Have any Muslim clerics or entities condemned the killing of christians in Iraq?

[rossum]

Using Tu Quoque does not work in this instance then, as no Christian can find authority in the N.T.that justifies violence in the name of God, unlike a Muslim, who can.

I am sure that no Muslim can find incitements to violence in the NT either. Muslims can find such incitements in the Qur’an if they wish to do so. Christians can find such incitements in the OT if they wish to.

Sometimes scripture is not required at all, “I am your Pastor/Imam and you will do as I say because it is the will of God.”

Every major religion has its violent people, which does not justify the violence. It just shows that some people are violent and are looking for excuses to express it.

rossum

 

[otterman]

I am sure that no Muslim can find incitements to violence in the NT either. Muslims can find such incitements in the Qur’an if they wish to do so. Christians can find such incitements in the OT if they wish to.

Sometimes scripture is not required at all, “I am your Pastor/Imam and you will do as I say because it is the will of God.”

Every major religion has its violent people, which does not justify the violence. It just shows that some people are violent and are looking for excuses to express it.

rossum

Christians follow the ways and example of Jesus, a man of peace, who commanded to "love everyone as I have loved you " under the New Covenant, and spiritually combat the forces of evil.They are also obliged to follow the Ten Commandments held in the O.T.they are not obliged to follow the Old Covenant laws of the O.T.which were subject only to the Israelites.

Muslims follow the ways and example of Mohammed who commanded physical combat to bring “unbelievers in Allah” to submission to his laws, as does the Quran in verse 9.29

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Sahih Al Bukhari luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari_Book52.html

Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.​

Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has
the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and
property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to
forgive him.)"

Can you see the major difference?

 

[rossum]

Christians follow the ways and example of Jesus, a man of peace, who commanded to "love everyone as I have loved you " under the New Covenant, and spiritually combat the forces of evil.

Ideal Christians do so. Actual Christians sometimes do not, witness Northern Ireland, Srebrenica and many other historical examples.

If you compare the ideal of one religion with the grimy reality of another, then the ideal will always win out. Consider how many people have died because of the standard Christian interpretation of “You shall not allow a witch to live”. That was interpreted literally for the first 1,700 years of Christianity, and many people died because of it.

They are also obliged to follow the Ten Commandments held in the O.T.they are not obliged to follow the Old Covenant laws of the O.T.which were subject only to the Israelites.

And nowhere is there a definitive list of which parts of the OT are still relevant. The boundaries have moved over time, as with the example of Exodus 22:18 above.

As to the sayings of clerics, try “Kill them all, God will know his own.” Said by the Papal Legate, Abbot Amalric at the Siege of Béziers. Between 10,000 and 15,000 dead. The Crusaders were having difficulty telling the Catholic inhabitants from the Albigensian inhabitants of the town. Hence the Abbot’s advice.

You can always find something nasty if you look hard enough.

rossum

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Christians follow the ways and example of Jesus, a man of peace, who commanded to "love everyone as I have loved you " under the New Covenant, and spiritually combat the forces of evil.They are also obliged to follow the Ten Commandments held in the O.T.they are not obliged to follow the Old Covenant laws of the O.T.which were subject only to the Israelites.

Where was Jesus when the British Christians were occupying Iraq? Were was Jesus when American Christians and other Christians invaded and occupied Iraq again, leading to a death toll in the six figures? Apparently Jesus does not go everywhere “Christians” do.

 

[GuyNextDoor]

Why are so many Muslims mis interpreting their faith, to the point they are motivated in the way that they are?

If you are asking for my opinion, I would say its only logical that Islam, like Christianity have their own numerous denominations & non-denominations. We can all see how all the different denominations, non-denominations & sects do not share the same interpretation of the Scriptures & faith. The majority of the Muslims do not share the same interpretation. And no, to my best knowledge, they are not at all motivated in the same way as ISIS. That’s far from the truth and a huge lie that the media started, just because it is more newsworthy. To believe in it so readily is ignorance in its entirety.

And why are the Muslims who do supposedly know their faith, not giving them( and the world), the correct interpretations, for the benefit of all would be jihadists? I have yet to hear Muslim clerics give the correct interpretation of their faith, to contradict the jihadists who allegedly mis represent their faith.

