Have any Muslim clerics or entities condemned the killing of christians in Iraq?

[RosslynV]

That would be something positive if true.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

That would be something positive if true.

Yes, the important ones have as well, they also condemned the 9/11 terrorist attack immediately, but no one cared as that didn’t make for good television.

 

[agnes_therese]

Why not google it and see for yourself?

 

[Gliggle]

Most do! I am amazed this question needs to be asked. You need to get a different news provider.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

General Notice
Stay with NCR rules in regard to this topic.

 

[John_Lazarus]

In the past few days I’ve seen at least two. One was on American TV, commenting on homegrown radicalized youth over fighting for ISIS, and one was the head of the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, who is doing a 48-hour hunger strike.

 

[LtTony]

It’s been condemed by muslims. Moreover, I haven’t seen anything from muslims clerics supporting ISIA either, although I haven’t been looking for a thing. My guess is, that if they are out there, they are on the lunatic fringe.

 

[rossum]

Have any Muslim clerics or entities condemned the killing of christians in Iraq?

Yes. See Egypt’s top religious authority condemns ISIS:

Egypt’s top religious authority condemned the armed group Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) which has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria, describing it on Tuesday as a corrupt, extremist organisation that is damaging Islam.

“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.

The comments came as the Vatican called on Muslim religious leaders to take a “clear and courageous stance” and condemn “unspeakable criminal acts” by ISIS.

The grand mufti’s view represents the opinion of Al Azhar, one of the world’s oldest seats of Muslim learning, which influences the opinions of Muslims worldwide.

rossum

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Thanks for citing the various condemnations of ISIS by Muslims. I feel much better knowing that evil is identified for what it is!

 

[Pythons]

Yes. See Egypt’s top religious authority condemns ISIS:

Egypt’s top religious authority condemned the armed group Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) which has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria, describing it on Tuesday as a corrupt, extremist organisation that is damaging Islam.

“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.

The comments came as the Vatican called on Muslim religious leaders to take a “clear and courageous stance” and condemn “unspeakable criminal acts” by ISIS.

The grand mufti’s view represents the opinion of Al Azhar, one of the world’s oldest seats of Muslim learning, which influences the opinions of Muslims worldwide.

rossum

Has he issued a “Fatwah” against the ISIS interpretation of Sharia Law? I don’t believe he has…
…Which is why the article you quoted is written the way it was.
…Any Muslim leader worth his salt would issue a Fatwah against ISIS.

cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2014/08/06/idesk-iraq-christians-persecuted-mark-arabo-intv.cnn&hpt=ob_articlefooter&iref=obnetwork&video_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Ftraffic.outbrain.com%2Fnetwork%2Fredir%3Fkey%3D663bd15b5ae0680954901a3805d9c5d1%26rdid%3D761490422%26type%3DWMC_%2FNA_la%26in-site%3Dfalse%26idx%3D0%26req_id%3D61c4273b721e1929f1da0b04203dfb14%26agent%3Dblog_JS_rec%26recMode%3D7%26reqType%3D1%26wid%3D101%26imgType%3D0%26refPub%3D185%26scp%3Dfalse%26reqIdx%3D0%26origSrc%3D1053273%26did%3D818470892%26uuid%3D6f6ac637-f70b-4c4a-a526-c646f112e94c

 

[rafarose]

Yes. See Egypt’s top religious authority condemns ISIS:

Egypt’s top religious authority condemned the armed group Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) which has taken over parts of Iraq and Syria, describing it on Tuesday as a corrupt, extremist organisation that is damaging Islam.

“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.

The comments came as the Vatican called on Muslim religious leaders to take a “clear and courageous stance” and condemn “unspeakable criminal acts” by ISIS.

The grand mufti’s view represents the opinion of Al Azhar, one of the world’s oldest seats of Muslim learning, which influences the opinions of Muslims worldwide.

rossum

Uh, so saying that ISIS poses danger to ISLAM and MUSLIMS is speaking out against ISIS?? What about the religious minorities who are the only ones really suffering the most like the Christians and Yazidis?

