Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement?

[Mannyfit75]

Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement? In the 1990s many HARDCORE Christian Fundamentalists were involved in terrorists acts against abortion clinics.

The Catholic Church teaches strongly against using violence to stop another immoral act. There needs to be a universal Christian understanding by all Christians that killing abortion doctors or bombing clinics are unjustified.

Life begins at the moment of conception and ends at natural death. Let me repeat, ends at natural death. We all need to united against abortion but we cannot as Christians use violence. Jesus said, “if someone strikes you, give him your other cheek as well.”

 

[1ke]

Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement? In the 1990s many HARDCORE Christian Fundamentalists were involved in terrorists acts against abortion clinics.

Show me the proof that there were **many ** violent acts against abortion clinics and **many **people involved.

Any violent action against abortion clinics or doctors is wrong. However, you need to be accurate in your statements. And, I do not believe you are being accurate when you state many people were involved in “terrorist acts” agains abortion.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Show me the proof that there were **many ** violent acts against abortion clinics and **many **people involved.

Any violent action against abortion clinics or doctors is wrong. However, you need to be accurate in your statements. And, I do not believe you are being accurate when you state many people were involved in “terrorist acts” agains abortion.

Here are some statistics.

There were 1,700 acts of violence against abortion providers between 1977 and 1994, with four people killed in 1994 and one in 1993, according to statistics from the National Abortion Federation.

And where are more numbers. These acts are consider domestic terrorists. Many are suspected be committed by hardcore Evangelical Christians from the Protestant faith who do not like abortion and will use all means necessary to end it. I would like to add that some of these actions were also committed by a Catholic.

Feel free to do the research yourself on attacks against abortion clinics.

I do not think attacking abortion clinics help against our fight against abortion. Peaceful means must be used to convince people the immorality of killing the unborn.

Source: msnbc.com/modules/clinics/

religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

These attacks have not ended. A recent act was an arson at an abortion clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico on December 6, 2007.

Source Article: nytimes.com/2007/12/28/us/28albuquerque.html

 

[1ke]

Then be fair and call out all the domestic pro-abortion terrorists who have assaulted pro-lifers.

 

[1ke]

I don’t see the numbers you posted as “many” people involved. With millions of pro-life activists in America 1,700 over 40 years is not “many.”

 

[spoiltvictorian]

I know a young priest who drove his car into the wall of an abortuary.

The Catholic Church teaches strongly against using violence to stop another immoral act.

Is this true? Surely Rome would allow me to defend my family during a break-in.

 

[ralphinal]

I know a young priest who drove his car into the wall of an abortuary.

Is this true? Surely Rome would allow me to defend my family during a break-in.

They would. Now, the Church would say that you would need to be sure that there was a threat to you and only use that force needed to defend youself, but those are judgement calls. That would not be an issue at all. What would be an issue is if you used violence to keep your neighbor from having an affair with another woman.

 

[ralphinal]

If we assume that on any day there are 100 people protesting abortion clinics, that means that since 1973 there have been, give or take, 1.2 million protesters. That would make 1700 incedents exceptionally small.

However, the media BLOWS that WAY out of proportion. Each incedent is presented as a common event or part of a larger conspiracy. Neither of which is true.

Now, can I say that Fundamentalists have messed us up? No, but I can say that the small group that thinks this was a good idea should have known how these events would be presented.

 

[Lil_Cat]

Have Fundamentalists distorted the Pro-Life Movement? In the 1990s many HARDCORE Christian Fundamentalists were involved in terrorists acts against abortion clinics.

The Catholic Church teaches strongly against using violence to stop another immoral act. There needs to be a universal Christian understanding by all Christians that killing abortion doctors or bombing clinics are unjustified.

Life begins at the moment of conception and ends at natural death. Let me repeat, ends at natural death. We all need to united against abortion but we cannot as Christians use violence. Jesus said, “if someone strikes you, give him your other cheek as well.”

Whoa, when was the last time you heard of anyone bombing an abortion clinic? With all the problems in the world today, the day after the election (although I see you started this thread the day before the election), I fail to see your point in bringing up something that is no longer an issue other than to smear fundamentalists. If this was not your intent, I ask you what your intent is.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

They would. Now, the Church would say that you would need to be sure that there was a threat to you and only use that force needed to defend youself, but those are judgement calls. That would not be an issue at all. What would be an issue is if you used violence to keep your neighbor from having an affair with another woman.

Is the difference that I am responsible for my family but not my neighbor? Also, I think murder is worse than adultery.

 

[flameburns623]

Here are some statistics.

There were 1,700 acts of violence against abortion providers between 1977 and 1994, with four people killed in 1994 and one in 1993, according to statistics from the National Abortion Federation.

And where are more numbers. These acts are consider domestic terrorists. Many are suspected be committed by hardcore Evangelical Christians from the Protestant faith who do not like abortion and will use all means necessary to end it. I would like to add that some of these actions were also committed by a Catholic.

Feel free to do the research yourself on attacks against abortion clinics.

I do not think attacking abortion clinics help against our fight against abortion. Peaceful means must be used to convince people the immorality of killing the unborn.

Source: msnbc.com/modules/clinics/

religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

These attacks have not ended. A recent act was an arson at an abortion clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico on December 6, 2007.