There have been Muslim clerics correcting their followers & people around the world that Jihad in the Koran is only meant to be a spiritual war within oneself, not on human lives. Fact is, they have provided the correct interpretations to people but the media and most people won’t even buy it out of fear & suspicion of Muslims but that doesn’t erase the fact that they did come forward to speak the truth. Problem is, most people choose to be bias & think the worst of the whole world, instead of using common sense to discern the truth themselves without distorting it.

But that’s just my view. Anything else are pure speculations until cold-hard evidences are provided. I prefer to let the Holy Father to make the decision on this matter.

God Bless,
GuyNextDoor

 

[rossum]

There have been Muslim clerics correcting their followers & people around the world that Jihad in the Koran is only meant to be a spiritual war within oneself, not on human lives. Fact is, they have provided the correct interpretations to people but the media and most people won’t even buy it out of fear & suspicion of Muslims but that doesn’t erase the fact that they did come forward to speak the truth. Problem is, most people choose to be bias & think the worst of the whole world, instead of using common sense to discern the truth themselves without distorting it.

The word Jihad is similar to the word Crusade. A crusade could be violent, or it could be peaceful, like the Campus Crusade for Christ. Modern Christians mostly use the peaceful interpretation. Similarly modern Muslims.

rossum

 

[janeway529]

That would be something positive if true.

‘World’s top Muslim leaders condemn attacks on Iraqi Christians’
youtube.com/watch?v=ZA7rtob-IN8

Why are so many Muslims mis interpreting their faith, to the point they are motivated in the way that they are?

I have yet to hear Muslim clerics give the correct interpretation of their faith, to contradict the jihadists who allegedly mis represent their faith.

Because there is no “ONE correct interpretation” in Islam, much like in Judaism’s interpretation of Scripture. Islamic interpretation varies (for the most part) along two main historical factions: Sunni and Shia. Even within those two factions, interpretation of the Koran can also vary from one region and teacher of Islam to another.

 

[otterman]

If you are asking for my opinion, I would say its only logical that Islam, like Christianity have their own numerous denominations & non-denominations. We can all see how all the different denominations, non-denominations & sects do not share the same interpretation of the Scriptures & faith. The majority of the Muslims do not share the same interpretation. And no, to my best knowledge, they are not at all motivated in the same way as ISIS. That’s far from the truth and a huge lie that the media started, just because it is more newsworthy. To believe in it so readily is ignorance in its entirety.

There have been Muslim clerics correcting their followers & people around the world that Jihad in the Koran is only meant to be a spiritual war within oneself, not on human lives. Fact is, they have provided the correct interpretations to people but the media and most people won’t even buy it out of fear & suspicion of Muslims but that doesn’t erase the fact that they did come forward to speak the truth. Problem is, most people choose to be bias & think the worst of the whole world, instead of using common sense to discern the truth themselves without distorting it.

But that’s just my view. Anything else are pure speculations until cold-hard evidences are provided. I prefer to let the Holy Father to make the decision on this matter.

God Bless,
GuyNextDoor

Whilst it is true Islam does have its own denominations, and the majority of Muslims are peaceful people, it is equally true that they have a holy book, and role model prophet, to enable them to live in accordance with Allahs will.

However, Mohammed was a military leader, whose example commands Muslims to "fight in Allahs cause "to “proclaim Islam over all religion”

Quran 48.28
“It is He Who has sent His Apostle with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is God for a Witness.”

Quran 4:65—But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.

This "fighting "takes the form of physical combat towards those who do not accept Allah as their god,or Mohammed as their prophet, as all the authentic ahadiths prove,Bukhari being just one of them.

Sahih Al Bukhari luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari_Book52.html Named as:

“Fighting for the cause of Allah(Jihad)”

Just one of many verses showing Muslims how to perform authentic jihad.

Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.​

Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has
the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and
property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to
forgive him.)"

This is what Islamic jihadists are reading to give them the authority and motivation to do what they do, you may want to argue that they are misinterpreting these words, thereby giving a false impression of their faith, but they will argue back they have a divine right to” kill and get killed” (Quran 9.111) in their gods name, as their god and prophet’s example command it.

