Hating your children for Jesus?

[Zatzat]

Luke 14;26

If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

I’m knowledgeable enough to know that I’ll get lots of opinions that ’ hate ’ isn’t being used in it’s regular context when Jesus is speaking. However, there’s no dispute that Jesus is clearly telling his disciples that everyone, including their children, must come after God.

A question to Catholics or Protestants who may browse this thread. How do you reconcile that you must place all your loved ones, even your children second behind an invisible supernatural God?

If your child were to ask you, would you really tell your child that if faced with a choice, that you’d abandon them in a heartbeat in favour of God?

I ask, because this bit of scripture is quite puzzling, in that I would willingly spend eternity in hell in order to put my kids first. If I were faced with a choice, I’d abandon God in a heartbeat in favour of my children.

If I’d been Isaac, I’d have stood up to God and told him no.

 

[momor]

Luke 14;26

I’m knowledgeable enough to know that I’ll get lots of opinions that ’ hate ’ isn’t being used in it’s regular context when Jesus is speaking. However, there’s no dispute that Jesus is clearly telling his disciples that everyone, including their children, must come after God.

A question to Catholics or Protestants who may browse this thread. How do you reconcile that you must place all your loved ones, even your children second behind an invisible supernatural God?

If your child were to ask you, would you really tell your child that if faced with a choice, that you’d abandon them in a heartbeat in favour of God?

I ask, because this bit of scripture is quite puzzling, in that I would willingly spend eternity in hell in order to put my kids first. If I were faced with a choice, I’d abandon God in a heartbeat in favour of my children.

If I’d been Isaac, I’d have stood up to God and told him no.

Perhaps you feel this way because you do not understand the nature of God. It sounds like God to you is just like another human.

 

[Zatzat]

Perhaps you feel this way because you do not understand the nature of God. It sounds like God to you is just like another human.

I know humans and human relationships are real and are worth nurturing.

God, not so much.

 

[NHInsider]

It is a difficult teaching (I remember being reduced to tears when reading about St. Perpetua at a time when I still had babies at home), and of course you are correct that Jesus is using hyperbole - it’s not that He wants us to hate anyone, but to love God more than anyone.

I try to remember that God loves my children more than I ever could, and so while it might seem to me superficially that I would be choosing my children over God, I would potentially be losing both, where as to put God first and trust Him with my children, would be to save both.

 

[Zatzat]

I try to remember that God loves my children more than I ever could

I find that hard to believe.

 

[davidv]

I find that hard to believe.

Why?

 

[Bishop93]

I find that hard to believe.

I understand completely what you’re saying.

My grand-mother told me once that she loves God more than her children and me…I was heart-broken.

It’s hard to understand but I think what’s important to have faith in is that God will take care of your children regardless:thumbsup:

You don’t have to literally “hate” your family though

 

[davidv]

I understand completely what you’re saying.

My grand-mother told me once that she loves God more than her children and me…I was heart-broken.

It’s hard to understand but I think what’s important to have faith in is that God will take care of your children regardless:thumbsup:

You don’t have to literally “hate” your family though

Do you know why your grand-mother said that?

I believe that this one meaning of this passage is that if you don’t love God, you won’t love you family very well.

 

[Bishop93]

Do you know why your grand-mother said that?

I believe that this one meaning of this passage is that if you don’t love God, you won’t love you family very well.

Makes sense:thumbsup:

 

[USMCatholic]

Unfortunately, Zatzat, so long as your mind and conception of God remain where they are now, any answers you get on this subject had may as well be in a foreign tongue. You view human relationships as well, but don’t think that the same can necessarily be said of God. Starting from that standpoint, how could you possibly appreciate any answer that we might give you? Choosing God over all else, even family, only makes sense if He is real.
The point is, there is only one way for any of us to ever be truly, everlastingly happy, and that’s to be perfectly aligned with God’s will. And it’s not as if happiness is a reward for complying with God’s arbitrary will; on the contrary, what God wills for us is the only thing that has the ability to make us happy. All efforts to divorce our happiness from God’s will are ultimately fruitless. Drugs and wanton promiscuity are only some of the more apparent of failed attempts to find happiness outside of God’s will. The more we give to God, the more we will have; the more we attempt to keep, the less we will have. The kind of love you yearn for is inherently selfish; these are MY children, my love has an unbreakable claim on them, nothing can be more important. Unfortunately, this is fundamentally wrong, but you can’t appreciate that until you have a fuller understanding of the awesome nature and love of God. I would suggest that you try reading The Great Divorce by CS Lewis. There’s an account in it of a woman’s ‘love’ for her son that has damned her soul to hell. Indeed, her ‘love’ for him is so deep and profound that she insists that he join her in hell so that they may be together, rather than enjoy perpetual bliss in paradise.

 

[juliamajor]

In biblical terms “hate” does not mean to despise.It means to love less.Jacob loved rachel but hated leah does not mean he disliked her. It just means he loved Rachel MORE then Leah.
The same here with God.God is to be your ultimate “love”.So love of God comes first-because all good things can and do flow from that love.You will forgive more, have more compassion,deny yourself more, put others before yourself(including your children),love your neighbor, forego violence. The world is evidence that mouths may glorify God and declare their love for God but our hearts are far from that ideal love.

 

[Jermosh]

He is basically saying that He is not here for the ones who have a perfect life. I know myself that there are many aspects of my life that I hate, I dont think that I am uncommon.