I am sorry to break this to all of you, but the ratio of Muslim religious leaders who have condemned ISIS is very small. The only Muslim country who has officially condemned ISIS is Indonesia. Did you know that there are reports of muslim leaders supporting the actions of ISIS? Who and what is this invisible hand that seems to be ISIS’s backbone???!

I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but this is the reality.

 

[Pythons]

Uh, so saying that ISIS poses danger to ISLAM and MUSLIMS is speaking out against ISIS?? What about the religious minorities who are the only ones really suffering the most like the Christians and Yazidis?

I am sorry to break this to all of you, but the ratio of Muslim religious leaders who have condemned ISIS is very small. The only Muslim country who has officially condemned ISIS is Indonesia. Did you know that there are reports of muslim leaders supporting the actions of ISIS? Who and what is this invisible hand that seems to be ISIS’s backbone???!

I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but this is the reality.

What you say is accurate & the reason you don’t see mass condemnations of ISIS by Muslim leaders…
…Is because at the end of the day they are, after-all, practicing “by the book Islam”.
…One would not logically expect to see luke-warm Catholics rebuking “devout Catholics” for observance of Lent.

What people need to realize is that within ANY religion you are going to have about 25 or so % of the total membership being DEVOUT or strict. Apply this fact to Islam and folks can start to see the picture EASILY. There are simply no such thing as “Terrorists” in Islam - only devout and non-devout Muslims.

The problem is SIMPLE to define…
…The difficultly is how to solve it.

 

[rossum]

Has he issued a “Fatwah” against the ISIS interpretation of Sharia Law? I don’t believe he has…

It took me all of ten seconds to google “Fatwa against ISIS” to find this, Fatwa Against ISIS by the Syrian Islamic Council:

This organization (ISIS) has committed gross violations against the Sharia as well clear criminal actions which include the following:

1 – They infringed upon the Syrian people with their declaration of statehood without a respectable Sharia process, a clear vision, nor meaningful consultation be it in accordance with the Sharia or otherwise.

2 – They claim to be on the path of truth, and that those beside them are either disbelievers or misguided innovators. Consequently, based on these assumptions, they issued dangerous rulings.

3 – Extremism in issuing takfir, and subjecting the people to tribulations with regard to this. This has come to the point that accusations of takfir and treachery alongside death threats have no doubt become commonplace among the ranks of ISIS. Furthermore, some members of ISIS have even gone so far as to deem the general condition of Muslims in Syria as either that of disbelief or apostasy. There are even those amongst the organization who have deemed the regime [of al-Assad] and its followers more honourable than the freedom fighters and revolutionaries of Syria.

4 – They slander anyone who opposes them as either being a secret agent, or traitor, or as being a member of the [Anbar] Awakening movement [in Iraq], even if the individual was known to be honest and upright or among those who waged jihad against the Assad regime and its allies.

5 – Their insistence on referring matters of conflict and dispute to those who are subservient to ISIS and conform to its rule and their refusal to refer these matters to competent (and impartial) authorities of the Sharia.

6 – They engaged those mujahid battalions fighting against the tyrannical Assad regime with low-intensity conflicts in order to expand the sphere of their state and secure allegiance to it, while at the same time distracting from the fight against the common enemy. They further strove to obtain control over the joint economic and military gains obtained in the liberated territories after having stolen those assets from the mujahidin.

7 – They have deliberately attempted to confront and clash with various groups of mujahidin in Syria, and have involved themselves in the shedding of innocent blood, and have made light of this very grave matter.

8 – They have arrested mujahidin, and activists, journalists, and advocates [of the Syrian people’s cause], and have impeded relief efforts on the pretext of suspicious manners of acting or charges of betrayal and treason.

9 – They have committed treachery after having first offered security to the mujahidin and battlefield messengers and subsequently betraying many of them through arrests, torture, and killing. The news of the casualties of their treachery has circulated so rapidly that Syrians and non-Syrian both near and far from the conflict have become aware of it.