 

[otterman]

‘World’s top Muslim leaders condemn attacks on Iraqi Christians’
youtube.com/watch?v=ZA7rtob-IN8

Because there is no “ONE correct interpretation” in Islam, much like in Judaism’s interpretation of Scripture. Islamic interpretation varies (for the most part) along two main historical factions: Sunni and Shia. Even within those two factions, interpretation of the Koran can also vary from one region and teacher of Islam to another.

If it is true there is "no one correct interpretation in Islam "then this completely negates and proves the total inconsistency of the words written in Islam’s holy book, the Quran, which is said to contain Allahs literal, clear to understand, eternally binding guidance to mankind, as it does the words and example of its prophet, who correctly put into action Allahs words, for all Muslims to do the same.

The correct interpretation of Islam is to live in accordance with Allahs will following his words and prophets example, the objective of which is to bring all lands into submission to Allahs laws and regulations i.e the.Shariah

Following the words written in the Quran, as well as the example of its prophet this is to be achieved by fighting those who do not believe in Allah or accept Mohammed as his prophet, until they do.Quran 9.29 Quran 9.111

 

[otterman]

The word Jihad is similar to the word Crusade. A crusade could be violent, or it could be peaceful, like the Campus Crusade for Christ. Modern Christians mostly use the peaceful interpretation. Similarly modern Muslims.

rossum

The true meaning of the word jihad in Islam means to fight in Allahs cause, it does not mean to spiritually struggle, because this is not how the prophet of Islam put jihad into action.

Muslims are obliged to copy the example of their prophet to enable them to put Allahs will into action correctly, and the authentic ahadiths like Bukhari show them how.

Bukhari luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari_Book52.html

Named as:

“Fighting for the cause of Allah(Jihad)”

 

[rossum]

The true meaning of the word jihad in Islam means to fight in Allahs cause, it does not mean to spiritually struggle, because this is not how the prophet of Islam put jihad into action.

Muslims are obliged to copy the example of their prophet to enable them to put Allahs will into action correctly, and the authentic ahadiths like Bukhari show them how.

Bukhari luvu4luv.com/Hadith_Bukhari_Book52.html

Named as:

“Fighting for the cause of Allah(Jihad)”

Erm… You do realise that the Bukhari Hadith was collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, who died in 870 CE. That was before Christians launched the First Crusade. How relevant are quotes from Crusaders to modern Christianity? Perhaps I should quote from the Malleus Maleficarum (1486 CE) about how Christians should treat witches. That must be more relevant since it is more modern.

You need to be more careful about what sources you are using.

rossum

 

[otterman]

Erm… You do realise that the Bukhari Hadith was collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, who died in 870 CE. That was before Christians launched the First Crusade. How relevant are quotes from Crusaders to modern Christianity? Perhaps I should quote from the Malleus Maleficarum (1486 CE) about how Christians should treat witches. That must be more relevant since it is more modern.

You need to be more careful about what sources you are using.

rossum

Bukhari Hadith is used by Muslims to find out how to emulate their prophet, Muslims know this hadith is trustworthy because it is annotated with the prefix Sahih,denoting most reliable/truthful and so are confident in using it.

Your argument then is with those who read and trust these hadiths as part of their faith, not with the one quoting from them.

 

[rossum]

Bukhari Hadith is used by Muslims to find out how to emulate their prophet, Muslims know this hadith is trustworthy because it is annotated with the prefix Sahih,denoting most reliable/truthful and so are confident in using it.

The Bible is used by Christians to find out how to follow their God, Christians know the Bible is trustworthy because it is inspired by God and so are confident in using it.

The trustworthy Christian Bible tells Christians to kill witches. For 1700 years Christians followed that instruction. They no longer do so. Interpretations of old books change, even trustworthy old books. Show us some authoritative modern Muslim scholarship that supports your position. Otherwise you are in the position of someone who take witch burning and Westboro’ Baptist to be authoritative for all Christians everywhere.