 

[Zatzat]

I try to remember that God loves my children more than I ever could

I find that hard to believe.

Why?

Just as there’s no real evidence that God exists, there is also no evidence that this God loves your children more than you.

As an aside, if God did love these children more than the parents, I suspect that children wouldn’t be the victims of sexual abuse, nor victims of horrific accidents or terrible disease. Loving parents, if they had the power, would do anything for their children in keeping them from harm…God does no such thing, a passive observer if you will.

To me, it sounds like wishful thinking, a means to reconcile a very difficult belief within a faith system.

 

[Zatzat]

I believe that this one meaning of this passage is that if you don’t love God, you won’t love you family very well.

To me, it’s just another means of reconciling a difficult belief that is found within a faith system.

It’s a meaningless sound bite that prey’s upon the stereotypes of non-believers.

I assure you, non-believers are capable of and do adore and love their families. The difference being, a non believer puts their family first.

 

[juliamajor]

To me, it’s just another means of reconciling a difficult belief that is found within a faith system.

It’s a meaningless sound bite that prey’s upon the stereotypes of non-believers.(he was answering your question about a piece of scripture-how is that a sound bite?)
I assure you, non-believers are capable of and do adore and love their families. The difference being, a non believer puts their family first.

(so what do you think? that if the house is afire we take our bibles out first and leave the kiddies to fry?

So that’s your point? Atheists love their children more than believers?That your love is superior because you don’t share it with a deity?You really pulled us in hook, line and sinker.I thought there might be some intelligent enquiry going on here. But you just went for the old tired canard that atheists are superior and smarter then everybody else.At least be honest about your intentions. If you want to make a statement do it.Don’t troll around like you really want a discussion when you truly don’t

 

[markomalley]

Luke 14;26

I’m knowledgeable enough to know that I’ll get lots of opinions that ’ hate ’ isn’t being used in it’s regular context when Jesus is speaking. However, there’s no dispute that Jesus is clearly telling his disciples that everyone, including their children, must come after God.

A question to Catholics or Protestants who may browse this thread. How do you reconcile that you must place all your loved ones, even your children second behind an invisible supernatural God?

If your child were to ask you, would you really tell your child that if faced with a choice, that you’d abandon them in a heartbeat in favour of God?

I ask, because this bit of scripture is quite puzzling, in that I would willingly spend eternity in hell in order to put my kids first. If I were faced with a choice, I’d abandon God in a heartbeat in favour of my children.

I don’t see the controversy. Jesus is saying that God must have absolute primacy in your life…above EVERYTHING else.

If I’d been Isaac, I’d have stood up to God and told him no.

Of course you would.

 

[Bookcat]

Jesus also says if anyone comes to him without hating his father…wife…etc (see Luke 14:26) he can not be his disciple…

Jesus is not meaning we are to ‘hate’ in the literal sense…it is a semitic way of speaking…of saying one must love Jesus more…and if there comes a conflict…it is Jesus we follow etc not wife or father etc…

he also speaks of cutting off hands and plucking out ones eyes…if they lead to sin…this is not taken literally…it means to avoid the things that lead one into sin (in particular mortal sin)…

so when Jesus says one is to hate ones life…he is not meaning one is not to actually love the gift of life…but that Jesus and his kingdom etc come first! Even if we have to die as a martyr! That sort of thing…

they are semitic expressions…

 

[Bookcat]

Pope Benedict XVI:

“To hate” one’s life is a strong and paradoxical Semitic expression that clearly emphasizes the radical totality which must distinguish those who follow Christ and, out of love for him, put themselves at the service of their brethren. They lose their life and thus find it. There is no other way to experience the joy and the true fruitfulness of Love: the way of giving oneself, of self-giving, of losing oneself in order to find oneself.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090329_magliana_en.html

this is the same semitic expression used regarding ones father…mother …children…

it must be understood in this sense.

and knowing that Jesus’ command is to love one another…including Children …whom he singled out himself

 

[Zatzat]

(so what do you think? that if the house is afire we take our bibles out first and leave the kiddies to fry?

So that’s your point? Atheists love their children more than believers?That your love is superior because you don’t share it with a deity?You really pulled us in hook, line and sinker.I thought there might be some intelligent enquiry going on here. But you just went for the old tired canard that atheists are superior and smarter then everybody else.At least be honest about your intentions. If you want to make a statement do it.Don’t troll around like you really want a discussion when you truly don’t

You don’t like what I have to say as evidenced by your relatively hostile response.

Interesting that you’ve taken the time to condemn my posts, yet you haven’t even begun to take the time to express why you believe it is far better to love God more than your own children.

 

[Zatzat]

Jesus also says if anyone comes to him without hating his father…wife…etc (see Luke 14:26) he can not be his disciple…

Jesus is not meaning we are to ‘hate’ in the literal sense…it is a semitic way of speaking…of saying one must love Jesus more…and if there comes a conflict…it is Jesus we follow etc not wife or father etc…

he also speaks of cutting off hands and plucking out ones eyes…if they lead to sin…this is not taken literally…it means to avoid the things that lead one into sin (in particular mortal sin)…

so when Jesus says one is to hate ones life…he is not meaning one is not to actually love the gift of life…but that Jesus and his kingdom etc come first! Even if we have to die as a martyr! That sort of thing…

they are semitic expressions…

Although I’m not disputing the message or the interpretation of the message, I am curious to know why Jesus didn’t simply say ’ love God more …’