their rightful purposes or to enjoy utilizing those things is, again, not a sin in any way. It becomes a sin when things are sought for the pleasure alone, disregarding the end for which they were designed and or disregarding our final end, which is God. Such acts are perverted because they are disordered.

Let me ask then a practical question… If I see someone my senses are sexually attracted to, have I committed lust, have I “sought the pleasure alone, disregarding the end for which [my desire] was designed for?” or have I “desired to utilize [my desire] for its rightful purpose?” Does this mean it’s not sinful for me to suggest that someone is attractive or to admit to myself that I find them attractive (even though I have no intention to run out and marry them)? Does God indeed permit us to respect the beauty in other human beings? If so, to me that sounds like he’d be permitting us to “seek the pleasure alone” by expressly disregarding the end for which [the desire] was designed. I say that because I’ve seen many attractive members of our species, and I’ve found them attractive, but I don’t desire sexual relations with them. Is that lust? By not desiring to have sex with the person I’m attracted to, have I “disregarded the end to which the desire was designed for”? Basically, if I haven’t desired to have sex with the person I find attractive, have I engaged in a disordered act (by your definition)?

they would not have experienced that all consuming insane fire we call ‘lust,’ but it doesn’t follow that there would not have been some form of desire, attraction or pleasure; it just would have been in complete subjection to right reason; there would have been no war between the flesh and their own minds like what we experience daily.

What form of desire then would they have experienced? What form of pleasure would they have experienced? Basically, I have trouble believing there is any pleasure or desire contained in the flesh apart from concupiscence. Outside of concupiscence is paradise found where no distinction can be made. In my mind, the kinds of experiences that Adam and Eve would’ve had would’ve been devoid of such fleshly accidents as “pleasure” and “pain.” What would they have “enjoyed” if they had no concept of suffering or duress? They could make no such distinction, and so they would’ve felt nothing but the perfectly ordered reason for their complimentarity. Their “feelings” on the matter would’ve been more like “this works” rather than “this is enjoyable.”

Lust is the inordinate craving for sexual satisfaction. Emphasis on inordinate; it is wrong because it is disordered, not because it is pleasurable. Sexual desire is not, strictly speaking, ‘lust’ it only is if it is disordered and not in accord with right reason. I.E. if you have a craving to just have sex with any person you encounter, or if you wish to have sex outside of the marriage bond, or within the marriage bond in a fashion that is unlawful – not keeping with the end of procreation. But, simply being attracted to another human being is not in any way sinful or disordered until it goes beyond the order of reason. How on earth do you expect to find a spouse without being attracted to them?

In Pope St. John Paul II’s “Theology of the Body” lectures he downplayed the significance of “physical attraction” in the discernment of marriage, and for very good reason, in my opinion. He emphasized instead the importance of interpersonal commitment over feelings of the flesh and how “eros” can only find its fullest expression in the context of “agape.” In this sense, it seems that agape trumps eros. Agape does not find itself fulfilled in eros. A relationship that seeks out eros only becomes actualized when agape takes it over, otherwise it crumbles. A relationship that seeks out pure agape in the beginning (with the absence of eros), will be actualized already. Lacking eros will not cause it to crumble. This makes eros unnecessary at every stage of a marital relationship. So how on earth do I expect to find a spouse without being physically attracted to them? By not committing lust and by loving them on the deepest agape level FIRST, and skipping over “eros” completely. I will be attracted to their soul, their personality, the stamp of the creator in them, and NOT to their body.

Cont.