Have Apologetics ruined it for you?

[D_Quintero]

when i debate, i get so mad that people are making fun of our mother. I really just want to win arguments and not souls, can someone help me?

 

[Nan_S]

Grace and Glory:

At Mass, I do find myself getting irritated by people doing ‘wrong’ things during the Mass, but I have found the best remedy for this is to look at them and think, These people are probably far holier than I am, and though they may lack knowledge of what they should be doing, they probably have a much greater love in what they are doing.

It takes such a tiny hateful effort to criticize. Satan is very good at it. It takes much more love to look past another’s faults and see the good inside. That’s why Jesus insisted we do the latter.

I try to keep that in mind. It helps a lot.

 

[m134e5]

Jabronie:

More and more, I find myself focusing on defending and defining faith instead of practicing faith. What I mean, is it seams like I’d rather read Church history than simply pray. Does anyone else here feel like they’ve become more of a student than a desciple?

Defending the Faith pretty much boils down to how much book knowledge you have. That’s easy (comparitively)- just read, get your facts, and learn how to debate. Practicing the Faith is difficult- you may know what’s right, but it’s not always easy to do it. We all have weaknesses- we all mess up sometimes. We cannot always find a tangible answer to our weaknesses- other then the Sacraments- which, even though you can physically experience a certain aspect of them, they require faith to believe what they are. Practicing the Faith often requires doing things (or not doing things) that go against what we are tempted to do (not to lie, not to cheat, not to steal, to stop and pray about a situation when hope seems to be fading fast, etc.). Basically, we like to do what’s easier, so it’s tempting to focus on appologetics more than spiritual growth.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Nan S:

According to people who know better than me, during Mass the Orans position is reserved for the clergy’s use only. You see it especially at the beginning of the Eucharistic prayer

I once read in a Missalette that it was (now?) OK for the laity to hold their hands out during Our Father. I usually don’t do it, but I do once in a while.

But here in the south, the “community holding-hands Orans” gesture during the doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer has been in use for so long that it has taken permanent root.

This holding hands things during the Our Father really bugs me. I was not actively in the Church when it became popular, so I came back and wondered “what is all this gay stuff going on?” (Of course, using “gay” as a general purpose pejorative term I learned from my kids.)

Luckily, since I play piano and organ at Church, I can arrange my position prior to Our Father so in the unusual event I get one of “those” behind the organ, I have the option of fumbling with my music a little (behind the organ to congregation isn’t distracted) to get it ready for the Lamb of God, or otherwise position myself out of reach.

Maybe it’s not Christian, but in the unusual situation I get caught holding hands during Our Father, I’ll be darned if I’m going to then “raise my hands up” during the doxology without intentionally (but subtlely if it isn’t my own kids) fighting the other person’s urge to lift. Sorry but I can just be so open-minded, then at some point I have to realize I feel and look like an idiot so my ego has to do something to fight it.

This may be my own baggage from the mother of my Lutheran friend who used to brag her son said a longer Our Father than I did, (plus some Bibles have footnotes that say the “kingdom power glory” stuff was added in by some monk and really isn’t authentic anyway) and to me raising the hands during that part brings feelings (not necessarily the memories themselves) of being put down, and here we are in the Church doing something seemingly as Protestant as possible, then raising our hands in glory to That Part where we, IMO, do homage to Protestants. As I said, this is my own baggage so take it FWIW.

Alan

 

[reen12]

Hi, Jabronie,

quote:** Jabronie**

More and more, I find myself focusing on defending and defining faith instead of practicing faith. What I mean, is it seams like I’d rather read Church history than simply pray. Does anyone else here feel like they’ve become more of a student than a desciple?

Yes, I do find that I spend a lot of time reading
about different faiths, and the various denominational
stances.
When I do that, I “find” less time for prayer.

Funny you brought the topic up. I’ve been
thinking about that, too, over the last several
days.

I also find that debating people sometimes results
in my experiencing a nasty frame of mind…which is hardly conducive to prayer- [and unlike my day to day ol’ self.]

We’re on different sides of the fence, theologically,
Jabronie, but I do understand, full well, what you’re talking about.

Thanks for bringing the topic to our attention.

Best,
reen12

 

[ICXCNIKA]

When I first returned to the Church I spent most of my time reading apologetics. Even as I read spiritual books I kept thinking of things from them in defense of the faith.

I do this less now. I think that one of the best things we can do to “witness” is to live a Christ centered life.

Also, it seems that much of the time on my Catholic radio staion is taken up with one apologetics show after another. Defending the faith is only a fraction of being Catholic.

 

[LSK]

Jabronie:

I would be 100% in agreement with that statement, but sometimes I find that I’m just wasting time spend too much focus on some of the rules. For example, lately I’ve been catching myself looking around the church to see who does Oran’s during Our Father (and then getting annoyed about it) instead of just PRAYING the Lord’s Prayer. Due to everything I learn here, I also sometimes get a little arrogant feeling that I “know more” about the faith that most Catholics.

I do like the idea of when feeling “burned out” on apologetics to just go to perpetual adortation and relax a bit.

Jabroinie, you are right - go to Adoration. Ask the Lord Jesus to give you strength and the grace to continue. This is a tough road, and may be your cross, but the gifts are enormous. So take your time, go an spend time with Our Lord and RE-ENERGIZE:dancing:

 

[Sgt_Sweaters]

Honestly, this was my problem (putting the abstract before the concrete) until I discovered Catholicism. The Church has made my faith more real, my prayer life richer, and my outlook more positive.

Maybe it’s because in Protestantism there is such a limited understanding of God and His Kingdom, and I was frustrated in that way…

 

[ComradeAndrei]

This may be my own baggage from the mother of my Lutheran friend who used to brag her son said a longer Our Father than I did, (plus some Bibles have footnotes that say the “kingdom power glory” stuff was added in by some monk and really isn’t authentic anyway) and to me raising the hands during that part brings feelings (not necessarily the memories themselves) of being put down, and here we are in the Church doing something seemingly as Protestant as possible, then raising our hands in glory to That Part where we, IMO, do homage to Protestants. As I said, this is my own baggage so take it FWIW.

I for one, am totally against the “protestant” stuff that some people pull at Mass. I hate when someone tries to hold my hand during the Our Father or when priests encourage it. I’m sure they think it is an innocent little gesture, and maybe it is, but I don’t care. It is too protestant to be doing at Catholic Mass. If you want to do that stuff at home, so be it but not at Mass.