I suggest in future that you spend ten seconds searching first, before asking your question.

rossum

 

[rossum]

Uh, so saying that ISIS poses danger to ISLAM and MUSLIMS is speaking out against ISIS?

Yes. Does the Pope not think that ISIS is dangerous because he failed to condemn that danger that ISIS poses to atheists? Does every condemnation of ISIS have to include every other religious (and non-religious) group that ISIS is against? ISTM that you are finding excuses to reject the condemnations. Does Israel’s condemnation of ISIS not meet your standards because it fails to mention the danger posed by ISIS to Sikhs and Jains?

I am sorry to break this to all of you, but the ratio of Muslim religious leaders who have condemned ISIS is very small.

And your evidence for this is? Where is your data?

The only Muslim country who has officially condemned ISIS is Indonesia.

I can already tell you that your data is incorrect. See Egypt condemns “ISIS” terrorism in Iraq:

Egypt condemned terrorism practiced by what is known as the organization of Islamic State in Iraq and the levant “ISIS” which led to the injury and deaths of many innocent civilians of the Iraqi people.

Egypt’s Foreign Ministry stressed in a statement on Tuesday that these terrorist crimes are completely incompatible with the teachings of Islamic religion. They are also against humanity and violating the rules of international humanitarian law.

Do not believe everything you see on whatever news site you are using. It is feeding you false information.

I don’t mean to be pessimistic, but this is the reality.

It is you who is detached from reality, as I have shown. Your source is giving you false information.

rossum

 

[Pythons]

It took me all of ten seconds to google “Fatwa against ISIS” to find this, Fatwa Against ISIS by the Syrian Islamic Council:

This organization (ISIS) has committed gross violations against the Sharia as well clear criminal actions which include the following:

1 – They infringed upon the Syrian people with their declaration of statehood without a respectable Sharia process, a clear vision, nor meaningful consultation be it in accordance with the Sharia or otherwise.

2 – They claim to be on the path of truth, and that those beside them are either disbelievers or misguided innovators. Consequently, based on these assumptions, they issued dangerous rulings.

3 – Extremism in issuing takfir, and subjecting the people to tribulations with regard to this. This has come to the point that accusations of takfir and treachery alongside death threats have no doubt become commonplace among the ranks of ISIS. Furthermore, some members of ISIS have even gone so far as to deem the general condition of Muslims in Syria as either that of disbelief or apostasy. There are even those amongst the organization who have deemed the regime [of al-Assad] and its followers more honourable than the freedom fighters and revolutionaries of Syria.

4 – They slander anyone who opposes them as either being a secret agent, or traitor, or as being a member of the [Anbar] Awakening movement [in Iraq], even if the individual was known to be honest and upright or among those who waged jihad against the Assad regime and its allies.

5 – Their insistence on referring matters of conflict and dispute to those who are subservient to ISIS and conform to its rule and their refusal to refer these matters to competent (and impartial) authorities of the Sharia.

6 – They engaged those mujahid battalions fighting against the tyrannical Assad regime with low-intensity conflicts in order to expand the sphere of their state and secure allegiance to it, while at the same time distracting from the fight against the common enemy. They further strove to obtain control over the joint economic and military gains obtained in the liberated territories after having stolen those assets from the mujahidin.

7 – They have deliberately attempted to confront and clash with various groups of mujahidin in Syria, and have involved themselves in the shedding of innocent blood, and have made light of this very grave matter.

8 – They have arrested mujahidin, and activists, journalists, and advocates [of the Syrian people’s cause], and have impeded relief efforts on the pretext of suspicious manners of acting or charges of betrayal and treason.

9 – They have committed treachery after having first offered security to the mujahidin and battlefield messengers and subsequently betraying many of them through arrests, torture, and killing. The news of the casualties of their treachery has circulated so rapidly that Syrians and non-Syrian both near and far from the conflict have become aware of it.

I suggest in future that you spend ten seconds searching first, before asking your question.

rossum

You should read that again and familiarize yourself a little better with Sharia Law…
…Where is the condemnation of the killing of Christians for failure to leave their homes?
…Where is the condemnation of the brutal acts committed against NON MUSLIMS.

