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Seamus_L
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That is, AFTER 1596 in Eastern Europe. Not sure of some of the exact years of reunion in the Middle East, but I Apply the question to them as well.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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We have a shared heritage and tradition, I do not understand your question.
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Seamus_L
Guest
In the time since various Eastern Churches have returned to Communion with Rome, have any of them adopted devotions from the Orthodox who are not in Communion. This is why I asked if any were adopted in Eastern Europe after 1596.
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malphono
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As ByzCath said, there is a shared heritage and tradition. Are you looking for something to use as an argument in favor of latinizations? If not, then maybe I’m dense, but I still don’t understand the question. 
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Seamus_L
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I’m asking if any devotions originating among those Orthodox who were not in Communion with the Pope, have been adopted by Eastern Catholics. I mentioned 1596 because it was the only date I was sure of off hand, but I still apply the question to other Eastern Catholic Churches.
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malphono
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Well, I guess I’m a lost cause. Maybe someone else will take the bait.
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Diak
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I think Malphono’s suspicions are well placed - speaking of bait, looks like a polemic fishing trip is underway.
In any case the question is not sensible given the Instruction from Rome compels us as Eastern Catholics to minimize any differences in liturgical usage with the corresponding Orthodox sister Church.
If you want traditional Latin Catholicism, find a Tridentine Mass. Leave us alone.
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Seamus_L
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In Apologetics you’re going to get difficult questions.
Honestly, I don't know the answer to my own question. Part of me says the answer must be yes, while the other part says things got pretty ugly between EC's and the Orthodox in Eastern Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries. Peter the Great had a psychopathic hatred of Uniates, and Catherine the Great was none too fond of them either.
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Ghosty
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I’m not aware of any Eastern Orthodox devotions that have arisen after Reunion; they all existed prior to the reunion of Eastern Catholic Churches, so there hasn’t been any “adoption” of new devotions.
Peace and God bless!
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Diak
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Considering your other historical statements and sympathies on other threads, you are going to have to be a bit more convincing of the genuity of your intentions and questions other than diffusing those to “difficult apologetics”. Your questions have nothing to do with Catholic apologetics whatsoever, eastern or western, northern or southern for that matter.
Unitatis Redintegratio is clear about the catholic and apostolic nature of the lex orandi of Orthodoxy, at least as it existed in 1965 when the document was promulgated. Orientalium Ecclesiarum, Orientale Lumen, Slavorum Apostoli up to the Instruction from Rome as well as ample other Magisterial documents and guidance have reiterated this very basic concept since then. Any adoption, if indeed it has happened, is a completely null point - you seem to want to skirt around what Rome has stated in the Instruction that we minimize differences in liturgical usage with our sister Orthodox churches.
From a purely Catholic apologetic standpoint the question is not sensible or relevant given the preponderance of Magisterial teaching in this regard. Better get a bigger microscope to split those hairs.
Unitatis Redintegratio is clear about the catholic and apostolic nature of the lex orandi of Orthodoxy, at least as it existed in 1965 when the document was promulgated. Orientalium Ecclesiarum, Orientale Lumen, Slavorum Apostoli up to the Instruction from Rome as well as ample other Magisterial documents and guidance have reiterated this very basic concept since then. Any adoption, if indeed it has happened, is a completely null point - you seem to want to skirt around what Rome has stated in the Instruction that we minimize differences in liturgical usage with our sister Orthodox churches.
From a purely Catholic apologetic standpoint the question is not sensible or relevant given the preponderance of Magisterial teaching in this regard. Better get a bigger microscope to split those hairs.
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bpbasilphx
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The history of Western spirituality is littered with devotions that were at one time popular and later discarded.
This has never been the case in the Byzantine tradition. (I’m in no position to speak about the others.)
Just where do you think the Eastern Catholics got their Eastern devotions to start with?
This has never been the case in the Byzantine tradition. (I’m in no position to speak about the others.)
Just where do you think the Eastern Catholics got their Eastern devotions to start with?
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Hesychios
Guest
I think the original question was a sincere one.
It is fair for someone to ask whether the EC have been adopting new devotions foreign to them. The thing is, none of us can think (offhand) of any major eastern devotions that arose during the second millenium.
I might be stepping on a land mine here, because it *could possibly *reinforce that “stagnant” stereotype for people who want to see such things. But the question itself is a fair one taken at face value.