Your argument then is with those who read and trust these hadiths as part of their faith, not with the one quoting from them.

Do you read the Bible as part of your faith? Do you read Exodus 22:18? Do you interpret that passage as it was interpreted for 1700 years? You are taking a Fundamentalist-type position, finding a verse or two to support your position and then ignoring all other relevant verses and scholarship that might contradict the stand you have taken.

You are not a Moslem scholar, any more than I am a Christian theologian. Your interpretation of the Qur’an and the Hadiths has as much value as my interpretation of the Bible. They say more about you than they do about Islam.

rossum

 

[dronald]

What’s a discussion about Islam without turning it into a discussion about Christianity?

“The Qur’an says beat your wives.” “Well I can misinterpret the Bible!”

“The Qur’an calls for the subjugation of Christians.” “Yeah but the OT!”

Commence thread off topic and closed.

If only Islam could stand on its own; I often wonder how Muslims debate Atheists. I’m reminded of when Bill Maher sat down with Brian Levin and Brian tried to bring up Christianity to the Atheist Bill. It’s quite comical if you want to look it up and are not easily offended.

 

[otterman]

The Bible is used by Christians to find out how to follow their God, Christians know the Bible is trustworthy because it is inspired by God and so are confident in using it.

The trustworthy Christian Bible tells Christians to kill witches. For 1700 years Christians followed that instruction. They no longer do so. Interpretations of old books change, even trustworthy old books. Show us some authoritative modern Muslim scholarship that supports your position. Otherwise you are in the position of someone who take witch burning and Westboro’ Baptist to be authoritative for all Christians everywhere.

Do you read the Bible as part of your faith? Do you read Exodus 22:18? Do you interpret that passage as it was interpreted for 1700 years? You are taking a Fundamentalist-type position, finding a verse or two to support your position and then ignoring all other relevant verses and scholarship that might contradict the stand you have taken.

You are not a Moslem scholar, any more than I am a Christian theologian. Your interpretation of the Qur’an and the Hadiths has as much value as my interpretation of the Bible. They say more about you than they do about Islam.

rossum

To try and divert the attention onto Christianity if futile, as Christians are obliged to follow the ways and example of Jesus, who is a man of peace. If they fail to do this, the fault lies with them, not with the man who they are following. No where in the N.T. does Jesus exhort his followers to fight and kill in His name, He commands only for us to use spiritual combat, against the forces of evil. The only part of the O.T.relevant to Christians are the Ten Commandments, and they command “treat all as you would be treated”

When Muslims look to their role model, they see a man who used physical combat to expand his message, which he did, following the commands found in his holy book. History tells us the first Muslims spread their faith by conquering armies, they got their authority to do this from reading the words in their holy book and emulating their prophets example, just as the jihadists are doing at present.

Its not my interpretation that matters, its how Muslims in the past, and present who have, and are interpreting their scriptures, which tell them to fight and kill in the name of their god.

If the violent Muslims are misinterpreting their scriptures, then the Quran is not as clear as it should be, indicating that it cannot come from the divine source it claims.

 

[dronald]

To try and divert the attention onto Christianity if futile, as Christians are obliged to follow the ways and example of Jesus, who is a man of peace. If they fail to do this, the fault lies with them, not with the man who they are following. No where in the N.T. does Jesus exhort his followers to fight and kill in His name, He commands only for us to use spiritual combat, against the forces of evil. The only part of the O.T.relevant to Christians are the Ten Commandments, and they command “treat all as you would be treated”

When Muslims look to their role model, they see a man who used physical combat to expand his message, which he did, following the commands found in his holy book. History tells us the first Muslims spread their faith by conquering armies, they got their authority to do this from reading the words in their holy book and emulating their prophets example, just as the jihadists today.

Its not my interpretation that matters, its how Muslims in the past, and present who have, and are interpreting their scriptures, which tell them to fight and kill in the name of their God.

If the violent Muslims are misinterpreting their scriptures, then the Quran is not as clear as it should be, indicating that it cannot come from the divine source it claims.

Yeah but the crusades and Inquisitions and westboro! A Christian even blew up an abortion clinic. Obviously the Religions are the same!