Read my question again and attempt to answer it…
…There is NO FATWAH issued for ISIS being brutal against ‘other than Muslim people’.
…It’s directed against Muslims being brutal to fellow Muslims.

It’s a toothless Fatwah and doesn’t address the elements of the video link I provided in my post.

As a Buddhist you are familiar with what the Taliban did to the carvings in the side of all of those mountains in Afghanistan - are you not?

Better yet, move to the country where the fatwah you appealed to was issued & attempt to practice your “religion”. What do you think would happen?

 

[rafarose]

Yes. Does the Pope not think that ISIS is dangerous because he failed to condemn that danger that ISIS poses to atheists? Does every condemnation of ISIS have to include every other religious (and non-religious) group that ISIS is against? ISTM that you are finding excuses to reject the condemnations. Does Israel’s condemnation of ISIS not meet your standards because it fails to mention the danger posed by ISIS to Sikhs and Jains?
rossum;12281672:

So, thousands of Christian people who had lived there for 1600 years are told to leave their homes and thousands of Yazidis are terrorized while their daughters, sisters and wives are taken as sex slaves, and all the cleric had to say was that ISIS poses danger to Muslims and Islam? I really don’t mean to pick out this specific individual muslim leader. I have personally heard an amazing sheikh showing his support and solidarity for religious minorities. It’s not the condemnation I am entirely criticising, its the lack of practicality behind such condemnations. There is SO much more that the muslim community can do to stop ISIS actions, but various relevant muslims leaders still remain silent in both words and action. I hope that my comment is not taken too pessimistically but this is my criticism.

And your evidence for this is? Where is your data?

Yes, our Catholic parish priest who is also Iraqi and working closely with families displaced from Mosul reports that some muslim clerics are encouraging the actions of ISIS. While there is no raw data, this is direct report from Mosul families. The fact that you assume that no muslim cleric would ever support ISIS is questionable to me. So when ISIS members meet in mosques, where are the religious clerics to stop them? How about ISIS members-to be in Britian, US and other Western countries…how are they being trained?!

I should have clarified, by Indonesia taking an “official” stance, I mean that Indonesia has officially taken a legal stance against ISIS.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

There are several Muslims I gladly call as friends condemned such cruel & barbaric acts of ISIS. As a matter of fact, they told me the majority of ISIS are young & misguided by the higher hierarchy within ISIS, who are misinterpreting Islam to these people so as to accomplish their own political agendas.

Lets not forget that even Muslims are also victims. I choose to trust the people I call friends.

Uh, so saying that ISIS poses danger to ISLAM and MUSLIMS is speaking out against ISIS?? What about the religious minorities who are the only ones really suffering the most like the Christians and Yazidis?

“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.

Perhaps you are upset about the words above from the Muslim cleric because you somehow took it out of context. He was merely saying that Islam & Muslims are being exposed to danger because Islam’s image is being tarnished by ISIS, and that all Muslims around the world who are not involved with ISIS are in danger of being painted with a broad brush by everyone. There is no falsehood in what he said. Anyone who has their eyes open can already see how many Muslims are already being looked at with suspicious eyes & despised by many across the globe.

That statement alone does not make the Muslim cleric any less compassionate about the plight of Christians or any religious minorities than the Pope himself, and I refuse to believe that either.

Did you know that there are reports of muslim leaders supporting the actions of ISIS?

Do you have any source pertaining to those reports? Will be great so that I can take a look at it too.

The internet & media are filled with information, and a great deal of these information are not even true because their drive is money & to promote their own agendas.

There are a few news stations in America & around the world that have people who actually wanted nothing more than to promote the annihilation of Muslims, etc. A good example is Bill O’Reilly on Fox News Channel. He basically uses the media to promote his own agendas and 70% of everything that spews out of his rude & loud mouth are warped logic. The guy won’t even give you time to speak your opinion if it contradicts his agenda without humiliating you & shooting you down on TV. You can’t really trust anything you see or read without trying to discern the truth yourself.