I recall one condition advanced in the proposal for union at Brest:
#31 …when the Lord God by His will and holy grace shall permit the rest of our brothers of the Eastern Church of the Greek tradition to come to the holy unity with the Western Church, and later in this common union and by the permission of the Universal Church there should be any change in the ceremonies and Typicon of the Greek Church, we shall share all this as people of the same religion.
I don’t know if I am reading this right, but it seems to me as though the bishops of this agreement were conscious of the possibility that custom and ceremonial of the Orthodox could change in the future, before further reunions should happen. They seem to have wanted to be assured that they would share in these and not be separated from the remaining Orthodox by divergent traditional practices.
Michael
It is fair for someone to ask whether the EC have been adopting new devotions foreign to them. The thing is, none of us can think (offhand) of any major eastern devotions that arose during the second millenium.
I might be stepping on a land mine here, because it *could possibly *reinforce that “stagnant” stereotype for people who want to see such things. But the question itself is a fair one taken at face value.
I recall one condition advanced in the proposal for union at Brest:
#31 …when the Lord God by His will and holy grace shall permit the rest of our brothers of the Eastern Church of the Greek tradition to come to the holy unity with the Western Church, and later in this common union and by the permission of the Universal Church there should be any change in the ceremonies and Typicon of the Greek Church, we shall share all this as people of the same religion.
I don’t know if I am reading this right, but it seems to me as though the bishops of this agreement were conscious of the possibility that custom and ceremonial of the Orthodox could change in the future, before further reunions should happen. They seem to have wanted to be assured that they would share in these and not be separated from the remaining Orthodox by divergent traditional practices.
Michael
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Deacon_Lance
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The simple answer to your question is no. The more complicated answer is the Eastern never had “private devotions” that were seperated from the the Liturgy which is pretty much a Latin phenomina. Even those Liturgical units most popular in private use, Akathists and Canons, are really parts of the Office meant to be included in Compline and Matins respectively.
Now given that Eastern Catholics at times abandoned their own services and adopted Latin or Latin-inspired devotions and are now returning to their native traditions and in the process abandoning Latin ones it may appear that they are adopting Orthodox practices but in reality they are only returning to what was always part of their patrimony but was ignored.
Fr. Deacon Lance
Now given that Eastern Catholics at times abandoned their own services and adopted Latin or Latin-inspired devotions and are now returning to their native traditions and in the process abandoning Latin ones it may appear that they are adopting Orthodox practices but in reality they are only returning to what was always part of their patrimony but was ignored.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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Ignatios
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Peace to you all,
All I see in the above is, that Seamus is not well acquainted with the history of our brothers and sisters (though separated) in the ECC.
First, the ECC in particular the Byzantine Catholic rites, were Orthodox who chose to unite with Rome, So there is no adoption here, part of their agreement to unite with the Pope was that to keep their liturgy, devotions if you will, theology etc…
The Only adoption came to those Rites it was the Latinization, and that was after the unifications with rome, in which it was foreign to their Orthodox roots, some were latinized more than others such as the Maronites and the least of them were the Melkites where they( the Melkites) in many instances stood Rome to the face defending their Orthodox roots ( such was the case in Vatican II)
So your question is based on wrong understanding of those Rites, I suggest to read their history from both sides in particular the history of the Ukrainians and the Melkites.
GOD bless †††
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Aramis
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There is very little to grab… with a few notable exceptions and Latinizations, the Orthodox praxis and the Byzantine Catholic Praxis are the same.
Including the devotional praxis.
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Seamus_L
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I’m getting the impression Eastern Catholic Churches have no room for new devotions of any kind. Is this correct ? Outside of a monastery though, would the full schedule be performed.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Its not that there is no room for them, I just do not think any are necessary.
Some people have added their own private devotions but those are private and a person is free to add any private devotions that they wish, but we have a rich heritage and tradition that does not need any “new” devotions.
I put the word new in quotes because are there really any “new” devotions out there?
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Deacon_Lance
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Yes. Until parishes/people celebrate at least Matins and Vespers daily there is no room; because if you aren’t at least doing those you have no business adding something else.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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Seamus_L
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Wouldn’t certain Akathists be the newest devotions ?
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Deacon_Lance
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Akathists are public liturgical services not devotions.
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