Source Article: nytimes.com/2007/12/28/us/28albuquerque.html

It needs to be pointed out that there is a definition problem with how these numbers are tabulated. Very often, the ‘act of violence’ starts with someone on the pro-choice side hurling very vivid insults to one of the pro-lifer persons, and a verbal melee results in a scuffle–literally a pushing-shoving match. This becomes an ‘act of violence’ counted against the pro-life movement. It is wrongly tabulated because the numbers:

1. Do not take into account who initiated the inflammatory verbal exchange;
2. Do not take into consideration whether the first physical act was initiated by the pro-life or the pro-choice subject(s);

and,

1. Do not count nor keep tabs of episodes of violence initiated by pro-choice advocates against pro-life protesters.

That is to say: there is a definite bias in how the numbers are tabulated which skews those numbers to suggest that it is the pro-life side which is prone to hatred or violence. An even-handed approach would not only lower these statistics but reflect that there are also acts of violence being perpetuated by pro-choice partisans against their pro-life critics. I believe some efforts are made by the pro-life movement to tabulate such things, but their numbers are treated as ‘suspect’ because they are not tabulated by an ‘independent’ or ‘impartial’ source such as the media presumes itself, wrongly, to be.

None of which justifies the use of violence or abusive behavior on the part of the pro-life movement. It simply suggests that the numbers–already minuscule in relation to the number of actual protesters and protesters out there–are inflated and skewed.

 

[Soutane]

Is the difference that I am responsible for my family but not my neighbor? Also, I think murder is worse than adultery.

A mortal sin is a mortal sin.BOTH will deny us Christ if unrepented.The EFFECTS of murder are worse than the Effects of adultery.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Here are some statistics.

There were 1,700 acts of violence against abortion providers between 1977 and 1994, with four people killed in 1994 and one in 1993, according to statistics from the National Abortion Federation.

And where are more numbers. These acts are consider domestic terrorists. Many are suspected be committed by hardcore Evangelical Christians from the Protestant faith who do not like abortion and will use all means necessary to end it. I would like to add that some of these actions were also committed by a Catholic.

Feel free to do the research yourself on attacks against abortion clinics.

I do not think attacking abortion clinics help against our fight against abortion. Peaceful means must be used to convince people the immorality of killing the unborn.

Source: msnbc.com/modules/clinics/

religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm

These attacks have not ended. A recent act was an arson at an abortion clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico on December 6, 2007.

Source Article: nytimes.com/2007/12/28/us/28albuquerque.html

The definition of “violence” is critical. For example, pro-abortion organizations count trespassing as an act of violence (which in fact accounts for about a third of the recorded acts). The actual number of acts which posed a serious risk of bodily injury or death are much, much smaller (for example, for the 1977-1994 period I count 407 such incidents).

More to the point, there’s been very little on the most violent crime since the late 90’s. Don’t take my word for it though, here are the detailed statistics for you to check out for yourself:

prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/violence_statistics.pdf

Don’t take any of this as condoning this behavior by any means, I simply question the relevance of the late 90s wave of abortion clinic violence to recent events…given the facts it really comes across more like you’re looking for an excuse to tar the term Fundamentalist than anything else.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

A mortal sin is a mortal sin.BOTH will deny us Christ if unrepented.The EFFECTS of murder are worse than the Effects of adultery.

Yes, I understand that. But as Thomas Aquinas would tell you, there is the sin and there is the matter of the sin. While the sins are equal before God, the matter of abortion, a cold-blooded murder of a completely helpless person, is worse than the matter of any adultery or lesser murder.

 

[ralphinal]

Is the difference that I am responsible for my family but not my neighbor? Also, I think murder is worse than adultery.

That is NOT what I am saying. You have no right to kill anyone. You cannot commit violence against people for any reason short of legal self-protection. Murder is worse in a way as it places the killer in the place of God. Adultry destroyes lives as well.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Ralph, I could use violence to keep someone from killing my children, right? That goes beyond protecting myself. The difference between protecting my children, protecting a friend/neighbor and protecting a neighbor’s child is not much.

If the difference is that burglary is illegal and abortion is legal, ok, but some point along the path to wickedness the law must begin to directly contradict God’s law. At that point, don’t we Christians have a duty to break the law?

That is NOT what I am saying. You have no right to kill anyone. You cannot commit violence against people for any reason short of legal self-protection. Murder is worse in a way as it places the killer in the place of God. Adultry destroyes lives as well.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t see the numbers you posted as “many” people involved. With millions of pro-life activists in America 1,700 over 40 years is not “many.”

1,700 is many. Any single digits is not many.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I know a young priest who drove his car into the wall of an abortuary.

The young priest is wrong do what he did. The Catholic Church affirms from the Catechism in plain English:

2258 “Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being.”

Is this true? Surely Rome would allow me to defend my family during a break-in.

 

[spoiltvictorian]

Well, that is a good point, Manny. Bombing an abortion clinic is much more than necessary force. But what about, say, physically preventing a doctor who has scheduled ten abortions for the day from entering his office? It would surely result in a battery charge, but lives might be saved.

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph, I could use violence to keep someone from killing my children, right? That goes beyond protecting myself. The difference between protecting my children, protecting a friend/neighbor and protecting a neighbor’s child is not much.

If the difference is that burglary is illegal and abortion is legal, ok, but some point along the path to wickedness the law must begin to directly contradict God’s law. At that point, don’t we Christians have a duty to break the law?

Actually, the Church would not allow you to use force just on a break in. You would need to be sure that your lives were in danger. As much as I love my stuff, it is not the same.

Yes, we have a duty to fight laws that are not in accord with God’s laws. However, that does not mean that we can break the good ones to do so.

As lothsome as abortion is to me, and trust me, I am as anti0abortion as one can be, I cannot condone violence against abortion providers or their stuff.

Besides, I agree that this thread is problematic.