Who and what is this invisible hand that seems to be ISIS’s backbone???!

Perhaps you are speculating that it is Islam, simply because of the reports of some black sheeps who are Muslim leaders supporting ISIS.

Let’s see it from your angle for a moment then & assume that even if there are a couple Muslims leaders who supports ISIS. That hardly represents Islam even. Look at the history of the Church & all its bloody murders & wars during that time. But does it represent Christianity, rafarose?

I get it that the cruel & bloody murders of adults & children alike are disturbing & painful to know or look at. I really get it. But to judge with such emotions & paint the majority of Islam with a broad brush who are innocent of the blood of these deaths, does not help but promote further feud & wars, more deaths & more bloody cruelty.

The root of the problem is ISIS, not Islam, dear friend.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

So, thousands of Christian people who had lived there for 1600 years are told to leave their homes and thousands of Yazidis are terrorized while their daughters, sisters and wives are taken as sex slaves, and all the cleric had to say was that ISIS poses danger to Muslims and Islam? I really don’t mean to pick out this specific individual muslim leader. I have personally heard an amazing sheikh showing his support and solidarity for religious minorities. It’s not the condemnation I am entirely criticising, its the lack of practicality behind such condemnations. There is SO much more that the muslim community can do to stop ISIS actions, but various relevant muslims leaders still remain silent in both words and action.

Imagine you being the cleric & your mosque(s)/institution(s) with all its followers being at risk for every word/act you decide on. Millions of lives, families & children hinged upon your every word & deed.

What do you think can be done that is more practical & more constructive to resolve the issue? Bear in mind that you are to speak & act during a time of fear, of endless wars, of countless bloody murders & rape. Think about it. How will you speak or act before people without further aggravating the problem and giving ISIS more reasons to lash out harder?

Yes, our Catholic parish priest who is also Iraqi and working closely with families displaced from Mosul reports that some muslim clerics are encouraging the actions of ISIS. While there is no raw data, this is direct report from Mosul families. The fact that you assume that no muslim cleric would ever support ISIS is questionable to me.

I will not deny that maybe some of these clerics supported ISIS, due to whatsoever reasons. Perhaps it has never occurred to you that the majority of these clerics are given a choice by ISIS to further their cause or die. Most of these clerics do not have the strength to deny life & choose death when facing such a choice.

Have you ever encountered a war yourself? If you do, you will realize that survival depends on every calculated word, thought & deed. Not just your own survival, but also the survival of your beloved family. If you have not, it is easy for us all that pass judgements without the need to bear any consequences.

So when ISIS members meet in mosques, where are the religious clerics to stop them?

How would these clerics know that some of these people are ISIS members? I don’t believe they wear blue spandex & red tight underwear that can be easily recognized. Since the mosques are sacred ground, I am sure they don’t carry weapons in during worship. Lets say that even they bring weapons along, do you dare confront them? And even if you dare, what about the community around you that is worshipping at the moment? Do you dare risk their lives?

How about ISIS members-to be in Britian, US and other Western countries…how are they being trained?!

Not hard at all when Iraqi’s black market in oil is funding ISIS approx USD$3 million daily. Money can buy you almost anything. Weapons, followers, soldiers, connections, etc.

edition.cnn.com/2014/08/18/business/al-khatteeb-isis-oil-iraq/

syriadeeply.org/articles/2014/07/5856/isis-3-million-day-selling-oil-analysts/

God Bless,
GuyNextDoor

 

[rossum]

So, thousands of Christian people who had lived there for 1600 years are told to leave their homes and thousands of Yazidis are terrorized while their daughters, sisters and wives are taken as sex slaves, and all the cleric had to say was that ISIS poses danger to Muslims and Islam?

The Pope’s statement failed to mention the ISIS persecution of atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, Taoists, Shintoists, Scientologists, Mormons and many other religions. Hence the Pope’s statement also fails to meet the standards you have set. Perhaps the problem is with your absurd standards?

Yes, our Catholic parish priest who is also Iraqi and working closely with families displaced from Mosul reports that some muslim clerics are encouraging the actions of ISIS.

I am sure that some Muslim clerics are doing that. Some Christian clerics in Northern Ireland encouraged the actions of the paramilitaries there. As with any large religion, or any large group of people, you will be able to find many different attitudes within the group.

However, your data on the ratio only comes from Iraq. I have data from Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia and other countries, where Muslim clerics condemn ISIS. I suggest that you look more widely for your data.

The fact that you assume that no muslim cleric would ever support ISIS is questionable to me.

I have never made that assumption. As with Northern Ireland, I expect an extremist minority of clerics to support the violence, and the great majority of clerics to condemn it.

rossum

 

[otterman]

There are several Muslims I gladly call as friends condemned such cruel & barbaric acts of ISIS. As a matter of fact, they told me the majority of ISIS are young & misguided by the higher hierarchy within ISIS, who are misinterpreting Islam to these people so as to accomplish their own political agendas.

Lets not forget that even Muslims are also victims. I choose to trust the people I call friends.

“An extremist and bloody group such as this poses a danger to Islam and Muslims, tarnishing its image as well as shedding blood and spreading corruption,” said Grand Mufti Shawqi Allam, Egypt’s most influential Muslim cleric, the state news agency MENA reported.

Perhaps you are upset about the words above from the Muslim cleric because you somehow took it out of context. He was merely saying that Islam & Muslims are being exposed to danger because Islam’s image is being tarnished by ISIS, and that all Muslims around the world who are not involved with ISIS are in danger of being painted with a broad brush by everyone. There is no falsehood in what he said. Anyone who has their eyes open can already see how many Muslims are already being looked at with suspicious eyes & despised by many across the globe.

That statement alone does not make the Muslim cleric any less compassionate about the plight of Christians or any religious minorities than the Pope himself, and I refuse to believe that either.

Do you have any source pertaining to those reports? Will be great so that I can take a look at it too.

The internet & media are filled with information, and a great deal of these information are not even true because their drive is money & to promote their own agendas.

There are a few news stations in America & around the world that have people who actually wanted nothing more than to promote the annihilation of Muslims, etc. A good example is Bill O’Reilly on Fox News Channel. He basically uses the media to promote his own agendas and 70% of everything that spews out of his rude & loud mouth are warped logic. The guy won’t even give you time to speak your opinion if it contradicts his agenda without humiliating you & shooting you down on TV. You can’t really trust anything you see or read without trying to discern the truth yourself.

Perhaps you are speculating that it is Islam, simply because of the reports of some black sheeps who are Muslim leaders supporting ISIS.

Let’s see it from your angle for a moment then & assume that even if there are a couple Muslims leaders who supports ISIS. That hardly represents Islam even. Look at the history of the Church & all its bloody murders & wars during that time. But does it represent Christianity, rafarose?

I get it that the cruel & bloody murders of adults & children alike are disturbing & painful to know or look at. I really get it. But to judge with such emotions & paint the majority of Islam with a broad brush who are innocent of the blood of these deaths, does not help but promote further feud & wars, more deaths & more bloody cruelty.

The root of the problem is ISIS, not Islam, dear friend.

As a matter of fact, they told me the majority of ISIS are young & misguided by the higher hierarchy within ISIS, who are misinterpreting Islam to these people so as to accomplish their own political agendas

Why are so many Muslims mis interpreting their faith, to the point they are motivated in the way that they are? And why are the Muslims who do supposedly know their faith, not giving them( and the world), the correct interpretations, for the benefit of all would be jihadists?

I have yet to hear Muslim clerics give the correct interpretation of their faith, to contradict the jihadists who allegedly mis represent their faith.

This of course will never happen, as all Muslims know the sole objective of their faith is to “conquer all lands for Allah”, so that all may be bound by his laws, i.e. the Shariah, just as it commands in the Quran, and ways and example of their prophet.

Using Tu Quoque does not work in this instance then, as no Christian can find authority in the N.T.that justifies violence in the name of God, unlike a Muslim, who can.